I enabled the emergency moderation mode for ruby-talk from 1week ago because
some of people were heat up in this list.
After that, the all of traffic needs to my moderation.
I disabled this mode now. So, You can send new message to this list without
my moderation.
But if some of people were heat up again, I will consider to shut-down this list
from ruby-lang.org. This consideration was approved by Matz.
I enabled the emergency moderation mode for ruby-talk from 1week ago
because
some of people were heat up in this list.
After that, the all of traffic needs to my moderation.
I disabled this mode now. So, You can send new message to this list without
my moderation.
But if some of people were heat up again, I will consider to shut-down
this list
from ruby-lang.org. This consideration was approved by Matz.
Please remember MINASWAN.
Thanks a lot for the moderation, it's really appreciated .
···
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 1:39 PM SHIBATA Hiroshi <hsbt@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
I think it was an unnecessary step. Because although there were some heated
arguments, it was resolved within the group without
things getting out of control. The group managed itself.
I feel that policing is not a good idea in a community to whom people
contribute voluntarily. It is part of the learning process to debate
and resolve situations peacefully.
saji
···
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 8:43 PM Xavier Noria <fxn@hashref.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 1:39 PM SHIBATA Hiroshi <hsbt@ruby-lang.org> > wrote:
Hello, all.
I'm administrator of ruby-talk.
I enabled the emergency moderation mode for ruby-talk from 1week ago
because
some of people were heat up in this list.
After that, the all of traffic needs to my moderation.
I disabled this mode now. So, You can send new message to this list
without
my moderation.
But if some of people were heat up again, I will consider to shut-down
this list
from ruby-lang.org. This consideration was approved by Matz.
Please remember MINASWAN.
Thanks a lot for the moderation, it's really appreciated .
I think it was an unnecessary step. Because although there were some
heated arguments, it was resolved within the group without
things getting out of control. The group managed itself.Â
Given the apparent correlation in timings of the moderation and things
cooling down I'm not so sure the group actually managed by itself.
I agree that avoiding moderation is usually preferable but from my
perspective things were really getting out of control. For the first
time on this mailing list I had not only to ignore individual users but
to blacklist entire threads too. This is not a good place to be and I
suspect the least patient ones among us started unsubscribing.
I feel that policing is not a good idea in a community to whom people
contribute voluntarily. It is part of the learning process to debate
and resolve situations peacefully.
Having to enforce an etiquette is always a delicate matter as it can
split the community. My personal take on this is that we are lucky that
it had to be done so rarely on ruby-talk: trolls are legions,
miscommunications between people of different cultures or having
different native languages happen and finally nowadays people are
probably more stressed than usual. Stressed people tend to react harshly
and situations escalate. This escalation can be unavoidable especially
on open mailing-lists and when the group can't solve it in a timely
manner (individual definitions of timely obviously differ) the
manager(s) have to do it or risk seeing the mailing-list implode.
Hopefully this will serve as a reminder that one of the core design
principles if not the main one for Ruby is making developers happy.
Flamewars on subjects that aren't even related to Ruby don't make anyone
happy.
Thank you Hiroshi, let's hope you won't have to intervene in any way in
the foreseeable future.
···
saji
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 8:43 PM Xavier Noria <fxn@hashref.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 1:39 PM SHIBATA Hiroshi > <hsbt@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
Hello, all.
I'm administrator of ruby-talk.
I enabled the emergency moderation mode for ruby-talk from
1week ago because
some of people were heat up in this list.
After that, the all of traffic needs to my moderation.
I disabled this mode now. So, You can send new message to this
list without
my moderation.
But if some of people were heat up again, I will consider to
shut-down this list
from ruby-lang.org <http://ruby-lang.org>. This consideration
was approved by Matz.
Please remember MINASWAN.
Thanks a lot for the moderation, it's really appreciated ðââï¸.Â
[...]
Thank you very much, much appreciated. I am new to Ruby and coding, still
in school learning. As much as someone had a point at some point. Much
hatred was starting to show itself and although I may be new to Ruby I know
enough that's not what Matz would want. I signed up for insight, online
help and discussions not for another social media nightmare.
I enabled the emergency moderation mode for ruby-talk from 1week ago
because
some of people were heat up in this list.
After that, the all of traffic needs to my moderation.
I disabled this mode now. So, You can send new message to this list without
my moderation.
But if some of people were heat up again, I will consider to shut-down
this list
from ruby-lang.org. This consideration was approved by Matz.
I don't want to discuss, if shutting down the whole mailing-list had been a good thing (I don't know what happened if it wasn't), but at my perception:
1) it should have been communicated that it IS "shut down" (one week ago),
2) when shutting down this should have been done before letting it "escalate";
for my opinion it was closed at the end of that - "not-technical" mails had just disapperared outright, or? - so it came too late, defeating its purpose.
3) It would have been very friendly to warn "we _will_ shut it down if "non-technical" mails are continued, BEFORE really doing it - THAT would have been "friendly".
So I'm not consent that the way this was done was necessery or even "nice", as we all assume that Matz is (he said 'yes' to this way of proceeding, never writing any warning/request/incitement by himself?!). -- I'm sure some words of him would have helped to clarify the situation / deescalate / help remembering being friendly.
In any case such drastic interventions should be communicated before applying, I would say in every mailing-list.
- that's my feeling & opinion (no more explanations here, because we want to stay technical).
thanks Opti
···
On 10/7/21, Die Optimisten<inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:
Again I also didn't get the message I sent neither any other messages -
did it arrive in the mailinglist?
(access to local vars in methods)?
This message came through, You can check the archives:
Really appreciated someone stepping up to "stop the bleeding". A lot of
"side threads" discussing politics is not what I was expecting to read in a
ruby mailing list, so enforcing a bit of silence was probably the best way
to cool everyone down.
That being said, a heads-up would have been great. I rely on the mailing
list mostly for announcing releases, and now I'm not sure if my last one
was actually broadcasted. Something to consider the next time someone needs
to press the red button.
Best,
Tiago
Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> escreveu no dia quarta,
13/10/2021 à(s) 17:12:
···
Hello,
I don't want to discuss, if shutting down the whole mailing-list had been a good thing (I don't know what happened if it wasn't), but at my perception:
1) it should have been communicated that it IS "shut down" (one week ago),
2) when shutting down this should have been done before letting it "escalate";
for my opinion it was closed at the end of that - "not-technical" mails had just disapperared outright, or? - so it came too late, defeating its purpose.
3) It would have been very friendly to warn "we _will_ shut it down if "non-technical" mails are continued, BEFORE really doing it - THAT would have been "friendly".
So I'm not consent that the way this was done was necessery or even "nice", as we all assume that Matz is (he said 'yes' to this way of proceeding, never writing any warning/request/incitement by himself?!). -- I'm sure some words of him would have helped to clarify the situation / deescalate / help remembering being friendly.
In any case such drastic interventions should be communicated before applying, I would say in every mailing-list.
- that's my feeling & opinion (no more explanations here, because we want to stay technical).
thanks Opti
On 10/7/21, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:
Again I also didn't get the message I sent neither any other messages -
did it arrive in the mailinglist?
(access to local vars in methods)?
.