MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb

-----Messaggio originale-----

···

Da: Marc Heiler [mailto:shevegen@linuxmail.org]
Inviato: mercoledì 16 novembre 2011 07:10
A: ruby-talk ML
Oggetto: Re: MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb

The biggest problem with Ilias Lazaridis is that his suggestions to improve
Ruby are not meant to be honest in ANY way whatsoever.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

--
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Hi.

I'm learning ruby.. I just like to say that to me Matz seems like a very smart person.
This is the most fun and cool language I ever tried..

It's totaly cool, as an american teen would have put it. :slight_smile:

/Mix

Five posts in on this thread, and four of them are the self appointed list police saying don't post in this thread. Ilias vs Lord of the Flies.

···

On 21/06/11 08:52, Adam Prescott wrote:

On 20 Jun 2011 20:32, "Chad Perrin"<code@apotheon.net> wrote:

Before anyone engages this nonsense . . .

Please don't feed the troll. Seriously. A more obvious troll than this
message from Ilias would be really, really difficult to arrange.
Actually saying anything to him here would be a monumentally bad idea.

Requoting, because this can't be overemphasised.

Actually this is a good thread, I was fully expecting Ilias to take
weeks to get to this point (based on his past behaviour) which would
have filled the mailing list with so much noise. There may be 100s of
millions of people on the internet but the number of people on
programming language newsgroups and mailing lists is much more
limited. You do keep running into the same people time and time again,
something Ilias seems to forget or not care about.

He seems to have fallen apart rather abruptly, wonder what might have
happened in real life?

You ought to see what Arthur T Murray is up to these days. O_o

I'd view it as more of a "dear god, can we not have another
relative_require." It's a request, really, not a demand.

···

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Nikolai Weibull <now@bitwi.se> wrote:

It seems to me that the members of this mailing list that tend to
answer Ilias are the same members that tend to act list police.

Perhaps they should heed their own and each other’s warnings instead
of repeatedly telling everyone else what to do?

Please note that although I send my messages additionally to ruby-
talk, I do not read the ruby-talk list but only the comp.lang.ruby
usenet group.

So you can write freely on ruby-talk, in your small "club", without
expecting any reply.

In other words, if James' goal had been to make Ilias go away, he succeeded.
Huh.

ruby-talk, puppies, which need protection of a censoring instance

comp.lang.ruby, professionals, which know how to setup a filter

Very tempted to go over there to prove a point, but unfortunately, I do have a
life.

Whoever sees this abrupt interruption of service and does not react,
is essentially part of this first step towards censorship.

Really? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem?

It's profoundly ironic hearing this from Ilias. Ilias, who has mentioned anti-
defamation laws and threatened to sue people in an attempt to get people to
stop saying mean things about him, is now complaining about censorship?

Poor puppy.

···

On Tuesday, June 21, 2011 07:34:46 PM Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

Thank you for contributing to the noise that Ilias has spawned.

I guess that makes you "Lord" number six.

···

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 06:08:28AM +0900, Sam Duncan wrote:

Five posts in on this thread, and four of them are the self appointed
list police saying don't post in this thread. Ilias vs Lord of the Flies.

--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]

Five seconds with Google:

http://markmail.org/message/yhqasfuazkzmqjp4
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/131618

Outside of Ruby:
http://www.phwinfo.com/forum/comp-lang-ruby/248354-trac-does-make-sense-keep-http-trac-edgewall-org-ticket-4315open.html

And a particular favourite of mine: http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html

s/list police/experienced folk/;

···

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Sam Duncan <sduncan@wetafx.co.nz> wrote:

Five posts in on this thread, and four of them are the self appointed list
police saying don't post in this thread. Ilias vs Lord of the Flies.

--
Phillip Gawlowski

A method of solution is perfect if we can forsee from the start,
and even prove, that following that method we shall attain our aim.
-- Leibnitz

Hi Mix!

I agree. The more I work with it the more I discover how well thought
out it is. It eloquently stays out of our way and work with us. Matz
truly understands how programmer are wired. I've seen many languages
that seem to get away from language "gotchas" from the past but Ruby
truly addresses most of the common problems I've seen with the C
derived languages. Design patterns built into the language structure
and encourages usage. Genius. I also think it's amazing that we have
complete control over the interpreter as to allow us to change and
manipulate structure depending on what language tool we are building
into it. It's awesome and fun and begs to be hacked!

As an American adult I'll have to agree with you. It's totally cool!

~Stu

···

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 4:03 PM, m b <snert@hotmail.se> wrote:

Hi.

I'm learning ruby.. I just like to say that to me Matz seems like a very smart person.
This is the most fun and cool language I ever tried..

It's totaly cool, as an american teen would have put it. :slight_smile:

/Mix

I agree. I’d much rather read another one of Ilias tirades than
another “please don’t feed the troll” post.

···

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 23:08, Sam Duncan <sduncan@wetafx.co.nz> wrote:

Five posts in on this thread, and four of them are the self appointed list
police saying don't post in this thread. Ilias vs Lord of the Flies.

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

Ilias Lazaridis, 48
Phillip Gawlowski, 15
David Masover, 12
Chad Perrin, 10
Intransition, 6
Matt Harrison, 6
Mike Moore, 5
Adam Prescott, 4
Matthew K Williams, 4
Salk Pugh-Pitt, 4
A. Stroh Turph, 3
John W Higgins, 3
Michael Edgar, 3
Ryan Davis, 3
Gary Wright, 2
Iñaki Baz Castillo, 2
Jason Roelofs, 2
Sam Duncan, 2
Steve Klabnik, 2
Tony Archieri, 2
Christopher Dicely, 1
Florian Gilcher, 1
Joe Peri, 1
Josh Cheek, 1
Kane Williams, 1
KlausG, 1
Luc Heinrich, 1
Mike Bethany, 1
Petite Abeille, 1
Rob Biedenharn, 1
Stu, 1
Ted Han, 1
Yukihiro Matsumoto, 1

The top two posters, skipping you and Ilias himself, are the two that
posted warnings in this thread. The poster who re-quoted one of the
warnings is in the top ten.

···

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:37, Adam Prescott <adam@aprescott.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Nikolai Weibull <now@bitwi.se> wrote:

It seems to me that the members of this mailing list that tend to
answer Ilias are the same members that tend to act list police.

Perhaps they should heed their own and each other’s warnings instead
of repeatedly telling everyone else what to do?

I'd view it as more of a "dear god, can we not have another
relative_require." It's a request, really, not a demand.

Frankly, if everyone had left it at Ilias' first post and the necessary
statement that we shouldn't feed the troll, life would be grand right
now.

As it is, however, even the expressions of support for the "please don't
feed the troll" warning have served to undermine it, and we're right back
where we were with the require_relative thread. I give up.

···

--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]

What point are you making? This says nothing of the content of the
length of the posts. The sum of all non-Ilias posts from your list is,
by my count, 103. So?

Are you saying that the top 10 on that list should stop being
hypocritical and not post on this one? If so, the goal as I see it is
to not have responses to the opening post by Ilias which cause the
type of endless back-and-forth discussion that Ilias threads seem so
prone to, with rude behaviour. Unless of course you think that won't
happen; I'm not sure how you could, considering the opening subject of
this thread. Posting to say "this is not worth your time" is not the
same as taking part in a discussion based around a fictional project
manager and a 7-character restriction. You have been following the
threads, right?

···

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Nikolai Weibull <now@bitwi.se> wrote:

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

[list]

The top two posters, skipping you and Ilias himself, are the two that
posted warnings in this thread. The poster who re-quoted one of the
warnings is in the top ten.

[snip list of names]

I checked back in my ruby-talk archives to see what happened the last time Ilias popped in here (2005, briefly in early 2006, and lastly in 2008). Many of the top 10 names participated in his threads from 2005 (including you) and 2006. In 2008 he wasn't here long enough to attract much attention.

I would hope that all of these people would remember the last few times Lazaridis joined ruby-talk. I'd also hope that they would know better and just *not participate* in his threads at all. But *they* can't help themselves either (including you).

I fully expect this thread will go another few dozen replies and yet none but a few will see the irony. If I were Lazaridis, I'd be laughing my fool head off (and he probably is).

cr

···

On Jun 21, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Nikolai Weibull wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:37, Adam Prescott <adam@aprescott.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Nikolai Weibull <now@bitwi.se> wrote:

It seems to me that the members of this mailing list that tend to
answer Ilias are the same members that tend to act list police.

Perhaps they should heed their own and each other’s warnings instead
of repeatedly telling everyone else what to do?

I'd view it as more of a "dear god, can we not have another
relative_require." It's a request, really, not a demand.

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

Ilias Lazaridis, 48
Phillip Gawlowski, 15
David Masover, 12
Chad Perrin, 10

[snip]

The top two posters, skipping you and Ilias himself, are the two that
posted warnings in this thread. The poster who re-quoted one of the
warnings is in the top ten.

. . . and the number four (number three after Ilias) is me. Do you know
what that proves?

It proves I learned something from my experience. I'm not sure why
you're intent on casting the act of trying to keep this list from
becoming completely useless for actual productive Ruby discussion as a
villainous act.

···

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:39:14PM +0900, Nikolai Weibull wrote:

--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]

Nikolai Weibull wrote in post #1006560:

Five posts in on this thread, and four of them are the self appointed list
police saying don't post in this thread. Ilias vs Lord of the Flies.

I agree. I’d much rather read another one of Ilias tirades than
another “please don’t feed the troll” post.

I just wanted to agree with this.

I have a few more points to add, too.

Sometimes a person has a lot of anger, and post some things that seem
crazy to many others. It is part of life. They were born that way. It is
best if you can notice they a little off and not put too much technical
significance in their work. This much can probably be agreed. It is an
opportunity to consider how you feel about community.

In my case it to realize that Matz is nice, and that is... nice. For me
even if I don't post, it is nice.

However, insisting that they not post to a mailing list is bullying
behavior.

Complaining when others talk to them is to seek to control something
that is darn well none of your business, and is bullying and even a step
beyond.

And calling them out for public ridicule is disgusting, and it is
definitely Lord of the Flies. The idea some had that simply pointing
that out makes you also like Lord of the Flies is bizarre! It is the
meanness and trying to join together like a wild gang to force somebody
out even when it is not your decision, with no concept of social norms,
that is what Lord of the Flies implies.

It seems like it should go without saying that any post claiming to be
well intentioned should be accepted, unless it is clearly abusive. Not
liking the author should never be grounds to exclude a post, or even to
attempt to exclude a post.

Because it is not nice to try to exclude people.

···

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 23:08, Sam Duncan <sduncan@wetafx.co.nz> wrote:

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

I learned something today. People will go out of their way to comment
on things that have no bearing on their day to day, and may even have
been of use to someone. You know what, though? They won't go so far as
to offer the help to the individual who needed it, in the manner that
it should have been given.

I have wronged you and provoked the anger of our peers, and I would
like to apologize. I don't know how you feel about my comment. I hope
we can be buddies, you know? Your silence speaks to me, though, and I
feel ashamed.

I am sorry. I don't know much about you, but please allow me to say
that you are clearly a wonderful, intellectual person with much to
offer the world.

Now, If I may, I would like to tell you how to cook an egg, when it
has been encapsulated by a pepper. I would like to preface this by
informing you that, were you to elect to cook it without the pepper,
the cooking of the egg is much the same. Were you to replace the
pepper with, perhaps, an onion ring, it is delicious. However, if you
don't like onions, I understand.

First, heat the pan so that when you place water on it, it sizzles
slightly, but not so much that it evaporates faster than you can count
to seven. Place a small amount of butter in the centre of the pan. You
can use margarine, or even olive oil if you want, but the centre of
the pan is the best place for an even heat. Once greased, place the
ring of vegetable on the pan. Me, I like my peppers to be cooked. I'm
not a fan of raw peppers, so I get it a bit brown on the bottom, then
flip it over. This allows both sides to be just the way I like. This
is of course to taste, so again, I leave that to you. Once it has been
flipped, that's when you want to place the egg in the middle. If you
did not flip, or if you like raw peppers, you can just go straight to
putting the egg in there.

Now, the egg itself only takes maybe two minutes to get to a heat
where it would be safely rid of salmonella. I'm not a chef or a
biologist, this is just what I've been told, and my parents enjoy
runny eggs so I let it go. Do you have parents that like things you
don't? I hear that's common. But I digress. I like to cook it closer
to six, some times five minutes. I just realised that the first link I
provided listed four minutes, which for me is just not doneenough. I
don't like that little bit of wet around the yolk. In fact, I normally
break the yolk just so that doesn't happen. You can do this too, if
you'd like.

Now, while it is cooking and still soft, this is when I like to add
some broken black pepper, garlic powder, onion powder (keep in mind,
that if you've replaced the pepper ring with an onion, the onion
powder is optional.), and salt. I really enjoy garlic, so I put a good
bit in there. I cannot provide you measurements, as I have those
shaker things you can buy pretty well anywhere, and I just keep going
until I think "Yes, that should be enough". The same goes for the
onion powder and black pepper. Perhaps I should also mention that I
use a pepper grinder to to get my black pepper in there. In case you
have not done it, I would suggest against eating a whole black pepper
seed. I think they are seeds, I am not a botanist.

Once it is done cooking, I lather it in vinegar. My family finds this
repulsive, but I have noticed that the pepper ring gives the vinegar a
nice "cup" to sit in, and really soak in. I also add more salt. I'm
not a healthy eater, Bunsin Honey Dew, so I would suggest against
adding as much salt as I do. I won't tell you how much I add, just to
stave off that possibility. Now that I think about it, by not telling
you how much I have added, that may commit you to curiosity. I add
about four shakes from a table salt shaker. This is on top of the
other two shakes I added while cooking.

I am deeply sorry for my presumptuous grasp at buddy-dom previously,
and more so for the possible insult suffered by linking to you
directions for frying an egg. This was wrong of me, and I hope this
finds you before you make your attempt, and thus comes to some use.

···

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Chad Perrin <code@apotheon.net> wrote:

Frankly, if everyone had left it at Ilias' first post and the necessary
statement that we shouldn't feed the troll, life would be grand right
now.

As it is, however, even the expressions of support for the "please don't
feed the troll" warning have served to undermine it, and we're right back
where we were with the require_relative thread. I give up.

My point is that it’s not up to others to decide what I, or anyone
else, deem worthy of discussion. It seems that most posters on this
list have managed to stay clear of most of what Ilias has been posting
about. Some have, as the list showed, engaged him and it’s mildly
annoying when some of those posters then tell everyone else to steer
clear of him.

···

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 14:51, Adam Prescott <adam@aprescott.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Nikolai Weibull <now@bitwi.se> wrote:

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

[list]

The top two posters, skipping you and Ilias himself, are the two that
posted warnings in this thread. The poster who re-quoted one of the
warnings is in the top ten.

Are you saying that the top 10 on that list should stop being
hypocritical and not post on this one? If so, the goal as I see it is
to not have responses to the opening post by Ilias which cause the
type of endless back-and-forth discussion that Ilias threads seem so
prone to, with rude behaviour. Unless of course you think that won't
happen; I'm not sure how you could, considering the opening subject of
this thread. Posting to say "this is not worth your time" is not the
same as taking part in a discussion based around a fictional project
manager and a 7-character restriction. You have been following the
threads, right?

(And, by that logic, including you as well.)

I haven’t responded to Ilias once this time around. Had he posted
something that I felt warranted a response, I would have responded,
though.

···

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 15:07, Chuck Remes <cremes.devlist@mac.com> wrote:

On Jun 21, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Nikolai Weibull wrote:

Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
of messages):

[snip list of names]

I checked back in my ruby-talk archives to see what happened the last time Ilias popped in here (2005, briefly in early 2006, and lastly in 2008). Many of the top 10 names participated in his threads from 2005 (including you) and 2006. In 2008 he wasn't here long enough to attract much attention.

I would hope that all of these people would remember the last few times Lazaridis joined ruby-talk. I'd also hope that they would know better and just *not participate* in his threads at all. But *they* can't help themselves either (including you).

You are right, I'm smiling often, when looking at the "freak-show".
Sometimes I laugh even, e.g. when telling people honestly and directly
"I don't take you serious and I don't respect you", and seeing that
they have no self-respect and continue to address me directly, and
even using my first name.

But sometimes there are tears.

Because what happens here just reminds me that man-kind is still in
the mid-age, where the power of "freak-shows" executed "witches" in
the fire.

I can only repeat: I don't feel the slightest respect for this "freak-
show", and I do not take them serious.

But as a collective, of course I take them serious. Like a herd of
hyenas, they can be very dangerous. Like the mob which shouts "Free
her Soul in the Fire".

···

On 21 Ιούν, 16:07, Chuck Remes <cremes.devl...@mac.com> wrote:

On Jun 21, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Nikolai Weibull wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:37, Adam Prescott <a...@aprescott.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Nikolai Weibull <n...@bitwi.se> wrote:
>>> It seems to me that the members of this mailing list that tend to
>>> answer Ilias are the same members that tend to act list police.

>>> Perhaps they should heed their own and each other’s warnings instead
>>> of repeatedly telling everyone else what to do?

>> I'd view it as more of a "dear god, can we not have another
>> relative_require." It's a request, really, not a demand.

> Here are the statistics of the require_relative thread (name, number
> of messages):

[snip list of names]

I checked back in my ruby-talk archives to see what happened the last time Ilias popped in here (2005, briefly in early 2006, and lastly in 2008). Many of the top 10 names participated in his threads from 2005 (including you) and 2006. In 2008 he wasn't here long enough to attract much attention.

I would hope that all of these people would remember the last few times Lazaridis joined ruby-talk. I'd also hope that they would know better and just *not participate* in his threads at all. But *they* can't help themselves either (including you).

I fully expect this thread will go another few dozen replies and yet none but a few will see the irony. If I were Lazaridis, I'd be laughing my fool head off (and he probably is).

-

Sometimes there are tears.

Because I see how far away my major wish is.

May the World find Unity.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com