simple operations

Thanks, Robert!

Now, it is beginning to feel that we are back in a ruby talk list.

saji

···

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 5:13 PM Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 7:24 PM Sean Felipe Wolfe <ether.joe@gmail.com> > wrote:

For myself, I am a big fan of the "MINASWAN" doctrine in Ruby,

Matz Is Nice And So We Are Nice.

These days I read and post very rarely on ruby-talk but keep the
subscription (maybe some form of nostalgia?). This community used to be
very friendly most of the time and I find it a bit sad that the same sorts
of conflicts start to pop up here as well that we see elsewhere. I guess,
we cannot escape general trends in society. I would love though if we could
keep as much of the friendliness as possible and also retain the occasional
humor.

If someone wants to argue a lot ... maybe time to switch to Python :joy:

:slight_smile:

Kind regards

robert

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often|
as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--

No. Knock that bullshit off.

···

On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

# Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age :wink:

Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
- What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

···

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:

On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

# Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age :wink:

No. Knock that bullshit off.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal thing.
And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding it.

···

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
     - What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> > wrote:
>>
>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age :wink:
> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often| as.you_can
- without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

1 Like

Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.

Sincerely,
Nicholas Gallimore

···

On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:

You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding it.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:
Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
     - What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:
>>
>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age :wink:
> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often| as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is constructive or
congruent with MINSWAN.

···

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM Nick Gallimore <nfgallimore@gmail.com> wrote:

Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.

Sincerely,
Nicholas Gallimore

On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:

You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding it.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
     - What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:
>>
>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age :wink:
> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often| as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Yes, I agree - not constructive (including my statement...)
Any girls there, who want to give some feedback?

Is this a 100%male list??? [then nobody is being hurt :slight_smile: ]

by Opti

···

Am 29.09.21 um 15:46 schrieb NBarnes:

I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is constructive or
congruent with MINSWAN.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM Nick Gallimore <nfgallimore@gmail.com> wrote:

Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.

Sincerely,
Nicholas Gallimore

On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:

You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding it.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
      - What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:

On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

# Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age :wink:

No. Knock that bullshit off.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often| as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Note: you can get hurt even if you do not belong to the group that has been
mocked. Please stop trying to save your blunder and let us get back to
technical topics. Thank you!

···

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 4:16 PM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

Yes, I agree - not constructive (including my statement...)
Any girls there, who want to give some feedback?

Is this a 100%male list??? [then nobody is being hurt :slight_smile: ]

by Opti

Am 29.09.21 um 15:46 schrieb NBarnes:
> I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is constructive or
> congruent with MINSWAN.
>
> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM Nick Gallimore <nfgallimore@gmail.com> > wrote:
>> Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Nicholas Gallimore
>>
>> On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> > wrote:
>>
>> 
>> You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal
thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding
it.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten < > inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> Thank you for that many comments!
>>> Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
>>> someone who can explain it to you?
>>> - What I want to say: keep friendly!
>>> I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
>>> that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans)
have
>>> to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:
>>>
>>> Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be
nice
>>> to you and some others]
>>>
>>> - Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"
>>>
>>> Bye, Opti :slight_smile:
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>>>>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age
:wink:
>>>> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
>>>
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often|
as.you_can - without end}
>> http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
>>
>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
>>
>>
>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often| as.you_can
- without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

The letter and intent of posting guidelines are clear:

<goog_800961782>
https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/community/mailing-lists/ruby-talk-guidelines/

*Always be friendly, considerate, tactful, and tasteful. We want to keep
this list hospitable to the growing ranks of newbies, very young people,
and their teachers, as well as cater to fire breathing wizards. :-)*

We implicitly agree to them when we post here. My polite request that we
not make comments that make this place inhospitable to others should not be
controversial.

-gf-

···

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:15 AM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

Yes, I agree - not constructive (including my statement...)
Any girls there, who want to give some feedback?

Is this a 100%male list??? [then nobody is being hurt :slight_smile: ]

by Opti

Am 29.09.21 um 15:46 schrieb NBarnes:
> I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is constructive or
> congruent with MINSWAN.
>
> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM Nick Gallimore <nfgallimore@gmail.com> > wrote:
>> Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Nicholas Gallimore
>>
>> On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> > wrote:
>>
>> 
>> You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal
thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding
it.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten < > inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> Thank you for that many comments!
>>> Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
>>> someone who can explain it to you?
>>> - What I want to say: keep friendly!
>>> I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
>>> that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans)
have
>>> to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:
>>>
>>> Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be
nice
>>> to you and some others]
>>>
>>> - Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"
>>>
>>> Bye, Opti :slight_smile:
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>>>>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age
:wink:
>>>> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
>>>
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often|
as.you_can - without end}
>> http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
>>
>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
>>
>>
>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Why can't somebody give up? You can have good people only if evil one exists. You can have non-sexist only if sexist exist.

Assume that you are doing a great job making others feel good because of you. That's nice!

Unfortunately you are in a verse where Alexander is great, Hitler is evil, Churchill and USA has never commited genocide, and worst some use vim.

Humans aren't elevated enough to see all is a happening, they want to put it in bins labelled Good, Bad and lot more. Accept this happening and go on.

- Karthikeyan A K

···

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

-------- Original Message --------
On 29 Sep 2021, 6:40 pm, Robert Klemme wrote:

You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding it.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
- What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:

On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

# Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age :wink:

No. Knock that bullshit off.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--

[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often| as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Unsubscribe

···

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:14 AM Karthikeyan A K <mindaslab@protonmail.com> wrote:

Why can't somebody give up? You can have good people only if evil one
exists. You can have non-sexist only if sexist exist.

Assume that you are doing a great job making others feel good because of
you. That's nice!

Unfortunately you are in a verse where Alexander is great, Hitler is evil,
Churchill and USA has never commited genocide, and worst some use vim.

Humans aren't elevated enough to see all is a happening, they want to put
it in bins labelled Good, Bad and lot more. Accept this happening and go on.

- Karthikeyan A K

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

-------- Original Message --------
On 29 Sep 2021, 6:40 pm, Robert Klemme < shortcutter@googlemail.com> > wrote:

You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal thing.
And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding it.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> > wrote:

Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
     - What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> >> wrote:
>>
>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age :wink:
> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often|
as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe

···

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 10:18 AM Jacob Vass <jacobvass@gmail.com> wrote:

Unsubscribe

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:14 AM Karthikeyan A K <mindaslab@protonmail.com> > wrote:

Why can't somebody give up? You can have good people only if evil one
exists. You can have non-sexist only if sexist exist.

Assume that you are doing a great job making others feel good because of
you. That's nice!

Unfortunately you are in a verse where Alexander is great, Hitler is
evil, Churchill and USA has never commited genocide, and worst some use vim.

Humans aren't elevated enough to see all is a happening, they want to put
it in bins labelled Good, Bad and lot more. Accept this happening and go on.

- Karthikeyan A K

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

-------- Original Message --------
On 29 Sep 2021, 6:40 pm, Robert Klemme < shortcutter@googlemail.com> >> wrote:

You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal thing.
And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding it.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> >> wrote:

Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
     - What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> >>> wrote:
>>
>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age
:wink:
> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often|
as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

The intent of your message is absolutely uncontroversial. Thing is, a lot of posters in
this group can't see how this particular joke can be offensive to anyone. This is understandable,
as this joke was, on a scale of offensiveness very low and furthermore there is not a single set
of values that all posters subscribe to (and personally, I'd strongly disagree with an idea to defer
to something like a superset of all - a lot of things can go wrong, not to mention: "Ruby without
fun wouldn't be as intended").

Yet all is not lost, we have another document that applies here, the Ruby Community Conduct
Guidelines:

https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/conduct/

>When interpreting the words and actions of others, participants should always assume good
>intentions.

I am absolutely sure (and I believe you also are) that Die Optimisten didn't have bad intentions
while writing that joke. But if someone isn't - this point applies.

···

On 9/29/21 5:01 PM, Gerard Fowley wrote:

The letter and intent of posting guidelines are clear:

<goog_800961782>
Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List

/Always be friendly, considerate, tactful, and tasteful. We want to keep this list hospitable to the growing ranks of newbies, very young people, and their teachers, as well as cater to fire breathing wizards. :-)/

We implicitly agree to them when we post here. My polite request that we not make comments that make this place inhospitable to others should not be controversial.

-gf-

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:15 AM Die Optimisten > <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> wrote:

    Yes, I agree - not constructive (including my statement...)
    Any girls there, who want to give some feedback?

    Is this a 100%male list??? [then nobody is being hurt :slight_smile: ]

    by Opti

    Am 29.09.21 um 15:46 schrieb NBarnes:
    > I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is constructive or
    > congruent with MINSWAN.
    >
    > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM Nick Gallimore > <nfgallimore@gmail.com <mailto:nfgallimore@gmail.com>> wrote:
    >> Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.
    >>
    >> Sincerely,
    >> Nicholas Gallimore
    >>
    >> On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme > <shortcutter@googlemail.com <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com>> > wrote:
    >>
    >> 
    >> You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and
    personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than
    not understanding it.
    >>
    >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten > <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> wrote:
    >>> Hello,
    >>> Thank you for that many comments!
    >>> Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my
    (first) joke -
    >>> someone who can explain it to you?
    >>> - What I want to say: keep friendly!
    >>> I want to have some fun, getting something informal and
    interesting in
    >>> that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we
    (humans) have
    >>> to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:
    >>>
    >>> Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would
    not be nice
    >>> to you and some others]
    >>>
    >>> - Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"
    >>>
    >>> Bye, Opti :slight_smile:
    >>>
    >>> Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
    >>>>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten > <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated
    their age :wink:
    >>>> No. Knock that bullshit off.
    >>>>
    >>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
    >>>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
    >>>
    >>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
    >>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
    >>
    >> --
    >> [guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as,
    often> as.you_can - without end}
    >> http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
    <http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/>
    >>
    >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
    >> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
    >>
    >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
    >> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
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    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
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    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>

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Sorry I’m new here; which mailing list do I subscribe to that excludes condoning bigoted comments even if the intent was harmless?

···

On Sep 29, 2021, at 10:15 AM, hmdne <hmdne@airmail.cc> wrote:

The intent of your message is absolutely uncontroversial. Thing is, a lot of posters in
this group can't see how this particular joke can be offensive to anyone. This is understandable,
as this joke was, on a scale of offensiveness very low and furthermore there is not a single set
of values that all posters subscribe to (and personally, I'd strongly disagree with an idea to defer
to something like a superset of all - a lot of things can go wrong, not to mention: "Ruby without
fun wouldn't be as intended").

Yet all is not lost, we have another document that applies here, the Ruby Community Conduct
Guidelines:

The Ruby Community Conduct Guideline

>When interpreting the words and actions of others, participants should always assume good
>intentions.

I am absolutely sure (and I believe you also are) that Die Optimisten didn't have bad intentions
while writing that joke. But if someone isn't - this point applies.

On 9/29/21 5:01 PM, Gerard Fowley wrote:

The letter and intent of posting guidelines are clear:

<goog_800961782>
Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List

/Always be friendly, considerate, tactful, and tasteful. We want to keep this list hospitable to the growing ranks of newbies, very young people, and their teachers, as well as cater to fire breathing wizards. :-)/

We implicitly agree to them when we post here. My polite request that we not make comments that make this place inhospitable to others should not be controversial.

-gf-

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:15 AM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> wrote:

   Yes, I agree - not constructive (including my statement...)
   Any girls there, who want to give some feedback?

   Is this a 100%male list??? [then nobody is being hurt :slight_smile: ]

   by Opti

   Am 29.09.21 um 15:46 schrieb NBarnes:
   > I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is constructive or
   > congruent with MINSWAN.
   >
   > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM Nick Gallimore >> <nfgallimore@gmail.com <mailto:nfgallimore@gmail.com>> wrote:
   >> Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.
   >>
   >> Sincerely,
   >> Nicholas Gallimore
   >>
   >> On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme >> <shortcutter@googlemail.com <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com>> >> wrote:
   >>
   >> 
   >> You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and
   personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than
   not understanding it.
   >>
   >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten >> <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> wrote:
   >>> Hello,
   >>> Thank you for that many comments!
   >>> Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my
   (first) joke -
   >>> someone who can explain it to you?
   >>> - What I want to say: keep friendly!
   >>> I want to have some fun, getting something informal and
   interesting in
   >>> that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we
   (humans) have
   >>> to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:
   >>>
   >>> Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would
   not be nice
   >>> to you and some others]
   >>>
   >>> - Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"
   >>>
   >>> Bye, Opti :slight_smile:
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
   >>>>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten >> <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> wrote:
   >>>>>
   >>>>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated
   their age :wink:
   >>>> No. Knock that bullshit off.
   >>>>
   >>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
   <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
   >>>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
   <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
   <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
   >>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
   <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
   >>
   >>
   >> --
   >> [guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as,
   often> as.you_can - without end}
   >> http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
   <http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/>
   >>
   >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
   <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
   >> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
   <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
   >>
   >>
   >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
   <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
   >> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
   <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
   > Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
   <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
   > <ruby-talk list: member options login page
   <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>

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1 Like

excludes condoning bigoted comments even if the intent was harmless?

+1 Jeremy.

PR to remove language that (indirectly) condones generally negative
behavior from the Ruby conduct docs:

Opti: No one is over-reacting or "canceling" people, we're just telling you
that you made an ass of yourself (no shame, I do that all the time), and
offering the opportunity to own up to it and do better going forward. We
all make mistakes and everyone has made an offensive or mindless comment
that they come to regret upon reflection. Thanks for contributing to the
discussion here, but I think many of us would appreciate more thoughtful
comments around the work we've built as a community.

···

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 2:19 PM Jeremy “Ibi-Wan” Kent <ibiwan@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry I’m new here; which mailing list do I subscribe to that excludes
condoning bigoted comments even if the intent was harmless?

> On Sep 29, 2021, at 10:15 AM, hmdne <hmdne@airmail.cc> wrote:
>
> The intent of your message is absolutely uncontroversial. Thing is, a
lot of posters in
> this group can't see how this particular joke can be offensive to
anyone. This is understandable,
> as this joke was, on a scale of offensiveness very low and furthermore
there is not a single set
> of values that all posters subscribe to (and personally, I'd strongly
disagree with an idea to defer
> to something like a superset of all - a lot of things can go wrong, not
to mention: "Ruby without
> fun wouldn't be as intended").
>
> Yet all is not lost, we have another document that applies here, the
Ruby Community Conduct
> Guidelines:
>
> The Ruby Community Conduct Guideline
>
> >When interpreting the words and actions of others, participants should
always assume good
> >intentions.
>
> I am absolutely sure (and I believe you also are) that Die Optimisten
didn't have bad intentions
> while writing that joke. But if someone isn't - this point applies.
>
> On 9/29/21 5:01 PM, Gerard Fowley wrote:
>> The letter and intent of posting guidelines are clear:
>>
>> <goog_800961782>
>>
Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List
<
Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List
>
>>
>> /Always be friendly, considerate, tactful, and tasteful. We want to
keep this list hospitable to the growing ranks of newbies, very young
people, and their teachers, as well as cater to fire breathing wizards. :-)/
>>
>> We implicitly agree to them when we post here. My polite request that
we not make comments that make this place inhospitable to others should not
be controversial.
>>
>> -gf-
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:15 AM Die Optimisten < > inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I agree - not constructive (including my statement...)
>> Any girls there, who want to give some feedback?
>>
>> Is this a 100%male list??? [then nobody is being hurt :slight_smile: ]
>>
>> by Opti
>>
>> Am 29.09.21 um 15:46 schrieb NBarnes:
>> > I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is constructive or
>> > congruent with MINSWAN.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM Nick Gallimore > >> <nfgallimore@gmail.com <mailto:nfgallimore@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >> Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.
>> >>
>> >> Sincerely,
>> >> Nicholas Gallimore
>> >>
>> >> On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme > >> <shortcutter@googlemail.com <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com>> > >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and
>> personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than
>> not understanding it.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten > >> <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> > wrote:
>> >>> Hello,
>> >>> Thank you for that many comments!
>> >>> Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my
>> (first) joke -
>> >>> someone who can explain it to you?
>> >>> - What I want to say: keep friendly!
>> >>> I want to have some fun, getting something informal and
>> interesting in
>> >>> that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we
>> (humans) have
>> >>> to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:
>> >>>
>> >>> Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would
>> not be nice
>> >>> to you and some others]
>> >>>
>> >>> - Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"
>> >>>
>> >>> Bye, Opti :slight_smile:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>> >>>>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten > >> <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> > wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated
>> their age :wink:
>> >>>> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
>> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >>>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
>> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> [guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as,
>> often> as.you_can - without end}
>> >> http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
>> <http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/>
>> >>
>> >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
>> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
>> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
>> > Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
>> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
>> > <ruby-talk list: member options login page
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
>> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>
>>
>>
>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
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I would like to express my wholehearted support for this PR. Thanks for
making those changes, Jacob!

···

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 02:41:07PM -0500, Jacob Herrington wrote:

PR to remove language that (indirectly) condones generally negative
behavior from the Ruby conduct docs:
Remove abuse enabling language by jacobherrington · Pull Request #2690 · ruby/www.ruby-lang.org · GitHub

--
Charlie Jonas
  ~chtjonas

Unsubscribe

···

On Thu, 30 Sep, 2021, 12:43 am Kyle Daniel, <kylerdanielster@gmail.com> wrote:

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On Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 10:18 AM Jacob Vass <jacobvass@gmail.com> wrote:

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On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:14 AM Karthikeyan A K < >> mindaslab@protonmail.com> wrote:

Why can't somebody give up? You can have good people only if evil one
exists. You can have non-sexist only if sexist exist.

Assume that you are doing a great job making others feel good because of
you. That's nice!

Unfortunately you are in a verse where Alexander is great, Hitler is
evil, Churchill and USA has never commited genocide, and worst some use vim.

Humans aren't elevated enough to see all is a happening, they want to
put it in bins labelled Good, Bad and lot more. Accept this happening and
go on.

- Karthikeyan A K

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

-------- Original Message --------
On 29 Sep 2021, 6:40 pm, Robert Klemme < shortcutter@googlemail.com> >>> wrote:

You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal
thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding
it.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten < >>> inform@die-optimisten.net> wrote:

Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
     - What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net> >>>> wrote:
>>
>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age
:wink:
> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often|
as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

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I would like to clarify "protected classes” since several people were asking, and a few offered incorrect clarifications.

https://www.senate.ca.gov/content/protected-classes
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/5-501-5857

Protected groups include age, race, ethnicity, genetics, culture, religion, politics, marital or parental status, sex, orientation, disability, and others
— they do NOT include “member of a board of directors”.

···

On Sep 30, 2021, at 5:07 AM, Navneet Pandey <npandey057@gmail.com> wrote:

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On Thu, 30 Sep, 2021, 12:43 am Kyle Daniel, <kylerdanielster@gmail.com <mailto:kylerdanielster@gmail.com>> wrote:
Unsubscribe

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 10:18 AM Jacob Vass <jacobvass@gmail.com <mailto:jacobvass@gmail.com>> wrote:
Unsubscribe

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:14 AM Karthikeyan A K <mindaslab@protonmail.com <mailto:mindaslab@protonmail.com>> wrote:
Why can't somebody give up? You can have good people only if evil one exists. You can have non-sexist only if sexist exist.

Assume that you are doing a great job making others feel good because of you. That's nice!

Unfortunately you are in a verse where Alexander is great, Hitler is evil, Churchill and USA has never commited genocide, and worst some use vim.

Humans aren't elevated enough to see all is a happening, they want to put it in bins labelled Good, Bad and lot more. Accept this happening and go on.

- Karthikeyan A K

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

-------- Original Message --------
On 29 Sep 2021, 6:40 pm, Robert Klemme < shortcutter@googlemail.com <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com>> wrote:

You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a joke than not understanding it.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> wrote:
Hello,
Thank you for that many comments!
Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my (first) joke -
someone who can explain it to you?
     - What I want to say: keep friendly!
I want to have some fun, getting something informal and interesting in
that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we (humans) have
to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:

Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would not be nice
to you and some others]

- Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"

Bye, Opti :slight_smile:

Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>> wrote:
>>
>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated their age :wink:
> No. Knock that bullshit off.
>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<ruby-talk list: member options login page>

--
[guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as, often| as.you_can - without end}
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
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I started a new pull request where I suggest a possible resolution.

···

On 9/29/21 9:41 PM, Jacob Herrington wrote:

> excludes condoning bigoted comments even if the intent was harmless?

+1 Jeremy.

PR to remove language that (indirectly) condones generally negative behavior from the Ruby conduct docs: https://github.com/ruby/www.ruby-lang.org/pull/2690

Opti: No one is over-reacting or "canceling" people, we're just telling you that you made an ass of yourself (no shame, I do that all the time), and offering the opportunity to own up to it and do better going forward. We all make mistakes and everyone has made an offensive or mindless comment that they come to regret upon reflection. Thanks for contributing to the discussion here, but I think many of us would appreciate more thoughtful comments around the work we've built as a community.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 2:19 PM Jeremy “Ibi-Wan” Kent > <ibiwan@gmail.com <mailto:ibiwan@gmail.com>> wrote:

    Sorry I’m new here; which mailing list do I subscribe to that
    excludes condoning bigoted comments even if the intent was harmless?

    > On Sep 29, 2021, at 10:15 AM, hmdne <hmdne@airmail.cc > <mailto:hmdne@airmail.cc>> wrote:
    >
    > The intent of your message is absolutely uncontroversial. Thing
    is, a lot of posters in
    > this group can't see how this particular joke can be offensive
    to anyone. This is understandable,
    > as this joke was, on a scale of offensiveness very low and
    furthermore there is not a single set
    > of values that all posters subscribe to (and personally, I'd
    strongly disagree with an idea to defer
    > to something like a superset of all - a lot of things can go
    wrong, not to mention: "Ruby without
    > fun wouldn't be as intended").
    >
    > Yet all is not lost, we have another document that applies here,
    the Ruby Community Conduct
    > Guidelines:
    >
    > The Ruby Community Conduct Guideline
    <The Ruby Community Conduct Guideline>
    >
    > >When interpreting the words and actions of others, participants
    should always assume good
    > >intentions.
    >
    > I am absolutely sure (and I believe you also are) that Die
    Optimisten didn't have bad intentions
    > while writing that joke. But if someone isn't - this point applies.
    >
    > On 9/29/21 5:01 PM, Gerard Fowley wrote:
    >> The letter and intent of posting guidelines are clear:
    >>
    >> <goog_800961782>
    >>
    Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List
    <Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List>
    <Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List
    <Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List>>
    >>
    >> /Always be friendly, considerate, tactful, and tasteful. We
    want to keep this list hospitable to the growing ranks of newbies,
    very young people, and their teachers, as well as cater to fire
    breathing wizards. :-)/
    >>
    >> We implicitly agree to them when we post here. My polite
    request that we not make comments that make this place
    inhospitable to others should not be controversial.
    >>
    >> -gf-
    >>
    >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:15 AM Die Optimisten > <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net> > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>>> wrote:
    >>
    >> Yes, I agree - not constructive (including my statement...)
    >> Any girls there, who want to give some feedback?
    >>
    >> Is this a 100%male list??? [then nobody is being hurt :slight_smile: ]
    >>
    >> by Opti
    >>
    >> Am 29.09.21 um 15:46 schrieb NBarnes:
    >> > I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is
    constructive or
    >> > congruent with MINSWAN.
    >> >
    >> > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM Nick Gallimore > >> <nfgallimore@gmail.com <mailto:nfgallimore@gmail.com> > <mailto:nfgallimore@gmail.com>> wrote:
    >> >> Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.
    >> >>
    >> >> Sincerely,
    >> >> Nicholas Gallimore
    >> >>
    >> >> On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme
    >> <shortcutter@googlemail.com
    <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com>
    <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com
    <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com>>>
    >> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> 
    >> >> You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and
    >> personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a
    joke than
    >> not understanding it.
    >> >>
    >> >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten > >> <inform@die-optimisten.net > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net> > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>>> wrote:
    >> >>> Hello,
    >> >>> Thank you for that many comments!
    >> >>> Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my
    >> (first) joke -
    >> >>> someone who can explain it to you?
    >> >>> - What I want to say: keep friendly!
    >> >>> I want to have some fun, getting something informal and
    >> interesting in
    >> >>> that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we
    >> (humans) have
    >> >>> to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would
    >> not be nice
    >> >>> to you and some others]
    >> >>>
    >> >>> - Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Bye, Opti :slight_smile:
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
    >> >>>>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten > >> <inform@die-optimisten.net > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net> > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>>> wrote:
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated
    >> their age :wink:
    >> >>>> No. Knock that bullshit off.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
    >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
    >> >>>>
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
    >>
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
    >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
    >> >>>
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
    >>
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>>
    >> >>
    >> >> --
    >> >> [guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as,
    >> often> as.you_can - without end}
    >> >> http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
    <http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/>
    >> <http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
    <http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/>>
    >> >>
    >> >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
    >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
    >> >>
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    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
    >>
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    >> >>
    >> >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
    >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
    >> >>
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    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
    >>
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page
    <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>>
    >> > Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
    >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
    <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
    >> >
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    >>
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    >>
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    >>
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    >>
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    >
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hmdne: I like your suggestion. Its a good half term.

[]s

···

Em sex., 1 de out. de 2021 às 18:31, hmdne <hmdne@airmail.cc> escreveu:

I started a new pull request where I suggest a possible resolution.

Remove abuse enabling language pt. 3 by hmdne · Pull Request #2696 · ruby/www.ruby-lang.org · GitHub

On 9/29/21 9:41 PM, Jacob Herrington wrote:
> > excludes condoning bigoted comments even if the intent was harmless?
>
> +1 Jeremy.
>
> PR to remove language that (indirectly) condones generally negative
> behavior from the Ruby conduct docs:
> https://github.com/ruby/www.ruby-lang.org/pull/2690
> <https://github.com/ruby/www.ruby-lang.org/pull/2690>
>
> Opti: No one is over-reacting or "canceling" people, we're just
> telling you that you made an ass of yourself (no shame, I do that all
> the time), and offering the opportunity to own up to it and do better
> going forward. We all make mistakes and everyone has made an offensive
> or mindless comment that they come to regret upon reflection. Thanks
> for contributing to the discussion here, but I think many of us would
> appreciate more thoughtful comments around the work we've built as a
> community.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 2:19 PM Jeremy “Ibi-Wan” Kent > > <ibiwan@gmail.com <mailto:ibiwan@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Sorry I’m new here; which mailing list do I subscribe to that
> excludes condoning bigoted comments even if the intent was harmless?
>
> > On Sep 29, 2021, at 10:15 AM, hmdne <hmdne@airmail.cc > > <mailto:hmdne@airmail.cc>> wrote:
> >
> > The intent of your message is absolutely uncontroversial. Thing
> is, a lot of posters in
> > this group can't see how this particular joke can be offensive
> to anyone. This is understandable,
> > as this joke was, on a scale of offensiveness very low and
> furthermore there is not a single set
> > of values that all posters subscribe to (and personally, I'd
> strongly disagree with an idea to defer
> > to something like a superset of all - a lot of things can go
> wrong, not to mention: "Ruby without
> > fun wouldn't be as intended").
> >
> > Yet all is not lost, we have another document that applies here,
> the Ruby Community Conduct
> > Guidelines:
> >
> > The Ruby Community Conduct Guideline
> <The Ruby Community Conduct Guideline>
> >
> > >When interpreting the words and actions of others, participants
> should always assume good
> > >intentions.
> >
> > I am absolutely sure (and I believe you also are) that Die
> Optimisten didn't have bad intentions
> > while writing that joke. But if someone isn't - this point applies.
> >
> > On 9/29/21 5:01 PM, Gerard Fowley wrote:
> >> The letter and intent of posting guidelines are clear:
> >>
> >> <goog_800961782>
> >>
> Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List
> <Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List>
> <Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List
> <Posting Guidelines for the Ruby-Talk Mailing List>>
> >>
> >> /Always be friendly, considerate, tactful, and tasteful. We
> want to keep this list hospitable to the growing ranks of newbies,
> very young people, and their teachers, as well as cater to fire
> breathing wizards. :-)/
> >>
> >> We implicitly agree to them when we post here. My polite
> request that we not make comments that make this place
> inhospitable to others should not be controversial.
> >>
> >> -gf-
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:15 AM Die Optimisten > > <inform@die-optimisten.net <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net> > > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net > > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes, I agree - not constructive (including my statement...)
> >> Any girls there, who want to give some feedback?
> >>
> >> Is this a 100%male list??? [then nobody is being hurt :slight_smile: ]
> >>
> >> by Opti
> >>
> >> Am 29.09.21 um 15:46 schrieb NBarnes:
> >> > I'm not entirely convinced that this statement is
> constructive or
> >> > congruent with MINSWAN.
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:30 AM Nick Gallimore > > >> <nfgallimore@gmail.com <mailto:nfgallimore@gmail.com> > > <mailto:nfgallimore@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >> Will you guys knock it off. Go back to Facebook.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sincerely,
> >> >> Nicholas Gallimore
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Robert Klemme
> >> <shortcutter@googlemail.com
> <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com>
> <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com
> <mailto:shortcutter@googlemail.com>>>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> 
> >> >> You should keep in mind that humor is a very cultural and
> >> personal thing. And: there are other reasons to object a
> joke than
> >> not understanding it.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:03 PM Die Optimisten > > >> <inform@die-optimisten.net > > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net> > > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net > > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>>> wrote:
> >> >>> Hello,
> >> >>> Thank you for that many comments!
> >> >>> Looks like, you (some people here) didn't understand my
> >> (first) joke -
> >> >>> someone who can explain it to you?
> >> >>> - What I want to say: keep friendly!
> >> >>> I want to have some fun, getting something informal and
> >> interesting in
> >> >>> that list, Ruby without fun would'nt be as intendet, so we
> >> (humans) have
> >> >>> to care for the fun, Ruby cares of the computers :wink:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Better to not say the next words [don't read it!! - it would
> >> not be nice
> >> >>> to you and some others]
> >> >>>
> >> >>> - Ok, for the rest: "No, knock that bullshit off!"
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Bye, Opti :slight_smile:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Am 29.09.21 um 12:25 schrieb Ryan Davis:
> >> >>>>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:54, Die Optimisten > > >> <inform@die-optimisten.net > > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net> > > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net > > <mailto:inform@die-optimisten.net>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> # Maybe this has been written for women, having calculated
> >> their age :wink:
> >> >>>> No. Knock that bullshit off.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
> >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >>>>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
> >>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
> >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >>>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
> >>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> [guy, jim, charlie, sho].each {|him| remember.him do |as,
> >> often> as.you_can - without end}
> >> >> http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
> <http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/>
> >> <http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
> <http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/>>
> >> >>
> >> >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
> >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
> >>
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
> >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >>
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> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
> >>
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> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>>>
> >> > Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
> >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>
> >> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>>?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
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> <ruby-talk list: member options login page>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org
> <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> <ruby-talk list: member options login page
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> >
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