Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails

ruby-talk
1

Hi There,

It is not trolling or Ruby vs Python flame war. In fact it is
completely opposite and a simple and straighforward question, actually
two related questions:

  1) I searched for Jobs in India for Python and Ruby and I see 7-9
out of 10 jobs in Ruby are for Ruby-on-Rails. Very very few positions
are for real computer programming/software-development using Ruby. In
case of Python, 5-6 are for Django while rest are computer
programming/software-development. Why it is so ?

2) I searched Ruby Talk mailing list archives on learning Ruby and
most of the posts on learning were related with learning in context to
Ruby-on-Rails. In case of Python (comp.lang.python), half of the posts
were talking about learning Python as a standalone programming
language. Why so ?

I am not talking about the popularity of Python vs Ruby. I am talking
about the community direction/mindset here. I know very well that both
Ruby and Python are powerful and similar in many ways. I just keep on
thinking that why Ruby community is more into web-frameworks while
Python community a lot into programming. I am not biased, I see more
jobs with Python than Ruby but I am still choosing Ruby because I have
programmed in C for 5 years and history of Python shows it is more
influenced by ABC, Modula-2+ and Algol, all of them imperative and
procedural which is kind of same paradigm as C whereas Ruby has more
influence from Perl, Smalltalk and Lisp which are in totally different
paradigms from C and learning a different way of thinking is a better
choice IMHO. I am just puzzled on why community is less focused on
programming and more on web side.

···

--


2

I think web programming and development is real programming. We've
always been programming to the platform, and doubly so since the first
compilers. Web programming vs desktop or enterprise-focused
programming is just a matter of deployment, IMHO.

···

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Bryce Kerley <bkerley@brycekerley.net> wrote:

On Jan 23, 2015, at 12:39, arnuld uttre <arnuld.mizong@gmail.com> wrote:

I am just puzzled on why community is less focused on
programming and more on web side.

The web side is programming; it’s a compelling way to write and distribute
software, and Rails happens to be an excellent way to work in that
environment. While my day job involves building a database client library,
it’s mostly used by Rails or other web/HTTP applications.

3

The web side is programming; it’s a compelling way to write and distribute software, and Rails happens to be an excellent way to work in that environment. While my day job involves building a database client library, it’s mostly used by Rails or other web/HTTP applications.

···

On Jan 23, 2015, at 12:39, arnuld uttre <arnuld.mizong@gmail.com> wrote:

I am just puzzled on why community is less focused on
programming and more on web side.

4

Thread name: "Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 1
In reply to: arnuld uttre

Hi There,

It is not trolling or Ruby vs Python flame war. In fact it is
completely opposite and a simple and straighforward question, actually
two related questions:

  1) I searched for Jobs in India for Python and Ruby and I see 7-9
out of 10 jobs in Ruby are for Ruby-on-Rails. Very very few positions
are for real computer programming/software-development using Ruby. In
case of Python, 5-6 are for Django while rest are computer
programming/software-development. Why it is so ?

because Ruby is a swiss army-knife for the web, not for other kind of
work.

The real is that you can do almost ANYTHING with ruby, but not rubist,
think like "ruby is for the web only"

2) I searched Ruby Talk mailing list archives on learning Ruby and
most of the posts on learning were related with learning in context to
Ruby-on-Rails. In case of Python (comp.lang.python), half of the posts
were talking about learning Python as a standalone programming
language. Why so ?

Standalone programming for do what? Console's applications are nos so
commercial, so their noise is enough heard in the world.

People speak about rails, because is a very useful tool. Many people
come to Ruby through Rails

I am not talking about the popularity of Python vs Ruby. I am talking
about the community direction/mindset here. I know very well that both
Ruby and Python are powerful and similar in many ways. I just keep on
thinking that why Ruby community is more into web-frameworks while
Python community a lot into programming. I am not biased, I see more
jobs with Python than Ruby but I am still choosing Ruby because I have
programmed in C for 5 years and history of Python shows it is more
influenced by ABC, Modula-2+ and Algol, all of them imperative and
procedural which is kind of same paradigm as C whereas Ruby has more
influence from Perl, Smalltalk and Lisp which are in totally different
paradigms from C and learning a different way of thinking is a better
choice IMHO. I am just puzzled on why community is less focused on
programming and more on web side.

I guest Python com with batteries included; not happen the sameting
with ruby.

RED - Rubiest talk about ruby, and make standalone programing using gems.

GREEN - Pythonics talk about python as "programming"

Future:

Some day, very close, Rails will be an old hat, and Ruby will become
"another useless interpreted lang" for those that never taste it.

That why thins like "mruby" are writings

Greetings from Cuba

···

Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015

5

Thread name: "Re: Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 3
In reply to: Bryce Kerley

>
> I am just puzzled on why community is less focused on
> programming and more on web side.

The web side is programming; it’s a compelling way to write and distribute software, and Rails happens to be an excellent way to work in that environment. While my day job involves building a database client library, it’s mostly used by Rails or other web/HTTP applications.

Reality: can you compile your code to native machine's code??

Ruby: aaaaa.... noop

Reality: stay on the web please

Ruby: and what about android?

Reality: ....

Ruby: yeah I know, ruboto is a bit... weird... but...

Reality: ...

Ruby: Ok, I will stay on the web

···

Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015

On Jan 23, 2015, at 12:39, arnuld uttre <arnuld.mizong@gmail.com> wrote:

6

Thread name: "Re: Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 4
In reply to: NBarnes

I think web programming and development is real programming. We've
always been programming to the platform, and doubly so since the first
compilers. Web programming vs desktop or enterprise-focused
programming is just a matter of deployment, IMHO.

yeah, android programming is crap-programming, also hardware

C'mon, would be GREAT has a Drone progammed in Ruby

···

Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015

7

You can’t use a hammer to install a screw, and a screwdriver isn’t the right tool for putting in nails. For things that Ruby is great at, Ruby is a good choice; but if I have to compile to native code, or make a mobile app, or query a database, I’d be wasting my time trying to make Ruby fit the task instead of using a more appropriate tool.

···

On Jan 23, 2015, at 14:07, Lázaro Armando <lazaro@hcg.sld.cu> wrote:

Reality: can you compile your code to native machine's code??

Ruby: aaaaa.... noop

Reality: stay on the web please

Ruby: and what about android?

Reality: ....

Ruby: yeah I know, ruboto is a bit... weird... but...

Reality: ...

Ruby: Ok, I will stay on the web

8

Thread name: "Re: Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 2
In reply to: Bryce Kerley

You can’t use a hammer to install a screw, and a screwdriver isn’t
the right tool for putting in nails. For things that Ruby is great
at, Ruby is a good choice; but if I have to compile to native code,
or make a mobile app, or query a database, I’d be wasting my time
trying to make Ruby fit the task instead of using a more appropriate
tool.

the best answer to the initial question in my opinion

···

Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015

9

Thread name: "Re: Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 5
In reply to: Carlos Agarie

Lázaro: GitHub - jimweirich/argus: Ruby API for controlling a Parrot AR Drone

There are some big projects in Ruby that aren't "web programming":

- Vagrant, a tool used for configuring, starting up and managing virtual
machines: https://www.vagrantup.com/
- Metasploit, a tool for penetration testing: http://www.metasploit.com/

Ruby is a great scripting language and you can do a lot of things with it.
Following Bryce Kerley's answer, you just have to find the correct
hammer/nail combination. :slight_smile:

yeah, and what about Cinch, and xmpp-4r and (insert other awesome gem
here)

good project all

But, we do not talk about Ruby as programming lang, for Rubiest, ruby
es "a thing" that give you a way through gems to become your idea a
"real thing"

···

Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015

10

Lázaro: GitHub - jimweirich/argus: Ruby API for controlling a Parrot AR Drone

There are some big projects in Ruby that aren't "web programming":

- Vagrant, a tool used for configuring, starting up and managing virtual
machines: https://www.vagrantup.com/
- Metasploit, a tool for penetration testing: http://www.metasploit.com/

Ruby is a great scripting language and you can do a lot of things with it.
Following Bryce Kerley's answer, you just have to find the correct
hammer/nail combination. :slight_smile:

···

-----
Carlos Agarie
Software Engineer
+55 11 97320-3878 | @carlos_agarie

2015-01-23 17:09 GMT-02:00 Lázaro Armando <lazaro@hcg.sld.cu>:

Thread name: "Re: Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 4
Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015
In reply to: NBarnes
>
> I think web programming and development is real programming. We've
> always been programming to the platform, and doubly so since the first
> compilers. Web programming vs desktop or enterprise-focused
> programming is just a matter of deployment, IMHO.

yeah, android programming is crap-programming, also hardware

C'mon, would be GREAT has a Drone progammed in Ruby

11

Hi There,

It is not trolling or Ruby vs Python flame war. In fact it is
completely opposite and a simple and straighforward question, actually
two related questions:

  1) I searched for Jobs in India for Python and Ruby and I see 7-9
out of 10 jobs in Ruby are for Ruby-on-Rails. Very very few positions
are for real computer programming/software-development using Ruby. In

What is unreal about Rails?

case of Python, 5-6 are for Django while rest are computer
programming/software-development. Why it is so ?

2) I searched Ruby Talk mailing list archives on learning Ruby and
most of the posts on learning were related with learning in context to
Ruby-on-Rails. In case of Python (comp.lang.python), half of the posts
were talking about learning Python as a standalone programming
language. Why so ?

I am not talking about the popularity of Python vs Ruby. I am talking
about the community direction/mindset here. I know very well that both
Ruby and Python are powerful and similar in many ways. I just keep on
thinking that why Ruby community is more into web-frameworks while
Python community a lot into programming. I am not biased, I see more
jobs with Python than Ruby but I am still choosing Ruby because I have
programmed in C for 5 years and history of Python shows it is more
influenced by ABC, Modula-2+ and Algol, all of them imperative and
procedural which is kind of same paradigm as C whereas Ruby has more
influence from Perl, Smalltalk and Lisp which are in totally different
paradigms from C and learning a different way of thinking is a better
choice IMHO. I am just puzzled on why community is less focused on
programming and more on web side.

There used to be a lot interesting discussions on language features, meta
programming etc. in "the old days" here. That has dramatically diminished -
as well as the traffic generally. Maybe Rails is so complex that it raises
more questions and needs more explanation? I don't know.

Cheers

robert

···

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 6:39 PM, arnuld uttre <arnuld.mizong@gmail.com> wrote:

--
[guy, jim].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often| as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

12

I don't do web programming either. I mean, I program internal HTTP
APIs, but I can't use Ruby for that (Java is imposed). But I use Ruby
for a thousand things, like HTTP fakes for testing, day to day text
processing (logs, etc), scripting in general (I have an automated
script that reads from Hamster widget sqlite DB and posts into a
internal tool for time tracking, and a hundred other little
utilities). Recently I've used Ruby to do an internal DSL for defining
state machines (underneath it gets translated into Squirrel Framework
calls via JRuby).

So, while I agree that Rails is how most people come to learn Ruby,
I'd say that it's not the only thing you can do with it.

Jesus.

···

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 8:51 PM, Lázaro Armando <lazaro@hcg.sld.cu> wrote:

Thread name: "Re: Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 5
Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015
In reply to: Carlos Agarie

Lázaro: GitHub - jimweirich/argus: Ruby API for controlling a Parrot AR Drone

There are some big projects in Ruby that aren't "web programming":

- Vagrant, a tool used for configuring, starting up and managing virtual
machines: https://www.vagrantup.com/
- Metasploit, a tool for penetration testing: http://www.metasploit.com/

Ruby is a great scripting language and you can do a lot of things with it.
Following Bryce Kerley's answer, you just have to find the correct
hammer/nail combination. :slight_smile:

yeah, and what about Cinch, and xmpp-4r and (insert other awesome gem
here)

good project all

But, we do not talk about Ruby as programming lang, for Rubiest, ruby
es "a thing" that give you a way through gems to become your idea a
"real thing"

13

  1) I searched for Jobs in India for Python and Ruby and I see 7-9
out of 10 jobs in Ruby are for Ruby-on-Rails. Very very few positions
are for real computer programming/software-development using Ruby. In
case of Python, 5-6 are for Django while rest are computer
programming/software-development. Why it is so ?

Have you considered *nix sysadmin jobs instead? I think Ruby is
gaining popularity in the ops world and it's a great glue language
for spawning other processes.

2) I searched Ruby Talk mailing list archives on learning Ruby and
most of the posts on learning were related with learning in context to
Ruby-on-Rails. In case of Python (comp.lang.python), half of the posts
were talking about learning Python as a standalone programming
language. Why so ?

Probably 90% of the Ruby community exists because of Rails.

Fwiw, I can't stand graphical interfaces or 99% of the "modern" web; but
I still happily maintain unicorn (one of the popular Rack/Rails servers)
and continually experiment with new servers in and outside of Ruby.

To me, programming is just building plumbing to move bytes around.
Maybe it's too easy to do in Ruby and we don't care to talk about it :slight_smile:

Outside of HTTP servers, I've got dtas: duct tape audio suite[1],
with dtas-player being the music player component of it.

From a networking perspective, dtas-player is not unlike mpd (Music
Player Daemon, if you're familiar with that), which isn't too different
than any select/poll-based web server. They all accept connections,
read requests, emit responses, and can even do "server sent events".
The key difference is dtas-player is built to execute arbitrary shell
commands :slight_smile:

[1] - http://dtas.80x24.org/ || git clone git://80x24.org/dtas

···

arnuld uttre <arnuld.mizong@gmail.com> wrote:

14

Ruby is a tool and you have to use it what its best fit for.

···

On 24-Jan-2015 12:57 am, "Carlos Agarie" <carlos.agarie@gmail.com> wrote:

Lázaro: GitHub - jimweirich/argus: Ruby API for controlling a Parrot AR Drone

There are some big projects in Ruby that aren't "web programming":

- Vagrant, a tool used for configuring, starting up and managing virtual
machines: https://www.vagrantup.com/
- Metasploit, a tool for penetration testing: http://www.metasploit.com/

Ruby is a great scripting language and you can do a lot of things with it.
Following Bryce Kerley's answer, you just have to find the correct
hammer/nail combination. :slight_smile:

-----
Carlos Agarie
Software Engineer
+55 11 97320-3878 | @carlos_agarie

2015-01-23 17:09 GMT-02:00 Lázaro Armando <lazaro@hcg.sld.cu>:

Thread name: "Re: Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 4
Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015
In reply to: NBarnes
>
> I think web programming and development is real programming. We've
> always been programming to the platform, and doubly so since the first
> compilers. Web programming vs desktop or enterprise-focused
> programming is just a matter of deployment, IMHO.

yeah, android programming is crap-programming, also hardware

C'mon, would be GREAT has a Drone progammed in Ruby

15

FYI, RubyMotion compiles your Ruby code to machine code and targets Android
(as well as iOS and OS X). http://rubymotion.com

···

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 8:07 PM, Lázaro Armando <lazaro@hcg.sld.cu> wrote:

Thread name: "Re: Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 3
Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015
In reply to: Bryce Kerley
>
> On Jan 23, 2015, at 12:39, arnuld uttre <arnuld.mizong@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am just puzzled on why community is less focused on
> > programming and more on web side.
>
> The web side is programming; it’s a compelling way to write and
distribute software, and Rails happens to be an excellent way to work in
that environment. While my day job involves building a database client
library, it’s mostly used by Rails or other web/HTTP applications.

Reality: can you compile your code to native machine's code??

Ruby: aaaaa.... noop

Reality: stay on the web please

Ruby: and what about android?

Reality: ....

Ruby: yeah I know, ruboto is a bit... weird... but...

Reality: ...

Ruby: Ok, I will stay on the web

16

+1

If someone needs a non Rails project that is used in many places they can
look at Puppet.

Kind regards

robert

···

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Eric Wong <normalperson@yhbt.net> wrote:

Have you considered *nix sysadmin jobs instead? I think Ruby is
gaining popularity in the ops world and it's a great glue language
for spawning other processes.

To me, programming is just building plumbing to move bytes around.
Maybe it's too easy to do in Ruby and we don't care to talk about it :slight_smile:

--
[guy, jim, charlie].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often| as.you_can -
without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

17

Don't forget 'brew' https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew\!

···

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Lázaro Armando <lazaro@hcg.sld.cu> wrote:

Thread name: "Re: Why 90% of Ruby Community is focussed on Rails"
Mail number: 5
Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2015
In reply to: Carlos Agarie

Lázaro: GitHub - jimweirich/argus: Ruby API for controlling a Parrot AR Drone

There are some big projects in Ruby that aren't "web programming":

- Vagrant, a tool used for configuring, starting up and managing virtual
machines: https://www.vagrantup.com/
- Metasploit, a tool for penetration testing: http://www.metasploit.com/

Ruby is a great scripting language and you can do a lot of things with it.
Following Bryce Kerley's answer, you just have to find the correct
hammer/nail combination. :slight_smile:

yeah, and what about Cinch, and xmpp-4r and (insert other awesome gem
here)

good project all

But, we do not talk about Ruby as programming lang, for Rubiest, ruby
es "a thing" that give you a way through gems to become your idea a
"real thing"

18

What do you mean by that? I do not see that the Ruby language itself
is specifically designed for web programming.

Regards,
Marcus

···

On 23.01.2015 20:04, Lázaro Armando wrote:

because Ruby is a swiss army-knife for the web, not for other kind of
work.

--
GitHub: stomar (Marcus Stollsteimer) · GitHub
PGP: 0x6B3A101A

19

I guess most people came to Ruby because of Rails. Then they needed to learn Ruby because of Rails.
So, they had that mindset already. Not the other way around.

Harry

···

On 2015-01-24 02:39, arnuld uttre wrote:

I am not talking about the popularity of Python vs Ruby. I am talking
about the community direction/mindset here. I know very well that both
Ruby and Python are powerful and similar in many ways. I just keep on
thinking that why Ruby community is more into web-frameworks while
Python community a lot into programming. I am not biased, I see more
jobs with Python than Ruby but I am still choosing Ruby because I have
programmed in C for 5 years and history of Python shows it is more
influenced by ABC, Modula-2+ and Algol, all of them imperative and
procedural which is kind of same paradigm as C whereas Ruby has more
influence from Perl, Smalltalk and Lisp which are in totally different
paradigms from C and learning a different way of thinking is a better
choice IMHO. I am just puzzled on why community is less focused on
programming and more on web side.

--
Karnaugh maps just for fun