While he is finally *really* starting to try to
understand Ruby, he's still not doing the single thing that will
help him understand Ruby most: writing a substantive program.
Very true. I've been trying subtle hints in this direction with my recent replies to him, but he clearly isn't interested.
For all that,
though, he is asking interesting questions from which people can
learn -- if he'd only bother to listen to the answers provided.
Well put.
In the beginning, his attitude turned me off to helping him immediately. I just skimmed his threads for some time after that.
However, I agree with Austin that he has recently begun to ask interesting questions and seriously explore Ruby. At that time, I decided to try providing a little help and guidance. This is all happening in the public eye and we want to maintain our reputation for being wonderfully helpful, right?
That said, he has again frustrated me and I've stopped responding. Perhaps he truly is a lost cause.
James Edward Gray II
···
On Apr 5, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Austin Ziegler wrote:
Actually, I was a bit alarmed there, when I first read the site the
first two lines say:
"Mad people of comp.lang.lisp
Why?"
I was concerned for a moment that they were picking on "The Lucky Stiff"!!!
···
On Apr 5, 2005 3:36 PM, Brian McCallister <brianm@apache.org> wrote:
> On Apr 5, 2005, at 6:18 AM, B. K. Oxley (binkley) wrote:
>
> > Why the pile-on for this fellow?
>
> Ilias is a famous troll, crossing languages and tools for years.
>
> http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html
>
> -Brian
>
>
--
All the best
Glenn
Aylesbury, UK
--
All the best
Glenn
Aylesbury, UK
Yep, he's made a decent effort at organising and presenting his
questions (and the answers on the website) properly. For all his
annoyingnesses, he has a very good point about his questionnaire being a
valuable newbie resource, so I do make an effort to contribute to it (my
personal threshold is the first time he demands a thead stay on topic -
when he does that I stop responding to it).
martin
···
Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:
Ilias may not be a troll, but he has certainly acted like one; if
he's not a troll, his style and people-skills certainly need work,
as he *is* wearing on the patience of some people. For all that,
though, he is asking interesting questions from which people can
learn -- if he'd only bother to listen to the answers provided. This
is more than can be said for some past denizens of ruby-talk.
But he doesn't seem very dynamic.
···
In message <20050405184822.GA22812@homer.bertram-scharpf>, Bertram Scharpf <lists@bertram-scharpf.de> writes
Ruby is a first class language and it deserves first class
trolls.
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
Its ok, I asked the people who run the internet to reopen it.
···
On Apr 6, 2005 12:18 PM, Bill Guindon <agorilla@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 5, 2005 9:58 PM, Luke Graham <spoooq@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 5, 2005 8:18 PM, B. K. Oxley (binkley) <binkley@alumni.rice.edu> wrote:
> > Luke Graham wrote:
> > > Could it be??? Shouldnt the flash have turned it to stone???
> > >
> > > If you follow the link to his coach, you will notice he worked for S+M
> > > Components...
> > > nothin suss! 
I think hed have to enjoy S&M to take Ilias on as a student.
> >
> > I'm new to ruby-talk. Why the pile-on for this fellow? I looked
> > through some of the material linked, and his most recent posts since I
> > joined, and he seems "mostly harmless" (in the words of Douglas Adams).
> >
> > I thought Ruby was the language for nice people. Why all the snippy
> > remarks?
>
> Others have explained their points of view in this thread already, but
> I want to give my position, seeing as I was the one being nasty.
>
> Ilias is a chronic time-waster. He may not be a troll in the true
> sense of the word, but the effect is the same. The few posts Ive made
> -about- him pale in comparison to the list traffic -to-
> and -from- him, however it is true that threads like this one are part
> of his success. The only way to win is to not play, and I dont believe
> this list is ready to do that yet, so I dont see any harm in a couple
> more mails. I know thats an illogical view, and that every post I make
> adds victory points to his score, but Im only human and dont always
> make sense.
>
> For me, the biggest effect he has is to cause a sense of wonder that
> bright people like JEG2 would waste even a minute of their lives
> responding to him, once they realised what he was. After a few minutes
> of research, its obvious that even his more interesting questions act
> as lures to keep the threads going until "closed". I saw a post where
> he mentioned something about someone acting as a "cyber-doctor", so I
> guess hes been remotely analysed many times, but I think in the end
> hes probably just lonely and confused. It doesnt make him any less
> irritating.
>
> --
> spooq
>
>
I admire JEG2 for politely replying (when it makes sense), and wish I
could be that generous myself. The thread has brought up some good
points.
back to Ilias mode...
This thread was closed many posts back. You must not continue to post to it!
--
spooq
I'm wondering if it's posible to call OpenSchema with more complex
parameters.
@con = WIN32OLE.new('ADODB.Connection')
@con.open("Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=#{ruta};") May be
like with perl:
@rs =@con.OpenSchema(4, [nil,nil,"tab00200"])---> error I try too:
@rs =@con._invoke(@con.ole_method('OpenSchema').dispid,
[4, [nil,nil,"tab00200"]],
[VT_UI2, VT_ARRAY|VT_VARIANT]
)
Error too...
I don't know if it's posible to do this!!
Thanks.(I'm sorry, my english is bad)
Julio Fernández
>more mails. I know thats an illogical view, and that every post I make
>adds victory points to his score, but Im only human and dont always
>make sense.
After reading the above I've got this mental image of a guy playing a
video game where he loses a life for every thread closed and gains
points for every reply and a free life for every *PLONK*. Kind of like a
FPS for trolls. I can't see his face only the back of his head and the
video screen in front of him. Kind of looks like Pacland for some
reason, but there was no shooting in that game.
Im considering more of a civilization-style, turn-based game... I
mean, you have to wait for the other person to post, ie make their
turn. Careful management of resources will give you lots of posts to
harvest.
I played Pacland a few times because it was so wierd and bad. I
couldnt quite believe what Pacman had become, perhaps Mrs Pacman drove
him to it? Very similar to SMB2 in its sense of
dream-like/nightmare-like simultaneous familiarity and strangeness.
SMB2 started out as a different game, then had the Mario sprites
pasted on it. The following link explains things fully...
Thanks for the imagery. I had never thought of trolls like that before.
Youre welcome
···
On Apr 6, 2005 7:19 PM, Stephen Kellett <snail@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
In message <c6afaed005040518582d2bca81@mail.gmail.com>, Luke Graham > <spoooq@gmail.com> writes
--
spooq
I no longer have time for this off-topic discusstion. I'm closing this thread.
···
On Apr 5, 2005 10:27 AM, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:
On Apr 5, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Austin Ziegler wrote:
> While he is finally *really* starting to try to
> understand Ruby, he's still not doing the single thing that will
> help him understand Ruby most: writing a substantive program.
Very true. I've been trying subtle hints in this direction with my
recent replies to him, but he clearly isn't interested.
> For all that,
> though, he is asking interesting questions from which people can
> learn -- if he'd only bother to listen to the answers provided.
Well put.
In the beginning, his attitude turned me off to helping him
immediately. I just skimmed his threads for some time after that.
However, I agree with Austin that he has recently begun to ask
interesting questions and seriously explore Ruby. At that time, I
decided to try providing a little help and guidance. This is all
happening in the public eye and we want to maintain our reputation for
being wonderfully helpful, right?
That said, he has again frustrated me and I've stopped responding.
Perhaps he truly is a lost cause.
--
Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)
B. K. Oxley (binkley) wrote:
Austin Ziegler wrote:
For all that, though, he is asking interesting questions from which
people can learn
I am finding the question about metaclasses to be of this sort. I hadn't realized how richly Ruby borrowed from Smalltalk. It lifts the spirit to see this design in a language with the reach of Ruby (Python, too, in this respect).
Umm, is it anything you couldn't learn by actually studying the Pickaxe?
Maybe enduring this particular growing pain is just another chapter in the process of language maturation. Other newsgroups (e.g. lisp and python) have apparently graduated already.
Those who actually respond to Ilias ought to start charging him for all the free consulting work, then maybe he would be motivated to engage his own brain and do some honest learning, instead of playing the intellectual greased pig.
···
--
Glenn Parker | glenn.parker-AT-comcast.net | <http://www.tetrafoil.com/>
You must supply email addresses. I will discuss this with them.
···
On Apr 5, 2005 10:32 PM, Luke Graham <spoooq@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 6, 2005 12:18 PM, Bill Guindon <agorilla@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 5, 2005 9:58 PM, Luke Graham <spoooq@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 5, 2005 8:18 PM, B. K. Oxley (binkley) <binkley@alumni.rice.edu> wrote:
> > > Luke Graham wrote:
> > > > Could it be??? Shouldnt the flash have turned it to stone???
> > > >
> > > > If you follow the link to his coach, you will notice he worked for S+M
> > > > Components...
> > > > nothin suss! I think hed have to enjoy S&M to take Ilias on as a student.
> > >
> > > I'm new to ruby-talk. Why the pile-on for this fellow? I looked
> > > through some of the material linked, and his most recent posts since I
> > > joined, and he seems "mostly harmless" (in the words of Douglas Adams).
> > >
> > > I thought Ruby was the language for nice people. Why all the snippy
> > > remarks?
> >
> > Others have explained their points of view in this thread already, but
> > I want to give my position, seeing as I was the one being nasty.
> >
> > Ilias is a chronic time-waster. He may not be a troll in the true
> > sense of the word, but the effect is the same. The few posts Ive made
> > -about- him pale in comparison to the list traffic -to-
> > and -from- him, however it is true that threads like this one are part
> > of his success. The only way to win is to not play, and I dont believe
> > this list is ready to do that yet, so I dont see any harm in a couple
> > more mails. I know thats an illogical view, and that every post I make
> > adds victory points to his score, but Im only human and dont always
> > make sense.
> >
> > For me, the biggest effect he has is to cause a sense of wonder that
> > bright people like JEG2 would waste even a minute of their lives
> > responding to him, once they realised what he was. After a few minutes
> > of research, its obvious that even his more interesting questions act
> > as lures to keep the threads going until "closed". I saw a post where
> > he mentioned something about someone acting as a "cyber-doctor", so I
> > guess hes been remotely analysed many times, but I think in the end
> > hes probably just lonely and confused. It doesnt make him any less
> > irritating.
> >
> > --
> > spooq
> >
> >
>
> I admire JEG2 for politely replying (when it makes sense), and wish I
> could be that generous myself. The thread has brought up some good
> points.
>
> back to Ilias mode...
>
> This thread was closed many posts back. You must not continue to post to it!
Its ok, I asked the people who run the internet to reopen it.
--
spooq
--
Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)
Please don't hijack threads by using your reply button and replacing the subject. Sensible mailers such as yours add In-Reply-To and References headers that cause responses to your hijacking attempt to be intermixed with the original thread.
Modern mailers have 'new' buttons and address books for a reason.
PGP.sig (194 Bytes)
···
On 06 Apr 2005, at 02:41, imap wrote:
[some stuff]
--
Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://segment7.net
FEC2 57F1 D465 EB15 5D6E 7C11 332A 551C 796C 9F04
The current Win32OLE converts nil to VT_ERROR of OLE.
But OpenSchema expects VT_EMPTY and the current version does not support
the way to converting nil to VT_EMPTY.
The next version of Win32OLE retry with converting nil
to VT_EMPTY if failed to invoke with converting nil to VT_ERROR.
So, the following script will work fine in the next release.
@rs = @con.OpenSchema(4, [nil, nil, "tab00200"])
Regards,
Masaki Suketa
···
In message "win32ole VARIANT limitations?" on 05/04/06, "imap" <jfc@segonet.com> writes:
@con = WIN32OLE.new('ADODB.Connection')
@con.open("Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=#{ruta};") May be
like with perl:
@rs =@con.OpenSchema(4, [nil,nil,"tab00200"])---> error I try too:
@rs =@con._invoke(@con.ole_method('OpenSchema').dispid,
[4, [nil,nil,"tab00200"]],
[VT_UI2, VT_ARRAY|VT_VARIANT]
)
Error too...
I don't know if it's posible to do this!!
I no longer have time for this off-topic discusstion. I'm closing this thread.
Please reopen it, I wanted to post something!
martinus
Maybe enduring this particular growing pain is just another chapter in
the process of language maturation.
I think it is, or, to state it another way, one of the things that attracts me
to Ruby is that the language and newsgroups are fairly young--there's not as
many old-timer's that have used Ruby for 20 years, know all there is to know,
are thoroughly bored by the repeat questions that come up, and say so or make
it known somehow.
I guess I'm trying to say, it's a young and friendly group, and I feel I can
sort of learn Ruby with the group (later than some, but not too late), rather
than (in some more established language) be the ignorant apprentice among a
group of sages that are no longer willing to welcome young apprentices.
So, I think it is a stage in the process of maturation, and being at the stage
we are is a good thing--it will attract more people than some of the more
mature languages.
Randy Kramer
···
On Tuesday 05 April 2005 12:24 pm, Glenn Parker wrote:
Other newsgroups (e.g. lisp and
python) have apparently graduated already.
Those who actually respond to Ilias ought to start charging him for all
the free consulting work, then maybe he would be motivated to engage his
own brain and do some honest learning, instead of playing the
intellectual greased pig.
Glenn Parker wrote:
B. K. Oxley (binkley) wrote:
I am finding the question about metaclasses to be of this sort. I hadn't realized how richly Ruby borrowed from Smalltalk. It lifts the spirit to see this design in a language with the reach of Ruby (Python, too, in this respect).
Umm, is it anything you couldn't learn by actually studying the Pickaxe?
Agreed. It's presently shipping from Amazon and should be here any day now. I'm excited!
Cheers,
--binkley
To coin a phrase.... LOL!
Tom
···
On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 11:55 +0900, Bill Guindon wrote:
On Apr 5, 2005 10:32 PM, Luke Graham <spoooq@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This thread was closed many posts back. You must not continue to post to it!
> Its ok, I asked the people who run the internet to reopen it.
You must supply email addresses. I will discuss this with them.
Randy Kramer, April 6:
So, I think it is a stage in the process of maturation, and being at
the stage we are is a good thing--it will attract more people than
some of the more mature languages.
Still, there's no reason in allowing deterrents--like Ilias if we are to
believe the stuff said about him on comp.lang.lisp and judging from his
postings to this list so far--to take us to a stage where people aren't
willing to help out anymore,
nikolai
···
--
Nikolai Weibull: now available free of charge at http://bitwi.se/\!
Born in Chicago, IL USA; currently residing in Gothenburg, Sweden.
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}
[off-topic discussions deleted.]
root@inter.net
Thank you. An email has been sent. The reply will be posted under:
[EVALUATION] - E03c
Further discussion in this thread is futile.
···
On Apr 5, 2005 11:28 PM, Luke Graham <spoooq@gmail.com> wrote:
--
Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)