Your analytical system is seriously flawed and so is your logic.
Interesting, coming from you. See below.
So what is stopping the Ruby community from wanting one?
The question makes no sense. Nothing is "stopping the Ruby community
from wanting" a mascot. People simply do not want one. The reasons are
in all likelihood multiple, and do not need to be justified.
That's a question which has been asked before, "why" doesn't the Ruby
community want a mascot?
Once again, if the community wanted one, one would already exist.
That's more than obvious. See above.
There you go off at a tangent again.
I do not think tangent means what you think it means.
Taste can sometimes also be absolute.
False. Ludicrous.
All Apple products are tastefully done, that's an accepted fact.
A fact? That's ridiculous, stating that something as subjective as
finding Apple products to feature tasteful design is "an accepted
fact." Laughable, that is.
But then again, taste is a concept obviously alien to you.
Even if that were so (and you have no way of knowing this) I can at
least differentiate between objective and subjective.
It's too late, and I'm too tired to give this the hearty laugh it deserves...
A fact would be that _many_ Apple products have received good reviews for
design -- and even then, "many" is a subjective quantity. (How many? What
percentage? is "many"?)
Closer would be a fact stating that a certain percentage of consumers you
asked approve of Apple's design, in general -- or maybe they approve of the
iPhone, in particular.
Whether they actually _are_ tasteful is opinion, not fact.
In fact, the first iMacs were widely regarded tasteless, at least among people
I know. Were they wrong? If so, why?
···
On Monday 25 August 2008 01:44:15 Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
All Apple products are tastefully done, that's an accepted fact.
The likeliness to the BSD Devil is intentional, Darwin uses a lot of BSD code.
The Darwin kernel (Mach) is mostly pure, but the tools and utils layer
is all BSD.
Similarly, Hexley is basically the Platypus, but one *wearing* and
*bearing* the horned hat and trident.
Perl has the camel.
C and Smalltalk were created in those days when people weren't so much
interested in mascots
Should I talk with Jon Hooper, the creator of Hexley?
Or should I wait till we have enough momentum from the list members?
You should talk to Matz. There's no official Ruby mascot unless Matz
chooses one or delegates someone to do so. And, mercifully, he has so
far done neither
David
--
Rails training from David A. Black and Ruby Power and Light:
Intro to Ruby on Rails January 12-15 Fort Lauderdale, FL
Advancing with Rails January 19-22 Fort Lauderdale, FL
See http://www.rubypal.com for details and updates!
Definitely get more momentum. Looks like 2 for mascot, 5+ against so
far.
Can I hear some defined reasons why people don't like a mascot? Don't
know why a lack of a mascot makes Ruby much better...
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Mayuresh Kathe [mailto:kathe.mayuresh@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:49 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...
The likeliness to the BSD Devil is intentional, Darwin uses a lot of BSD
code.
The Darwin kernel (Mach) is mostly pure, but the tools and utils layer
is all BSD.
Similarly, Hexley is basically the Platypus, but one *wearing* and
*bearing* the horned hat and trident.
Perl has the camel.
C and Smalltalk were created in those days when people weren't so much
interested in mascots
Should I talk with Jon Hooper, the creator of Hexley?
Or should I wait till we have enough momentum from the list members?
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:04 PM, Clinton D. Judy <cdj@goh-inc.com> wrote:
I think it looks cute. It's easy to identify with. My only gripe would
be how loosely Hexley is tied with the BSD Devil; I think that would
need to be either stronger, or just non-existant. But I don't use
Darwin
OS, so...
Does Perl, C, or Smalltalk have a mascot? I'm trying to come up with
starting points. In any case, a cute animal of some kind would be a
winner here.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mayuresh Kathe [mailto:kathe.mayuresh@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:17 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Clinton D. Judy <cdj@goh-inc.com> > wrote:
Which is why a great graphic designer could come up with something
that works well in both worlds. It's possible, but you wouldn't want
someone from either side making something that only works for their
side
of the world.
I'm with the mascot crowd here. I'm a big fan of ruby, but it's much
harder to get attached to a symbol like the ruby. Personifying ANY
language with a mascot makes it more fun.
Plus, stuffed animals for the kids.
- Clinton
-----Original Message-----
From: hramrach@gmail.com [mailto:hramrach@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Michal Suchanek
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...
On 20/08/2008, Mayuresh Kathe <kathe.mayuresh@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Phlip <phlip2005@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
>
>> It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby
gem
>> itself) it doesn't have a mascot.
>
> Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!
From the last discussion on this topic I got the impression that the
reason for this is very pragmatic: there is little hope that a mascot
that appeals to both Asian people and Western people could be found.
Looking, for example, at the Chinese Olympics merchandise I guess I
can understand some of the reasons behind this disagreement.
I think that we must use a kind of artificial animal, like dogs. I mean, an
animal made by human beings because Ruby is for me like the first
programming language that actually speaks like human and has an human
behavior (able to says stuff in different ways).
···
2008/8/20 Michael Libby <michael.c.libby@gmail.com>
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Marc Heiler <shevegen@linuxmail.org> > wrote:
> I suggest a lobster as mascot.
I'd like to suggest a miner (you know, a pick-axe toting miner). Maybe
a younger one, so it could be a minor miner. Or maybe a pick-axe
toting baby Myna bird. Then it's a minor miner Myna.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:49:14PM +0900, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
The likeliness to the BSD Devil is intentional,
--
Chad Perrin [ content licensed PDL: http://pdl.apotheon.org ]
Patrick J. LoPresti: "Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1)
Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk
quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!"
So this guy gets on the plane with a lobster in a box. I ask the guy,
"where'd you get the lobster" and he says, "I bought it in the airport
-- I'm taking it home for dinner"
And the lobster says, "I've already had dinner -- take me to a movie"
···
On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 00:29 +0900, Clinton D. Judy wrote:
Could you make a cute lobster? Or you could go the opposite direction, with an extreme lobster! With razor-sharp claws and all.
-----Original Message-----
From: shevegen@linuxmail.org [mailto:shevegen@linuxmail.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:22 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...
I suggest a lobster as mascot.
--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
ruby-perspectives.blogspot.com
"A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." --
Alfréd Rényi via Paul Erdős
"The OS-tans are the moe anthropomorphism/personification of several
operating systems by various amateur Japanese artists. The OS-tans are
typically depicted as women, with the OS-tans representative of Microsoft
Windows operating systems usually depicted as sisters of varying ages."
It´s an kind of Ruby Prog-tan!
···
2008/8/22 Emmanuel Rubio <emmaheroe@hotmail.com>
i'm a graphic designer. (if you need some one to draw or create
the mascot)
personaly, i think the best of all mascot that Ruby could have is a
racoon it fits perfect with it (not only related to de ruby and the
funny interest of racoons with shiny things) because it is the animal
that always search for the easy way to take what it needs, it is one of
the most agile, smart, fast and dexterous animals in the world (don't
forget that they have learned to use their hands and finger like human
hands and fingers in a lot of their needs) and i think that Ruby is
exactly that, it search the easiest ways to do the things, it is a smart
programing lenguage, and c'mon ruby is the only lenguage that learns to
use every word and object like the human brain... there are a lot of
behaviours more, well it is just my opinion ^^
any way, if you need someone to help with the design of anything just
contact me
Now just show that to most other female Ruby programmers and we'll see
how they feel. I think my girlfriend probably find the manga cute.
But then again, she is Asian, and not put off by nudity.
But I cannot assume the same about most people. How many of you male
programmers would like a large, muscular, naked man as our Ruby logo?
I think that would be awesome, but I'm not sure you'll all agree...
-greg
···
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com>wrote:
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Pablo Q. <paqs140482@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like it! :D, but If you haven´t read all post before please do it,
> 3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version!
cool,
> isn´t it?).
I think the girl is cute, but especially the nude version is a bit
patronizing. We should think about what female programmers will think
of Ruby upon encountering that. I'm sure the feelings will be varied,
but I suspect that'd seem a bit offensive to at least some people.
Well FWIW, I just showed Ruby to a female coworker, and she thought that:
1) She was cute and
2) The nude version showed that she was both flexible, and quite
appropriate for Ruby the language, agile!
What about the gem from the front cover of the famous book, with a
tail, (of bacon?) and legs holding a pickaxe? That way it could be
naked too __and__ be female at the same time because no one would know
what the sexuality of the gem was?
I've never understood the emacs logo and I didn't know one for lisp
existed. Is there one for bash, awk, sed....
···
2008/8/22 Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com>:
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com>wrote:
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Pablo Q. <paqs140482@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like it! :D, but If you haven´t read all post before please do it,
> 3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version!
cool,
> isn´t it?).
I think the girl is cute, but especially the nude version is a bit
patronizing. We should think about what female programmers will think
of Ruby upon encountering that. I'm sure the feelings will be varied,
but I suspect that'd seem a bit offensive to at least some people.
Well FWIW, I just showed Ruby to a female coworker, and she thought that:
1) She was cute and
2) The nude version showed that she was both flexible, and quite
appropriate for Ruby the language, agile!
--
Rick DeNatale
: Strange; I'm pretty sure I was on ruby-talk before and during the initial
: mascot proposals, but I'm not able to locate the initial "ruby-chan"
: proposal message in my archives.
:
: Here's an early post that mentions the ruby manga character as
: having been illustrated by a Japanese rubyist (which jibes with
: memory)... but goes on to propose a Ruby Crowned Kinglet
: instead:
:
: http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/14121
:
:
: Anyway, I remember all this from 2001... If we *had* to have a mascot,
: I thought the ruby crowned kinglet was pretty cool...
:
: But I'm perfectly happy with:
:
: >> defined? Mascot
: => nil
:
:
:
* I'm actually not for having official Ruby mascot in any sense.
* And I'm not an apt person to comment on this issue, since I had lost
what mascot proposals are given in the URL mentioned above.
* Ancient history, anyway.
Just to point out the illustration in your memory is perhaps around here:
I would not comment on the points people here are making about what a
mascot should or should not be because that would be a lot of typing
and would only add heat to the discussion I guess.
Anyway it's about somebody drawing something good enough that many
people would use it, various "correctness" concerns aside.
Thanks
Michal
···
On 23/08/2008, Emmanuel Rubio <emmaheroe@hotmail.com> wrote:
Emmanuel Rubio wrote:
> here is a small example about the mascot that i suggest it is just a
> fast design... not to much detailed and a lot of errors but it is quite
> close what i think
>
> what you say?
> http://www.encrucijadaheroes.com.ar/rudycopia.jpg
The most valid response, so far, has been "Ruby doesn't need a mascot!" And to
those people, I would say, "Why would you care if it does?" It's been a long
time since I've thought about penguins, and I use Linux every day.
What seems very strange is that more people seem to be saying "Oh no, what if
someone was offended by it?" than "I, personally, am offended."
Are we that bad that all it takes is the _possibility_ of puritanical outrage
to make us back down?
···
On Friday 22 August 2008 17:14:13 Rick DeNatale wrote:
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Pablo Q. <paqs140482@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I like it! :D, but If you haven´t read all post before please do it,
>
>
> > 3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version!
> cool,
> > isn´t it?).
>
> I think the girl is cute, but especially the nude version is a bit
> patronizing. We should think about what female programmers will think
> of Ruby upon encountering that. I'm sure the feelings will be varied,
> but I suspect that'd seem a bit offensive to at least some people.
>
Well FWIW, I just showed Ruby to a female coworker, and she thought that:
1) She was cute and
2) The nude version showed that she was both flexible, and quite
appropriate for Ruby the language, agile!
All Apple products are tastefully done, that's an accepted fact.
It's too late, and I'm too tired to give this the hearty laugh it deserves...
Bemused chuckle accompanied by a slightly incredulous and rueful
head shake here.
A fact would be that _many_ Apple products have received good reviews for design -- and even then, "many" is a subjective quantity. (How many? What percentage? is "many"?)
Closer would be a fact stating that a certain percentage of consumers you asked approve of Apple's design, in general -- or maybe they approve of the iPhone, in particular.
Whether they actually _are_ tasteful is opinion, not fact.
In fact, the first iMacs were widely regarded tasteless, at least among people I know. Were they wrong? If so, why?
Indeed. Anyone remember when Apple's QuickTime Player was inducted into the Interface Hall of Shame?
Seems like only yesterday. (A quick spot check on the
current Windows version of the player reveals the persistence
of some of these misfeatures after nearly a decade...!
After opening the QuickTime Player application, one still can't drag movies from the desktop onto the weird
QuickTime "home page" window that presents itself by
default. I just launched a movie player application, and
can't drop movies onto it? ... And the volume slider is
not visually disabled, but becomes immobile whenever the
volume has been muted...with no visual cue whatsoever.
I just spent a good 10-15 mouse clicks puzzling over why the volume slider wouldn't move. Maybe because the
movie was paused? No... Hmm... Maybe this movie doesn't
have an audio track? No? ... etc.)
It's clear Apple was attempting to be _stylish_ with
their interface.
But in order for the result to be considered tasteful it
should probably meet some basic criteria like not sucking.
(Ugh... anyway... apologies for the off-topic post.)
Regards,
Bill
···
From: "David Masover" <ninja@slaphack.com>
On Monday 25 August 2008 01:44:15 Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
This thing is going to go on for ever, it's pointless discussing
issues of community building and taste with someone like you.
And this thread has gone on way too long, I will no more post on this thread.
This community is really great, don't want to pollute it with a
discussion that is going no where.
Best,
~Mayuresh
···
On 8/25/08, MRH <mauriceroman@gmail.com> wrote:
> Your analytical system is seriously flawed and so is your logic.
Interesting, coming from you. See below.
> So what is stopping the Ruby community from wanting one?
The question makes no sense. Nothing is "stopping the Ruby community
from wanting" a mascot. People simply do not want one. The reasons are
in all likelihood multiple, and do not need to be justified.
> That's a question which has been asked before, "why" doesn't the Ruby
> community want a mascot?
Once again, if the community wanted one, one would already exist.
That's more than obvious. See above.
> There you go off at a tangent again.
I do not think tangent means what you think it means.
> Taste can sometimes also be absolute.
False. Ludicrous.
> All Apple products are tastefully done, that's an accepted fact.
A fact? That's ridiculous, stating that something as subjective as
finding Apple products to feature tasteful design is "an accepted
fact." Laughable, that is.
> But then again, taste is a concept obviously alien to you.
Even if that were so (and you have no way of knowing this) I can at
least differentiate between objective and subjective.
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
···
From: David A. Black [mailto:dblack@rubypal.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:51 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...
Hi --
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
The likeliness to the BSD Devil is intentional, Darwin uses a lot of
BSD code.
The Darwin kernel (Mach) is mostly pure, but the tools and utils layer
is all BSD.
Similarly, Hexley is basically the Platypus, but one *wearing* and
*bearing* the horned hat and trident.
Perl has the camel.
C and Smalltalk were created in those days when people weren't so much
interested in mascots
Should I talk with Jon Hooper, the creator of Hexley?
Or should I wait till we have enough momentum from the list members?
You should talk to Matz. There's no official Ruby mascot unless Matz
chooses one or delegates someone to do so. And, mercifully, he has so
far done neither
David
--
Rails training from David A. Black and Ruby Power and Light:
Intro to Ruby on Rails January 12-15 Fort Lauderdale, FL
Advancing with Rails January 19-22 Fort Lauderdale, FL
See http://www.rubypal.com for details and updates!
Definitely get more momentum. Looks like 2 for mascot, 5+ against so
far.
Can I hear some defined reasons why people don't like a mascot? Don't
know why a lack of a mascot makes Ruby much better...
If we're gonna have a mascot, can it be one of those guys that dresses
up in a foam rubber suit and dances around during a game? Otherwise I'd
just as soon not have one.
I vaguely recall some creepy post on RubyTalk with someone asking for
a high resolution photo of Matz suitable for hanging on a wall.
If we have a mascot, I vote for a Matzcot*.
-greg
(*) Which of course, is completely a joke. I am very thankful we
don't have a mascot, Ruby isn't a high school football team.
···
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 9:51 AM, David A. Black <dblack@rubypal.com> wrote:
Hi --
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
The likeliness to the BSD Devil is intentional, Darwin uses a lot of BSD
code.
The Darwin kernel (Mach) is mostly pure, but the tools and utils layer
is all BSD.
Similarly, Hexley is basically the Platypus, but one *wearing* and
*bearing* the horned hat and trident.
Perl has the camel.
C and Smalltalk were created in those days when people weren't so much
interested in mascots
Should I talk with Jon Hooper, the creator of Hexley?
Or should I wait till we have enough momentum from the list members?
You should talk to Matz. There's no official Ruby mascot unless Matz
chooses one or delegates someone to do so. And, mercifully, he has so
far done neither
Maybe I am just too conservative about it. I believe Ruby does not
need a mascot. A mascot is something people associate with a product
etc. I would hate if a mascot would imply something about Ruby. I
prefer people see Ruby for what it is.
That said I am not strongly opposed, just slightly, and I do not think
that it will matter a lot.
Cheers
Robert
···
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Clinton D. Judy <cdj@goh-inc.com> wrote:
Definitely get more momentum. Looks like 2 for mascot, 5+ against so
far.
Can I hear some defined reasons why people don't like a mascot? Don't
know why a lack of a mascot makes Ruby much better...
I think that we must use a kind of artificial animal, like dogs. I mean,
an
animal made by human beings because Ruby is for me like the first
programming language that actually speaks like human and has an human
behavior (able to says stuff in different ways).
i'm a graphic designer. 
(if you need some one to draw or create
