Political thought - Leader on the threat from the illiberal left - Don’t underestimate the danger of left-leaning identity politics

ruby-talk
1

Hello,

     It looks like "behind the backdoors" without any discussion on
this very ruby-talk list some self-appointed illiberal lefties try to
bring (force onto you, really) their politics.

   Anyways, I live in Austria - next door to former communist
countries (and, yes, I am old enough to remember and study history -
reading books and such).

  Anyways, just let me (re)post and highlight the leader and warning
from a world-class weekly newsmagazine
titled

Political thought - Leader
The threat from the illiberal left -
Don’t underestimate the danger of left-leaning identity politics [1]

  If you are too lazy to read - the conclusion - If you cherish your
freedom in a liberal democracy - sorry to say - it is time for you to
speak up (and, yes, learn about history).

   Cheers. Prost.

[1] The threat from the illiberal left | The Economist

2

Hello,

  Just to clarify
   I am a long-time member of the ruby community
   and I strongly oppose
      forcing the politics of a minority onto us.

   I dare you to discuss and debate
   that your illiberal (mostly american-style)
    identity non-sense has the support of the ruby community
    and not just the extreme ultra left-wing faction.

  And for sure if you do NOT care about democratic process
   I dare you to discuss and debate
    that your arguments and reasoning make sense.

   Let's start with Voltaire. Anyone, remember
    what Voltaire was fighting for?

   Cheers. Prost.

3

El dv, 1 oct 2021 a les 10:22 Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> va
escriure:

     It looks like "behind the backdoors" without any discussion on

this very ruby-talk list some self-appointed illiberal lefties try to
bring (force onto you, really)

This is a technical mailing list. Please, stay on topic.

···
4

Hello,

This is a technical mailing list. Please, stay on topic.

   This is the discussion list of the ruby community and the thread is
on topic due to "backdoor dealings" of illiberal (ultra) lefties. The
legitimation and reasoning is up for discussion and debate.

   May I come to Voltaire again. Guess, what Voltaire was fighting for?

5

Hello,

> This is a technical mailing list. Please, stay on topic.

   This is the discussion list of the ruby community

No, you discuss your topics of interest, political thoughts, or fine
cuisine, with the Ruby community in conference halls.

This is a mailing list specifically to discuss about Ruby, the programming
language.

Please, stay on topic.

···

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 11:07 AM Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

6

I think you could open a PR on github.com/ruby/www.ruby-lang.org to discuss
about ruby lang ruling like another guy just did:

Talking about that straight into the mailing list is a bit spammy

···

--

Maurizio De Santis

Il giorno ven 1 ott 2021 alle ore 11:19 Xavier Noria <fxn@hashref.com> ha scritto:

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 11:07 AM Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hello,

> This is a technical mailing list. Please, stay on topic.

   This is the discussion list of the ruby community

No, you discuss your topics of interest, political thoughts, or fine
cuisine, with the Ruby community in conference halls.

This is a mailing list specifically to discuss about Ruby, the programming
language.

Please, stay on topic.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk&gt;

7

Hello,

   This is the SECOND time in public (I have got no private email)
to tell me to shut up. SHAME ON YOU!

   May I repost the part that you left out from your selective quote

.. the thread is on topic due to "backdoor dealings" of illiberal
(ultra) lefties.
The legitimation and reasoning is up for discussion and debate.

   May I come to Voltaire again. Guess, what Voltaire was fighting for?

···

from my response:

8

Talking about that straight into the mailing list is a bit spammy

  Are you sure your response is on topic? And to use your self-serving
lingo - "a bit spammy". What again was your reason for talking
straight into the mailing list?

  PS: May I come to Voltaire again. Guess, what Voltaire was fighting for?

9

No I don't think my response was on topic, I made an exception in order to
try to be useful. This is another exception to answer your concerns, I'll
probably stop here with exceptions.

I'm sorry if I used words in a bad way, I'm not a good english speaker.

I don't know much about Voltaire.

···

--

Maurizio De Santis

Il giorno ven 1 ott 2021 alle ore 11:31 Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Talking about that straight into the mailing list is a bit spammy

  Are you sure your response is on topic? And to use your self-serving
lingo - "a bit spammy". What again was your reason for talking
straight into the mailing list?

  PS: May I come to Voltaire again. Guess, what Voltaire was fighting for?

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk&gt;

10

This stuff is wonderful. I have been struggling to find right-wing thinking
programmers. I have created 57 freedom oriented programs, including a web
browser based on Chrome but better, and a programming language that
converts into C++ and looks like Ruby and Python. Most of these programs
are written in Ruby and Crystal.

It seems that almost all programmers are very left wing, dangerously so.

I live in Ottawa.

Could anyone find me high quality peers?

Best regards,

Gregory David Evan Cohen
gregorycohen2@gmail.com is my email

···

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 4:51 AM Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

  Just to clarify
   I am a long-time member of the ruby community
   and I strongly oppose
      forcing the politics of a minority onto us.

   I dare you to discuss and debate
   that your illiberal (mostly american-style)
    identity non-sense has the support of the ruby community
    and not just the extreme ultra left-wing faction.

  And for sure if you do NOT care about democratic process
   I dare you to discuss and debate
    that your arguments and reasoning make sense.

   Let's start with Voltaire. Anyone, remember
    what Voltaire was fighting for?

   Cheers. Prost.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk&gt;

11

Hello,

   This is the SECOND time in public (I have got no private email)
to tell me to shut up. SHAME ON YOU!

I am not tell you that. I am asking you to *please* stay on topic. You can
talk Ruby as much as you want.

And I am saying so in the name of the ML etiquette, which is standard
etiquette in technical forums. And because subscribers here expect that
etiquette, and when an email enters our mailboxes it has to be technical.

This is my last reply to this thread.

Xavier

PD: And yes, moderation is part of the etiquette too.

···

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 11:26 AM Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

12

The use of Javascript and Ruby to help people to improve civil discourse
(e.g., in comment sections) would be incredible.

13

Hello,

https://github.com/ruby/www.ruby-lang.org/pull/2690

Let's highlight some illiberal (ultra) leftie insanity:

I suggest we also remove this point from the conduct guidelines:

* Participants will be tolerant of opposing views.

  Reactions: All Hearts (5)! Next up:

I wholeheartedly approve [...] anyone willing to educate themselves
could learn without me having to repeat them. [Read ...]

  Pointing to an Thoughtbot article by Amanda Beiner titled Beyond
Best Intentions.

  No offense to Amanda Beiner or Thoughtbot.
    Maybe Voltaire is a little bit more qualified
   to comment and write on how to bring peace and harmony to the world.

   May I ask again what Voltaire was fighting for?

14

Gerald, I opened 2960.

The person you're quoting to make a point was trolling me. I was polite in
an attempt to disarm them and encouraged them to open an issue if they
wanted to weigh in on Ruby community guidelines.

That comment is someone making fun of me; it wasn't a serious suggestion.

Sorry if you disagree with my PR, I'd encourage you to open an issue or PR
with your thoughts so folks can discuss.

Personally, I'd prefer we talk about Ruby and Ruby-related topics.

Thanks.

···

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021, 04:48 Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

> https://github.com/ruby/www.ruby-lang.org/pull/2690

Let's highlight some illiberal (ultra) leftie insanity:

> I suggest we also remove this point from the conduct guidelines:
>
> * Participants will be tolerant of opposing views.

  Reactions: All Hearts (5)! Next up:

> I wholeheartedly approve [...] anyone willing to educate themselves
> could learn without me having to repeat them. [Read ...]

  Pointing to an Thoughtbot article by Amanda Beiner titled Beyond
Best Intentions.

  No offense to Amanda Beiner or Thoughtbot.
    Maybe Voltaire is a little bit more qualified
   to comment and write on how to bring peace and harmony to the world.

   May I ask again what Voltaire was fighting for?

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk&gt;

15

This stuff is wonderful. I have been struggling to find right-wing thinking programmers.

  Sorry to break the news. I am of the Erasmus (of Rotterdam) school.
Look it up - Erasmus is a great role model. Anyways, left, right,
center or reactionary or progressive? Erasmus was asked for or to
declare himself catholic (papist) or protestant (non-papist) and
Erasmus was a free thinker making up his own mind.

   Sorry for the long story - for sure I am just a humble nobody - the
point in the last elections in Austria I voted green or socialist a
far stretch for you right-wing thinking programmer.

   I think the consensus is that the label for this identity politics
righteous freaks taking it to far is ultra or extreme illiberal
leftist.

16

(Taken from a different thread here)

...

This stuff is wonderful. I have been struggling to find right-wing thinking
programmers. I have created 57 freedom oriented programs, including a web
browser based on Chrome but better, and a programming language that
converts into C++ and looks like Ruby and Python. Most of these programs
are written in Ruby and Crystal.

It seems that almost all programmers are very left wing, dangerously so.

I live in Ottawa.

Could anyone find me high quality peers?

Best regards,

Gregory David Evan Cohen
gregorycohen2@gmail.com is my email

···

---------------------------------

The use of Javascript (and possible Ruby) to create a Javascript
library (and perhaps a Chrome extension and perhaps a command line tool and
perhaps a GTK or QT program) that helps people (by using textboxes or
command line prompts) to create high quality communications, would be
wonderful.

Think of how poor quality responses to communications can be.

Even on here.

If someone created one or more tools that could be easily added on web
pages, that would augment someone's life to help create goal and value
oriented responses (or original communications), then there is literally
nothing that couldn't solve.

This might be the most useful library ever created.

There could be a tool that would help with democracy. Human being +
augmentive tool = civil discourse, eventually resulting in liberty.

This would enable democracy to work.

Imagine if 50% of all websites used this library.

This would help people to be goal or value oriented, and not be coming up
with terrible communications that, for example, insult people's mothers or
education.

I have yet to make this program. My other programs are BSD licensed on my
server for people who know about my server. I made 61 YouTube videos of my
software before my old computer died :frowning:

I love Ruby

Best regards,

Gregory Cohen

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 6:00 AM Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

> This stuff is wonderful. I have been struggling to find right-wing
thinking programmers.

  Sorry to break the news. I am of the Erasmus (of Rotterdam) school.
Look it up - Erasmus is a great role model. Anyways, left, right,
center or reactionary or progressive? Erasmus was asked for or to
declare himself catholic (papist) or protestant (non-papist) and
Erasmus was a free thinker making up his own mind.

   Sorry for the long story - for sure I am just a humble nobody - the
point in the last elections in Austria I voted green or socialist a
far stretch for you right-wing thinking programmer.

   I think the consensus is that the label for this identity politics
righteous freaks taking it to far is ultra or extreme illiberal
leftist.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk&gt;

17

Hello,

The person you're quoting to make a point was trolling me.

Thanks for pointing out .I hope you see even what you label trolls
can make a great point and reveal your hypocrisy, eh?

  Anyways a debate by definition will not lead to the absolute
ultimate truth and conclusion .. such is the state of politics and
humanity.

   Anyways, if you search the internets for "what was Voltaire
fighting for?" you get...

Voltaire believed above all in the efficacy of reason. He believed
social progress could be achieved through reason and that no authority
- religious or political or otherwise - should be immune to challenge
by reason. He emphasized in his work the importance of tolerance

  Not so bad. So fire breathing wizards are no longer tolerated /
welcome - who's next on the list? If you want to live together in
peace and harmony Voltaire suggests maybe try (more) tolerance and
yes, dare to challenge / debate authority (even the ultra / extreme
righteous illiberal lefties that tell you to shut up in so many ways
while always confirming - no, no, no - I am not telling to shut up).

18

Two days of a meltdown about identity politics caused by a harmless joke: on-topic.
A comment about Voltaire and freedom of expression: off-topic.
The level of cynicism in this mailing list is remarkable.

I am done with this list; my life is stressful enough. So where can I talk about Ruby with decent people?
If you know about a better mailing list, or maybe a forum, group in a social media, etc... please send me a private e-mail. I will be unsubscribing soon.

···

________________________________
De: ruby-talk <ruby-talk-bounces@ruby-lang.org> em nome de Xavier Noria <fxn@hashref.com>
Enviado: sexta-feira, 1 de outubro de 2021 06:18
Para: Ruby users <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Assunto: Re: Political thought - Leader on the threat from the illiberal left - Don’t underestimate the danger of left-leaning identity politics

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 11:07 AM Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com<mailto:gerald.bauer@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hello,

This is a technical mailing list. Please, stay on topic.

   This is the discussion list of the ruby community

No, you discuss your topics of interest, political thoughts, or fine cuisine, with the Ruby community in conference halls.

This is a mailing list specifically to discuss about Ruby, the programming language.

Please, stay on topic.

19

Current shortcomings of Ruby:

   1. A better-designed website (I expressed my concern somewhere else,
   too, but I don't know the *how* but it's obvious that even raw Bootstrap
   looks better though)
   2. A self-moderated and modern discussion platform (Discourse might be,
   I have some background about installing and managing it so I can help)

Frederico de Oliveira Linhares <fredlinhares@hotmail.com.br>, 1 Eki 2021
Cum, 19:08 tarihinde şunu yazdı:

···

Two days of a meltdown about identity politics caused by a harmless joke:
on-topic.
A comment about Voltaire and freedom of expression: off-topic.
The level of cynicism in this mailing list is remarkable.

I am done with this list; my life is stressful enough. So where can I talk
about Ruby with decent people?
If you know about a better mailing list, or maybe a forum, group in a
social media, etc... please send me a private e-mail. I will be
unsubscribing soon.

------------------------------
*De:* ruby-talk <ruby-talk-bounces@ruby-lang.org> em nome de Xavier Noria
<fxn@hashref.com>
*Enviado:* sexta-feira, 1 de outubro de 2021 06:18
*Para:* Ruby users <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
*Assunto:* Re: Political thought - Leader on the threat from the
illiberal left - Don’t underestimate the danger of left-leaning identity
politics

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 11:07 AM Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hello,

> This is a technical mailing list. Please, stay on topic.

   This is the discussion list of the ruby community

No, you discuss your topics of interest, political thoughts, or fine
cuisine, with the Ruby community in conference halls.

This is a mailing list specifically to discuss about Ruby, the programming
language.

Please, stay on topic.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk&gt;

20

Hello !

Speaking for myself, I tend to just ignore / mute the off-topic
conversations. Easier to not engage. But, it does give the impression
perhaps that people don't care.

I continue to love the Ruby language and the community in general. There
will always be people wanting to get into a dustup and those people tend to
have plenty of energy. Meanwhile others just have things to do :stuck_out_tongue:

#minaswan FTW !!

···

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 12:08 PM Frederico de Oliveira Linhares < fredlinhares@hotmail.com.br> wrote:

Two days of a meltdown about identity politics caused by a harmless joke:
on-topic.
A comment about Voltaire and freedom of expression: off-topic.
The level of cynicism in this mailing list is remarkable.

I am done with this list; my life is stressful enough. So where can I talk
about Ruby with decent people?
If you know about a better mailing list, or maybe a forum, group in a
social media, etc... please send me a private e-mail. I will be
unsubscribing soon.