Bullying / Censorship on r/ruby - A Welcoming Programming Community?

Hello,

   Not really expecting any solidarity - I am just posting here for reference
  what happened in the last days (and months) on r/ruby.

   I am a long time ruby open source nut case (10+ years, 200+ gems, and so on).

   I used to post once a week on r/ruby - sometime twice.
   The hatred, bullying and censorship all started maybe with my (critical)
  series on the CSV library or maybe with my crypto postings that some think
   are spam (disclaimer: I am a no-coiner, that is, I do not own any
blockchain tokens)
   and for sure the intended humor gets lost (I am not a native
English speaker - ironically I am Austrian).

   Anyways, back to the last days on r/ruby:

  The post:
pixelart gem in Action - Special Effects Gallery / Cheatsheet - Free
Ideas & Recipes for Starting Your Own CryptoPunks Collection Today [1]

  gets downvoted as usual to zero by the hater brigade.

  The next post:
Wall Street Bets Experiment - Power to the Punks - Generate Your Own
Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades (from
Scratch) [2]

  gets out right removed / censored without notice.

  The next post asking for an explanation (since this happened already
dozens of times without getting any notice):

"Random" Censorship on r/ruby - Please, Explain Why You Keeping
Removing My Posts [3]

   gets the mod declaring my posts are spam and having nothing to do
with ruby and so on
    my comment stands at -9 votes or more.

   The next two posts following the advice on rewriting the headline
"in a more ruby way":

   Wall Street Bets Ruby Pixel Art Experiment - Power to the Punks -
Generate Your Own Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with
Shades (from Scratch) Using ChunkyPNG

   Q: I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can I draw
lego-like bricks in any color in ruby? What do you think is the best
way?

    get out right removed / censored without notice.

   And today's post

   I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can I draw
lego-like bricks in any color in ruby?

    for sure will get removed / censored soon too.

   Anyways, I have started r/planetruby [4] that restores some old
removed / censored posts
    Judge yourself.
    If I dare to say the hatred / bullying and censoring on r/ruby is
getting out of hand.

   Cheers. Prost.

[1] pixelart gem in Action - Special Effects Gallery / Cheatsheet - Free Ideas & Recipes for Starting Your Own CryptoPunks Collection Today : ruby
[2] Wall Street Bets Experiment - Power to the Punks - Generate Your Own Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades (from Scratch) : ruby
[3] "Random" Censorship on r/ruby - Please, Explain Why You Keeping Removing My Posts : ruby
[4] All About Programming Ruby

To reiterate how others have already responded to your previous posts, I think people are confused by your verbose/long-winded title, and assume that it’s just spam and/or not really ruby related.

I would have titled this something like:

Pixel Art in Ruby — Generate your own /r/wallstreetbets logo

Maybe you could mention “…using ChunkyPNG” at the end.

But I wouldn’t say “Wall Street Bets Experiment”, or "Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades”, or anything so confusing and convoluted. To most people, it probably looks like a bot posting nonsense advertising a financial scam.

···

On 2 Aug 2021, at 14:14, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

Wall Street Bets Experiment - Power to the Punks - Generate Your Own
Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades (from
Scratch)

As a casual reader of this forum, I will add my voice that I think that I saw each of the posts you refer to and thought that they were all come-ons to buy something from you (or at least to use your library of something I have no interest in). I’m sorry if you are feeling bullied (it’s easy for that to happen in electronic media, where intent is often lost in the voice of the message), but the same appears to be true of your posts — the voice comes through as hyping something for sale, not offering a free library. And it’s shown up multiple times despite no activity, which just amplifies the spam voice (it would be different if there were responses to your posts asking questions about the library or encouraging your efforts, etc.). I’m not trying to be hurtful here, just to point out how it appears to me in the hope that you can figure out how to word your posts to avoid this confusion.

Cheeers.

···

On Aug 2, 2021, at 7:20 AM, Tom Lord <lord.thom@gmail.com> wrote:

To reiterate how others have already responded to your previous posts, I think people are confused by your verbose/long-winded title, and assume that it’s just spam and/or not really ruby related.

I would have titled this something like:

> Pixel Art in Ruby — Generate your own /r/wallstreetbets logo

Maybe you could mention “…using ChunkyPNG” at the end.

But I wouldn’t say “Wall Street Bets Experiment”, or "Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades”, or anything so confusing and convoluted. To most people, it probably looks like a bot posting nonsense advertising a financial scam.

On 2 Aug 2021, at 14:14, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com <mailto:gerald.bauer@gmail.com>> wrote:

Wall Street Bets Experiment - Power to the Punks - Generate Your Own
Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades (from
Scratch)

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Hello,

> To reiterate how others have already responded to your previous
posts, I think people are confused by your verbose/long-winded title,
and assume that it’s just spam and/or not really ruby related

  Sorry for the confusion - the posting was just an example from a
long series (more than a dozen deleted).
  Obviously it's not about the wording. I posted this reworded
headline today and it's gone (without notice):

    Q: I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can I draw
lego-like bricks in any color in ruby?

  Cheers. Prost.

I like the title suggestion by one person to make it more personal. Try “I made a WSB logo using Ruby”. Maybe try using the first person instead of using words like “Your” in generate YOUR own, etc. Avoid second person pronouns. Also Gerald thank you for helping me setup my Ruby environment in this mailing list several years ago, I have been following your work ever since.

Sincerely,
Nicholas Gallimore

···

On Aug 2, 2021, at 10:21 AM, Tom Lord <lord.thom@gmail.com> wrote:

To reiterate how others have already responded to your previous posts, I think people are confused by your verbose/long-winded title, and assume that it’s just spam and/or not really ruby related.

I would have titled this something like:

> Pixel Art in Ruby — Generate your own /r/wallstreetbets logo

Maybe you could mention “…using ChunkyPNG” at the end.

But I wouldn’t say “Wall Street Bets Experiment”, or "Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades”, or anything so confusing and convoluted. To most people, it probably looks like a bot posting nonsense advertising a financial scam.

On 2 Aug 2021, at 14:14, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

Wall Street Bets Experiment - Power to the Punks - Generate Your Own
Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades (from
Scratch)

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Hello,

it appears to me in the hope that you can figure out how to word your posts to avoid this confusion

   Again it's not about the wording - it's a dedicated (small) group
of bullies downvoting everything - gaming the system - to make me go
away and one or more mods play along. Example from two weeks ago - I
posted to r/ruby and r/datasets and r/opendata:

   Flat Data "Git Scraping" Case Study - 260 (CIA World) Factbook
County Profile Datasets Updated Twice Per Month On GitHub For Easy
Re(Use)

    On r/ruby it got downvoted to zero. On r/datasets 40+ votes and
r/opendata 6+ upvotes or such.

   And so it goes. I understand that you are not interested in 2D
graphics / pixel art, crypto, open data, and so on.

   I guess it's all about rails but ironically there's a r/rails
channel. What's today's top post on r/ruby it's:

   Hotwire Turbo Replacing Rails UJS

  and so it goes.
   Cheers. Prost.

Hello,

I like the title suggestion by one person to make it more personal.
Try “I made a WSB logo using Ruby”. Maybe try using the first person instead of using words like “Your” in generate YOUR own, etc. Avoid second person pronouns.

   I reposted yesterday:

  Question: I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can I
draw lego-like bricks in any color in ruby? What do you think is the
best way?

   And today I tried:

   Question: I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can
I draw lego-like bricks in any color in ruby?

  Both posts got removed without notice. It's hard for me to track
because I am logged in and I only see if the post got removed if I am
logged out (that is, in practical terms I have to use a different
browser). It looks I have to assume I am (quasi-)banned now and it's
not paranoia that my posts get removed but it's for real.

thank you for helping me setup my Ruby environment in this mailing list several years ago, I have been following your work ever since

   Thanks for your kind words. Cheers. Prost.

Hello,

What's today's top post on r/ruby it's:

  Hotwire Turbo Replacing Rails UJS

  And if I may add for double standards:

   It's posted by Drifting Ruby Screencasts. The page says:

Simple, fair pricing. Invest in your education.

STUDENT & TEACHER $9/mo
PRO MONTHLY $15/mo
and so on.

   Now compare to let's say what I "hype up":

   Crypto Punk's Not Dead [1], Ruby Code Commons [2] or Planet Ruby [3].

  Again tell me what I am trying to sell you. Cheers. Prost.

[1] CryptoPunks Not Dead - 24×24 Pixel Art on the Blockchain! · GitHub
[2] Ruby Code Commons (COCO) Libraries / Gems · GitHub
[3] Planet Ruby · GitHub

Hello,

  Just for the record the links to the reworded postings:

  Question: I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can I
draw lego-like bricks in any color in ruby? What do you think is the
best way?

   [1]

   Question: I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can
I draw lego-like bricks in any color in ruby?

   [2]

  Both posts got removed without notice.

[1] I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can I draw lego-like bricks in any color in ruby? What do you think is the best way? : ruby
[2] I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can I draw lego-like bricks in any color in ruby? : ruby

Ruby's got to be one of the more welcoming communities I would say.
#minaswan

···

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM Nick Gallimore <nfgallimore@gmail.com> wrote:

I like the title suggestion by one person to make it more personal. Try “I
made a WSB logo using Ruby”. Maybe try using the first person instead of
using words like “Your” in generate YOUR own, etc. Avoid second person
pronouns. Also Gerald thank you for helping me setup my Ruby environment in
this mailing list several years ago, I have been following your work ever
since.

Sincerely,
Nicholas Gallimore

On Aug 2, 2021, at 10:21 AM, Tom Lord <lord.thom@gmail.com> wrote:

To reiterate how others have already responded to your previous posts, I
think people are confused by your verbose/long-winded title, and assume
that it’s just spam and/or not really ruby related.

I would have titled this something like:

> Pixel Art in Ruby — Generate your own /r/wallstreetbets logo

Maybe you could mention “…using ChunkyPNG” at the end.

But I wouldn’t say “Wall Street Bets Experiment”, or "Cool Looking Wall
Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades”, or anything so confusing and
convoluted. To most people, it probably looks like a bot posting nonsense
advertising a financial scam.

On 2 Aug 2021, at 14:14, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

Wall Street Bets Experiment - Power to the Punks - Generate Your Own
Cool Looking Wall Street Bets Degenerate Trader with Shades (from
Scratch)

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he
is to be ultimately at peace with himself.
- Abraham Maslow

I can offer some insight into this, as someone who mods a couple of active
cooking subreddits. The three issues I see are:

- excessively long and hodgepodge titles look like spam (usually someone
promoting their blog or youtube channel)
- a large number of posts, especially similar ones, from a single user,
gets annoying, and people start hitting the report button
- many subreddits have the automoderator set up to automatically delete
posts that get a certain number of reports, since it makes spam handling
tractable.

We have had cases of posters submitting genuinely high quality content, but
just too much of it, so that people felt it was cluttering up the
subreddit, and we had to ask them to tone down the frequency of their
posting.

My main advice to you would be to look through the titles of a few hundred
/r/ruby posts, and see whether yours fit in or stick out; that's often used
consciously or unconsciously as a sign of a spammer.

martin

···

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 7:34 AM Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

> To reiterate how others have already responded to your previous
posts, I think people are confused by your verbose/long-winded title,
and assume that it’s just spam and/or not really ruby related

  Sorry for the confusion - the posting was just an example from a
long series (more than a dozen deleted).
  Obviously it's not about the wording. I posted this reworded
headline today and it's gone (without notice):

    Q: I am working on pixel art experiment with ruby - How can I draw
lego-like bricks in any color in ruby?

  Cheers. Prost.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

I will go with this one too. I have seen so many post form you that looked
the same, or at least on the same topic, that I have taken to mentally
filtering you out as a spammer

The titles are too clickbait for me and it has gotten to the point that
seeing your name alone is enough to make me skip the post

This might not be what you intend, but this is how you are presenting
yourself

Gerald Bauer wrote:

   Not really expecting any solidarity - I am just posting here for reference
  what happened in the last days (and months) on r/ruby.

   I am a long time ruby open source nut case (10+ years, 200+ gems, and so on).

   I used to post once a week on r/ruby - sometime twice.
   The hatred, bullying and censorship all started maybe with my (critical)
  series on the CSV library or maybe with my crypto postings that some think
   are spam (disclaimer: I am a no-coiner, that is, I do not own any
blockchain tokens)
   and for sure the intended humor gets lost (I am not a native
English speaker - ironically I am Austrian).

I for one have experienced censorship and disdain from the Ruby
community simply for the way I speak (my tone).

Curiously enough just today I posted an article regarding censorship in
online communities on my blog.

For me the central problem is that people have forgotten what freedom of
speech actually is. Or another way to put it is that there's no
discussion anymore about why censorship is bad.

And make no mistake about it: censorship *is* bad.

https://felipec.wordpress.com/2021/08/02/freedom-of-speech-in-online-communities/

···

--
Felipe Contreras

1 Like

Sean Felipe Wolfe wrote:

Ruby's got to be one of the more welcoming communities I would say.
#minaswan

Perhaps welcoming to you, and people like you, but that's not how a
"welcoming community" is defined.

The Litmus test for a welcoming community is accepting a new member with
ideas that drastically differ from the majority.

Name one prominent member of the Ruby community with ideas drastically
different from matz's.

···

--
Felipe Contreras

The Ruby community for me has been pretty wonderful. I know Matz + the
community have worked to make it so. Of course, I can only speak from my
experience.

···

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 7:53 PM Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com> wrote:

Sean Felipe Wolfe wrote:
> Ruby's got to be one of the more welcoming communities I would say.
> #minaswan

Perhaps welcoming to you, and people like you, but that's not how a
"welcoming community" is defined.

The Litmus test for a welcoming community is accepting a new member with
ideas that drastically differ from the majority.

Name one prominent member of the Ruby community with ideas drastically
different from matz's.

--
Felipe Contreras

--
A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he
is to be ultimately at peace with himself.
- Abraham Maslow

Hello,

   For sure many (if not most) in the ruby community are nice and
friendly and act in good faith.

   But let's face it there are also some serious dedicated haters out
there (sometimes it's not against the world but it's personal). I
actually know some intelligent and talented long-time rubyists that
want me banned by name - as stated so publicly (in anger) not only
once on r/ruby

   Anyways, I'm humbled. by Richard Schneeman - the r/ruby mod -
looking into the cause is beyond all words.
For sure I am a human and a random nobody and yes, I have my fair
share of faults. I want to say sorry to Richard Schneeman if he feels
like I am blaming or attacking him personally.

   And yes, if I am not misreading the report it looks like ALL my
r/ruby posts have been marked as spam at least once many multiple
times - so it looks like if you have some haters bullying you - it's
easy for them to game the system (they stay anonymous, of course) -
and there's nothing you can do...

  ... but listening to some rubyists going on how to rewrite the
posting headlines.

    May I rephrase the ruby philosophy - there are many ways to write
a posting headline.
If I may give you this good writing (style) advice - for god's sake if
it's a ruby forum do NOT put ruby in your headline!
It's clutter. Cut it out. And yes, try some humour.

    Cheers. Prost.

Reddit is a shitshow... If you take it personally you're going to have a bad time. I got into fostering cats to help deal with it back in the day.

Frankly I find your posts here to be incredibly noisy and only incidentally related to ruby. I think the mailing list was doomed to die out as dialog has been on a steady decline on the internet for the past two decades.

But I definitely see your increase of incessant posts about blockchain and soccer as a contributing factor.

···

On Aug 2, 2021, at 06:14, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

   If I dare to say the hatred / bullying and censoring on r/ruby is
getting out of hand.

Wow! Ryan Davi's statement is incredibly arrogant.

saji

···

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 5:41 AM Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:

> On Aug 2, 2021, at 06:14, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If I dare to say the hatred / bullying and censoring on r/ruby is
> getting out of hand.

Reddit is a shitshow... If you take it personally you're going to have a
bad time. I got into fostering cats to help deal with it back in the day.

Frankly I find your posts here to be incredibly noisy and only
incidentally related to ruby. I think the mailing list was doomed to die
out as dialog has been on a steady decline on the internet for the past two
decades.

But I definitely see your increase of incessant posts about blockchain and
soccer as a contributing factor.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--

1 Like

Hi Gerald and all,

Keep strong Gerald! You're too important for the Ruby community to be
upset with small things like that.

(I will not give my opinion about Reddit because I don't use it
oftenly and don't know what is the netiquette over there.)

Regarding Ruby Talk... Thanks to the filtering capabilities of any
email client / service, anybody that thinks Gerald's content is not
relevant can just opt to filter them out, checking it only if
necessary. I think this is normal.
It's not normal to suppose some kind of content will be (or should be)
interesting for everybody.
It's not normal to suppose that what seems like spam for a culture /
country will seem the same for others.
Gerald's messages at Ruby Talk, as far as being related to Ruby,
should not even be subject of discussion over this thread.

We are an international community known by its kindness, its openness,
its diversity.
I think Gerald received a lot of sincere feedback here. Some of them
were really tough to read.
But I think we should not try to box someone that thinks out of the
box (in the best sense) like him.

That's my humble opinion. I love this community as a whole (not only this list)!

Best regards,
Abinoam Jr.

···

Em dom., 8 de ago. de 2021 às 10:35, Saji Hameed <saji@u-aizu.ac.jp> escreveu:

Wow! Ryan Davi's statement is incredibly arrogant.

saji

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 5:41 AM Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:

> On Aug 2, 2021, at 06:14, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If I dare to say the hatred / bullying and censoring on r/ruby is
> getting out of hand.

Reddit is a shitshow... If you take it personally you're going to have a bad time. I got into fostering cats to help deal with it back in the day.

Frankly I find your posts here to be incredibly noisy and only incidentally related to ruby. I think the mailing list was doomed to die out as dialog has been on a steady decline on the internet for the past two decades.

But I definitely see your increase of incessant posts about blockchain and soccer as a contributing factor.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--

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1 Like

Gerald's score on the spectrum of contribution is way higher then most others.
He's actually done a lot of things for the benefit of many.

He gets a pass---and unqualified support.

So Says I.

cj:)

···

On 8/13/2021 6:44 AM, Abinoam Praxedes Marques Junior wrote:

Hi Gerald and all,

Keep strong Gerald! You're too important for the Ruby community to be
upset with small things like that.

(I will not give my opinion about Reddit because I don't use it
oftenly and don't know what is the netiquette over there.)

Regarding Ruby Talk... Thanks to the filtering capabilities of any
email client / service, anybody that thinks Gerald's content is not
relevant can just opt to filter them out, checking it only if
necessary. I think this is normal.
It's not normal to suppose some kind of content will be (or should be)
interesting for everybody.
It's not normal to suppose that what seems like spam for a culture /
country will seem the same for others.
Gerald's messages at Ruby Talk, as far as being related to Ruby,
should not even be subject of discussion over this thread.

We are an international community known by its kindness, its openness,
its diversity.
I think Gerald received a lot of sincere feedback here. Some of them
were really tough to read.
But I think we should not try to box someone that thinks out of the
box (in the best sense) like him.

That's my humble opinion. I love this community as a whole (not only this list)!

Best regards,
Abinoam Jr.

Em dom., 8 de ago. de 2021 às 10:35, Saji Hameed <saji@u-aizu.ac.jp> escreveu:

Wow! Ryan Davi's statement is incredibly arrogant.

saji

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 5:41 AM Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:

On Aug 2, 2021, at 06:14, Gerald Bauer <gerald.bauer@gmail.com> wrote:

    If I dare to say the hatred / bullying and censoring on r/ruby is
getting out of hand.

Reddit is a shitshow... If you take it personally you're going to have a bad time. I got into fostering cats to help deal with it back in the day.

Frankly I find your posts here to be incredibly noisy and only incidentally related to ruby. I think the mailing list was doomed to die out as dialog has been on a steady decline on the internet for the past two decades.

But I definitely see your increase of incessant posts about blockchain and soccer as a contributing factor.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<This web page could not be loaded.>

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<This web page could not be loaded.>

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--
If you can't set a good example,
    be a glaring warning.

1 Like