Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?
seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
http://www.google.com/search?q=ruby+versus+python
···
On 7/8/06, howachen@gmail.com <howachen@gmail.com> wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?
howachen@gmail.com wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
Hi,
I'm sticking my neck out here a bit, since I'm relatively new to Ruby,
but gonna do it anyway ... :0) [I do have a good amount of experience
in other languages like Java, C, Python]. More knowledgeable Rubyists,
feel free to flame away at what I say below 
I know I'll learn
something from it anyway.
Reason 0: First of all, its not necessarily a matter of preferring Ruby
*over* Python. Its not an either-or situation at all - unless you want
to make it one. Its quite possible to learn and work with more than one
language at the same time, or at least in a staggered/parallel manner.
Many top developers are of the view that learning and using more than
one language is beneficial, helps you grow as a programmer. I believe
that myself. Dave Thomas recently spoke at a No Fluff Just Stuff
interview on this point. I heard the MP3 - it was good. Don't have the
URL right now, try Googling for keywords like +"Dave Thomas" + "NFJS"
or variants.
Reason 1: Ruby is more object-oriented than Python.
Reason 2: The Principle of Least Surprise. You can, to a good extent,
almost figure out how parts of the language / syntax work, after you've
learnt a bit of it. Read the Pickaxe and other Ruby books and the docs
to see more on what this means.
I've been writing some Ruby code and can attest to it.
Reason 3: No indentation rules like in Python. Just open the logical
construct like if or while with its corresponding keyword ("if" /
"while"), close it with "end". Though I'm an experienced developer and
a very good typist, Python's syntax rules recently almost drove me mad,
trying to track down an elusive bug that was related to indentation.
The rules of indentation themselves are straightforward enough. The
problem arises when you accidentally, say, mix spaces and tabs, or, if
you're not using tabs (which is probably better), put in one more or
less space - stuff like that. This was not the problem in my case,
since I consistently use tabs. The problem arose - I think - because I
was switching text editors (Metapad and GVim on windows) at times in a
coding session. This somehow led to the changing of some tabs to
spaces. Hard to detect visually in a Windows style editor like Metapad.
Using the ":se list" option in GVim can help, but it still takes time
to track down and change all those spaces back to tabs. One can argue
away that one should not change editors in the middle of a session,
etc., but the point is that this problem simply would not happen in
Ruby, even if you switch editors midway.
Though I like Python a lot, this is one reason why I'm moving some of
my work to Ruby.
[ I finally did manage to identify and fix the problem. ]
I'm sure you'll get some other replies, which I'll read with interest
...
HTH
Vasudev
···
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vasudev Ram
Independent software consultant
PDF conversion toolkit:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi --
···
On Sat, 8 Jul 2006, howachen@gmail.com wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
I can give you the answer in my case: love. I fell in love with the
Ruby language, and subsequently with the Ruby culture and community.
That gives you a much more lucid, rigorous account of my experience
than anything I can say about blocks, significant whitespace, or other
language features possibly could.
David
--
"To fully realize the potential of Rails, it's crucial that you take
the time to fully understand Ruby--and with "Ruby for Rails" David
has provided just what you need to help you achieve that goal."
-- DAVID HEINEMEIER HANSSON, in the foreword to RUBY FOR RAILS.
Complete foreword & sample chapters at http://www.manning.com/black\!
RoR is irrelevant to it.
Ruby is love.
Python is bondage.
I choose love.
Kirk Haines
···
On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 howachen@gmail.com wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?
howachen@gmail.com wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?
The Ruby community is better-looking.
···
--
James Britt
"The use of anthropomorphic terminology when dealing with
computing systems is a symptom of professional immaturity."
- Edsger W. Dijkstra
As a longtime Perler, I dislike Python's significant whitespace. That's why
I could never go for it. Ruby just feels right to me. I enjoy writing it
and it feels liberating when I do.
I still like Perl, but Ruby is quickly winning me over.
howachen@gmail.com wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
Go ask this same question over on comp.lang.python and you'll see why
you might prefer ruby.
Did you see the lovely young ladies (I hope you know who you are) at the last RubyConf?
-- Matt
It's not what I know that counts. It's what I can remember in time to use.
···
On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 howachen@gmail.com wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?
As someone who has used both languages for various projects I would say
that I honestly have more fun programming in Ruby. It fits the way I
think better and therefore is more intuitive than Python IMHO. The
languages are similar in nature and if you learn one then learning the
other shouldn't be too tough. The other external factor (other than
personal experience) is the community. As others have posted the Ruby
community is active, helpful, patient, and funny. Not every language
necessarily can say that...
howachen@gmail.com wrote:
···
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
unknown wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
They are both excellent so you will not be unhappy with either.
The significant whitespace was really the decider for me personally.
···
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.
Jeffrey Schwab wrote:
> 2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
Perl makes it easy to write clear, readable code. Perl also makes it
easy to write incredibly dense, ugly code. Blaming the language for
crappy code is like blaming a bicycle for not having training wheels
welded to the frame.
Actually, one of the reasons why I am looking at Ruby is because it
ieasier on a Perl person like me, as opposed to Python. Plus it is so
much cleaner as an OOP language -- more like Objective C / SmallTalk,
rather than Java/C++.
Okay, I've attracted to Ruby because of RoR. But, I've learned that Ruby
is much more than that.
1) It supports blocks: I've heard that Python will support this, but I
couldn't find
any explanation regarding that in Python Tutorial.
2) OOP style codes: I hate mentioning self everytime I want to instance
methods.
3) quit: I can quit irb using 'quit'. Python urges me to press CTRL+D though
it knows
that I want to quit.
4) inject: inject is very interesting and powerful. I don't know how python
programmers
are handling the situtation where inject fits.
Sincerely,
Minkoo Seo
···
On 7/8/06, howachen@gmail.com <howachen@gmail.com> wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
What about GUI programming?
howachen@gmail.com wrote:
···
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
1) Ruby groks better than Python ... at least for me.
2) Meta-programming is much, much easier in Ruby than in Python (this
is what makes Rails the dreamboat framework that it is) [did I just
type "dreamboat" - sheez!]
3) Principal of least surprise
3a) In Ruby, when you learn how "each" works for an array you know how
it is going to work for every other object
3b) In Python I find myself continually looking through the documentation
4) Matz answers questions on the ruby-talk mailing list -- I'm not
saying Guido does not answer questions on the Python mailing lists,
it's just cool that Matz takes the time to listen and help out the
community on top of everything else he does
What I do like about Python is how the documentation is built right
into the language. That is the biggest feature I wish Ruby had. That
and Python's speed -- long live YARV.
Blessings,
Tim Pease
···
On 7/8/06, howachen@gmail.com <howachen@gmail.com> wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
Aside from the obvious argument that making filesep '\' in DOS was the
first mistake, I'm curious what command-line programs are useful
enough that you shell out from the language you're writing in?
Tim Hammerquist
···
Jeffrey Schwab <jeff@schwabcenter.com> wrote:
The one thing that sticks in my craw about Ruby is that
File::Separator is a forward-slash ('/') on Windows. This is just
wrong, and it means I have to replace the slashes with back-slashes
manually before passing file paths to command-line programs. If you
pass a Windows program a path like /some/path, the program will try
to interpret path elements as switches. It's almost the equivalent
of having File::Separator be a hyphen ('-') on Unix.
unknown wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?
This may be a trivial reason to most people, but it makes a huge
difference to me. I find it _much_ easier to turn .rb scripts into
standalone .exe executbales on Windows. I've used Python's py2exe and it
works OK, but Ruby's rubyscript2exe is far better and far easier to use.
I wish Ruby had more Win32 native libraries (like Python), but I can use
win32API and win32ole for most purposes. And, Ruby is catching up with
better library support.
Also, I've written a lot of py code and ruby code, and I can say that I
like them both, but in general ruby is more flexible and thus more
enjoyable for me personally.
···
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.
newbie asks: is it true that python does NOT support containers simply
like ruby does?
ie.
a=<< an array container
a<<[0,1,2]
a<<{"me"=>"i think","you"=>"you think"}
and then use .each iterater to process this container....
howachen@gmail.com wrote:
···
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?seems to many users, they are very similar in nature...
such as
1. non C or Java style syntax
2. focus on codes readability, not like Perl
3. ..
James Britt wrote:
···
howachen@gmail.com wrote:
Besides ROR, can you give me a reason why perfer ruby instead of
python?The Ruby community is better-looking.
And more modest.
vasudevram wrote:
Hi,
I'm sticking my neck out here a bit, since I'm relatively new to Ruby,
but gonna do it anyway ... :0) [I do have a good amount of experience
in other languages like Java, C, Python]. More knowledgeable Rubyists,
feel free to flame away at what I say below
something from it anyway.
Not so much flames as challenges ...
Reason 0: First of all, its not necessarily a matter of preferring Ruby
*over* Python. Its not an either-or situation at all - unless you want
to make it one. Its quite possible to learn and work with more than one
language at the same time, or at least in a staggered/parallel manner.
Many top developers are of the view that learning and using more than
one language is beneficial, helps you grow as a programmer.
I have found that switching languages rapidly, frequently, even in a
"staggered/parallel" manner is for the most part counter-productive.
Programming in *any* language is an activity that requires a mix of
intense focus on the programming tasks *and* an intensely active
communication in a spoken human language with customers and colleagues.
Add multiple programming languages and you lose focus.
Occasionally a project will need multiple languages. I've found those go
slower and are more difficult than projects where you can wallow in your
knowledge of a single language and a single application domain. I pity a
programmer who has to write a Ruby - FORTRAN bridge that is called by a
Java ERP application for an engineering firm located in Quebec.
Yes, indeed, learning multiple languages does help you grow, provided
they aren't too similar. There's a note about that on someone's blog --
give me a day or so and I can track it down. But briefly, he claimed --
and I somewhat agree -- that there are two broad classes of language.
There's the "Algol Family", into which class C/C++, Java, Python, Ruby,
Perl, etc. fall, and there's the "Lisp Family". If you're like most of
us, you spend most of your time in the Algol family. His point was that
you grow more if you learn a Lisp family language than if you learn
another Algol family language.
Incidentally, where I disagree is that I think there are six families:
1. Macro assemblers
2. Algol
3. Lisp
4. APL
5. Forth
6. Smalltalk
One of the things that's attractive to me about Ruby is that it contains
features from most of the six. I haven't found much of APL or Forth, but
there are clearly influences from Algol, Lisp, Smalltalk and macro
assembler.
Reason 1: Ruby is more object-oriented than Python.
Well ... Ruby objects were there from day one, and they resemble
"classical" object concepts like those in Smalltalk, C++ and Java, but I
don't think *today's* Python is "less object-oriented" than *today's*
Ruby, nor do I think Ruby is "more object-oriented" than R, Lisp or Scheme.
Reason 2: The Principle of Least Surprise. You can, to a good extent,
almost figure out how parts of the language / syntax work, after you've
learnt a bit of it. Read the Pickaxe and other Ruby books and the docs
to see more on what this means.
I've been writing some Ruby code and can attest to it.
I haven't found Ruby code all that obvious to a newcomer. I've been
programming a long time, and I have a programming style that evolved
from macro assembler to FORTRAN to Perl to R, with influences from Lisp,
FORTH and Java.
Part of it is that I'm very much more familiar and comfortable with
functional programming than I am with object-oriented programming. In my
younger days, I was actually one of those people who went around on long
tirades declaiming that Functional Programming was the one true way.
I thought pure functional languages had a lot going for them. I still do.
I spent about three hours last night trying to understand Hal Fulton's
well-crafted example of metaprogramming that reads CSV files. I know it
will make sense to me eventually, but it didn't after three hours. I
know it's "good code", I know it's "elegant code", I know it's an
example of the wonders of Ruby, and I know it works. But I still don't
know why.
Reason 3: No indentation rules like in Python. Just open the logical
construct like if or while with its corresponding keyword ("if" /
"while"), close it with "end". Though I'm an experienced developer and
a very good typist, Python's syntax rules recently almost drove me mad,
trying to track down an elusive bug that was related to indentation.
The rules of indentation themselves are straightforward enough. The
problem arises when you accidentally, say, mix spaces and tabs, or, if
you're not using tabs (which is probably better), put in one more or
less space - stuff like that. This was not the problem in my case,
since I consistently use tabs. The problem arose - I think - because I
was switching text editors (Metapad and GVim on windows) at times in a
coding session. This somehow led to the changing of some tabs to
spaces. Hard to detect visually in a Windows style editor like Metapad.
Using the ":se list" option in GVim can help, but it still takes time
to track down and change all those spaces back to tabs. One can argue
away that one should not change editors in the middle of a session,
etc., but the point is that this problem simply would not happen in
Ruby, even if you switch editors midway.
Well ... there are language-specific IDEs for Python. If I were
planning/required to learn Python, I'd probably use Leo. I've got Leo
and if I can get it integrated with the languages I do use, Perl, R and
Ruby, I'll give it a shot. And there are language-specific IDEs for
Ruby. But don't *real* programmers use Emacs?
<ducking>
Actually, I've never bothered to learn Emacs. It had a (justified)
reputation as a memory hog, so I learned vi. I'm pretty sure GNU Emacs
is no longer a memory hog, but I'm so firmly down the "vim" path that
Emacs seems like a distraction.