Respect and Disappointment

Quote from the article:
"There are five steps involved in creating a piece of software: enumerating the requirements; designing the program; actually writing the code; testing it; and then deploying it. "

I disagree with this. There is definitely another step to be performed. Hiring the right people. The right people for one project are not necessarily the right people for another project.

Stephen

···

In message <e4fbd4562864e49049cbfaa0fd995a6e@gmail.com>, PA <petite.abeille@gmail.com> writes

"Managing complexity: Most software projects fail to meet their goals"

Managing complexity

--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html

Won't even compare. The only thing that is remotely close on Linux,
as far as I know, is Midnight Commander -- and it *sucks*.

You may want to give krusader a try. The features list is quite impressive, it also supports sftp. It looks nice too :slight_smile:

martinus

* Austin Ziegler (Apr 01, 2005 15:15):

···

On Apr 1, 2005 2:45 AM, Aredridel <aredridel@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This one application makes me at least 20 times more productive in
> > Windows than I will be in bash. With its built in FTP support and
> > pluggable SFTP support (flaky, but...), it is the *single*
> > application that is *always* running on my system. Always.

> Time to try the new VFS plugins to Nautilus :wink:

Won't even compare. The only thing that is remotely close on Linux, as
far as I know, is Midnight Commander -- and it *sucks*. Nautilus,
being a Gnome application, is inherently unusable.

Amen,
        nikolai

--
::: name: Nikolai Weibull :: aliases: pcp / lone-star / aka :::
::: born: Chicago, IL USA :: loc atm: Gothenburg, Sweden :::
::: page: minimalistic.org :: fun atm: gf,lps,ruby,lisp,war3 :::
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}

Then buy a two-button mouse. The vast majority of OS X apps today consistently map Ctrl-click to the contextual menu, so any good two-button mouse (I think I have the same one Bill Klebs has) can be easily mapped so the right button gives you the context menu.

Now, I agree with you that this should be the default; I'm not crazy about Apple's decision here. (Also, the hockey puck they shipped with the original iMac was an ergonomic disaster.) But that said, I don't think any platform is perfect, and any impassioned computer user is going to have a lot of configuration to get any platform set up. Personally, I'd rather buy a $15 two-button mouse for a Mac than learn how to get my printer, external monitor, digital camera, three external hard drives, and iPod to work with a Linux laptop. Or than learn how to make a Windows box secure. Not that I'm saying here that OS X is automatically the best choice for everybody. I'm just saying that computing isn't an ideal business, and any platform you choose is going to involve trade-offs. Just pick the trade-offs that are least painful for you.

There are lots of good reasons *not* to buy Apple products. But I don't understand this harping about the one-button mouse. With the options that OS X users have today, that just seems like a legalism to me.

Francis Hwang

···

On Apr 1, 2005, at 4:29 AM, Stephen Kellett wrote:

In message <1guc0yi.15zntkol3nbh0N%lucsky@mac.com>, Luc Heinrich > <lucsky@mac.com> writes

So yes,
Macs come with a one button mouse, here's your fact.

Thank you. You were denying this yesterday. Who is spreading FUD?

To open a context menu with a one button mouse you need to two hands (one on the mouse, one to press the key on the keyboard that makes the context menu work, wow, thats good UI design), with a two button mouse you need one finger.

I think this is closer

    Project.hire()
    Project.requirements()

    begin
        Project.design()
    rescue Project::RequirementsChange
        Project.redo_requirements
        retry
    rescue Project::SlackerProgrammer, Project::GroupCantGetalong
        Project.adjust_personnel
        retry
    end

    begin
        Project.code()
    rescue Project::RequirementsChange
        Project.redo_requirements
        Project.redesign
        Project.arguments_with_spouse
        retry
    rescue Project::SlackerProgrammer, Project::GroupCantGetalong
        Project.adjust_personnel
        retry
    rescue Project::DesignActuallySucked
        Project.redesign
        Project.work_late
        Project.start_drinking
        retry
    end

    begin
        Project.test()
    rescue Project::RequirementsChange
        Project.curse_customer
        Project.consider_culinary_school
        Project.redo_requirements
        Project.redesign
        Project.salvage_as_much_code_as_possible
        Project.recode
        Project.separation_from_family
        retry
    rescue Project::SlackerProgrammer, Project::GroupCantGetalong
        Project.adjust_personnel
        Project.consider_your_own_adjustment
        Project.hate_all_people
        retry
    rescue Project::DesignActuallySucked
        Project.redesign
        Project.work_late
        Project.start_drinking
        Project.salvage_as_much_code_as_possible
        Project.recode
        retry
    end

    begin
        Project.deploy()
    rescue Project::RequirementsChange
        Project.wait_until_v_2_0
    rescue Project::SlackerProgrammer, Project::GroupCantGetalong
        Project.fire_everyone
        retry
    rescue Project::DesignActuallySucked
        Project.too_bad
        retry
    rescue Project::AFewBugs
        Project.maintain
    rescue Project::ALotOfBugs
        Project.work_late
        Project.divorce
        Project.know_project_members_better_than_I_ever_knew_spouse
        Project.wish_I_built_bridges_instead
        retry
    rescue Project::TonsOfBugs
        Project.scrap
    end

    Project.earn_money_if_havent_exited_yet
    Project.therapy
    Project.go_to_culinary_school

Jim

···

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 02:29:45 +0900 Stephen Kellett <snail@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote:

"There are five steps involved in creating a piece of software:
enumerating the requirements; designing the program; actually writing
the code; testing it; and then deploying it. "

I disagree with this. There is definitely another step to be performed.
Hiring the right people. The right people for one project are not
necessarily the right people for another project.

Stephen Kellett wrote:

···

In message <e4fbd4562864e49049cbfaa0fd995a6e@gmail.com>, PA > <petite.abeille@gmail.com> writes

"Managing complexity: Most software projects fail to meet their goals"

Managing complexity

Quote from the article:
"There are five steps involved in creating a piece of software: enumerating the requirements; designing the program; actually writing the code; testing it; and then deploying it. "

I disagree with this. There is definitely another step to be performed. Hiring the right people. The right people for one project are not necessarily the right people for another project.

Stephen

Still one more step: Sell the bloddy hell out of the thing. Whether it be open source and your goal is downloads or commercial and your goal is $$, software isn't finished until it's in the end users hands IMHO.

Jon

This is the first thing that looks remotely close to Total Commander
in power. The next time I'm doing something with a Linux desktop, I'll
definitely give it a try.

-austin

···

On Apr 1, 2005 8:34 AM, Martin Ankerl <martin.ankerl@gmail.com> wrote:

> Won't even compare. The only thing that is remotely close on Linux,
> as far as I know, is Midnight Commander -- and it *sucks*.
You may want to give krusader a try. The features list is quite
impressive, it also supports sftp. It looks nice too :slight_smile:

http://krusader.sourceforge.net/

--
Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
               * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca

To open a context menu with a one button mouse you need to two hands (one on the mouse, one to press the key on the keyboard that makes the context menu work, wow, thats good UI design), with a two button mouse you need one finger.

Actually, a kind individual corrected me buy email. Apparently if you click and hold you get a context menu.

Thats a fine work around, but is bad for people with RSI/WRULD as it introduces a static load on the finger holding for the pause. If you don't have RSI you won't know why that is an issue. If you do have RSI, as I do, you will know that its a very real issue. A good UI will reduce the likelihood of harm to its users.

Then buy a two-button mouse. The vast majority of OS X apps today

I would, but that wasn't what I was arguing about. You shouldn't have to replace a fundamental component the instant you open the box. They could ship with a two button mouse with the right one disabled. Then it would be a configuration option. The reality is it is not about perceived ease of use, its a branding issue. It is part of what makes Apple different or cool, if you will. To hell with UI design, lets stand out from the crowd. I'm not going to argue this point, it just seems a logical marketing conclusion. By all means agree or disagree.

If it was UI design and two buttons confuse - as some people claim, disabling one button gets you back to one button - the other button could be inert or pop up a helpful text bubble telling the beginning software user not to worry they can learn about this button later.

a lot of configuration to get any platform set up. Personally, I'd rather buy a $15 two-button mouse for a Mac than learn how to get my printer, external monitor, digital camera, three external hard drives, and iPod to work with a Linux laptop.

If I liked the Mac UI I might agree with you. When I next see the guy that introduced me to Python I'll ask him if he has an OS X box (he has most things, from an Apple II, III and a Lisa upwards) so I can take another look.

Or than learn how to make a Windows box secure.

Blimey thats easy. Download ZoneAlarm (free). Install. Done. Machine is now invisible to the world.

I'm not sure how secure an Apple or Linux box are, but if you don't have the same number of people battering on your door with security exploits you are basically relying on security through obscurity.

There are lots of good reasons *not* to buy Apple products. But I don't understand this harping about the one-button mouse. With the options

The mouse is such a fundamental part of todays UI and a single button mouse is like a one door car. Thats fine until the passenger wants to get out and has to climb over the driver. Apple seem to realise this as there have been recent press mutterings that the default may change to a 2 button mouse.

Stephen

···

In message <1171831547b8bb926e84d8f8c0ecb249@fhwang.net>, Francis Hwang <sera@fhwang.net> writes
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html

Austin Ziegler wrote:

···

On Apr 1, 2005 8:34 AM, Martin Ankerl <martin.ankerl@gmail.com> wrote:

Won't even compare. The only thing that is remotely close on Linux,
as far as I know, is Midnight Commander -- and it *sucks*.

You may want to give krusader a try. The features list is quite
impressive, it also supports sftp. It looks nice too :slight_smile:

http://krusader.sourceforge.net/

This is the first thing that looks remotely close to Total Commander
in power. The next time I'm doing something with a Linux desktop, I'll
definitely give it a try.

Konqueror does sftp, too. Just type sftp://path.to.file/you/want into the address bar.

on linux i used to use 'worker' at

but now i use ndn for both windows AND linux:

text based, but it's the closest thing i've seen since the old dos
program 'arcmaster'
http://home.cogeco.ca/~tsummerfelt1
telnet://ventedspleen.dyndns.org

···

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:43:06 +0900, you wrote:

On Apr 1, 2005 8:34 AM, Martin Ankerl <martin.ankerl@gmail.com> wrote:

> Won't even compare. The only thing that is remotely close on Linux,
> as far as I know, is Midnight Commander -- and it *sucks*.

http://krusader.sourceforge.net/

This is the first thing that looks remotely close to Total Commander
in power. The next time I'm doing something with a Linux desktop, I'll
definitely give it a try.

Stephen Kellett wrote:

The mouse is such a fundamental part of todays UI and a single button
mouse is like a one door car. Thats fine until the passenger wants to
get out and has to climb over the driver. Apple seem to realise this as
there have been recent press mutterings that the default may change to a
2 button mouse.

But where's the dog going to get out? He'll dirty the seats.

I assumed the single-button trackpad would bother me more. I prefer the
Thinkpad nubs.

However:

1) I hardly use the trackpad. I navigate with the keyboard and live in vim.

2) I'm losing my reflex to right-click things to see what's "really"
going on. Most apps' just don't seem to demand it of me. This
phenomenon is a bit of a mystery, but coming from X, where each of three
buttons is trying its best to violate PoLS, I'm hardly sentimental.

The lone button has become little more than polarizing cultural emblem.

jeremy

Thats a fine work around, but is bad for people with RSI/WRULD as it
introduces a static load on the finger holding for the pause. If you
don't have RSI you won't know why that is an issue. If you do have RSI,
as I do, you will know that its a very real issue. A good UI will reduce
the likelihood of harm to its users.

Then you might like to try Apple's no-button mouse, you could use the
palm of your hand instead of your fingers.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/70307/wo/AX47Tf8hMJes2v4UZwLKJ2DnXjG/1.0.11.1.0.6.25.7.11.2.3

>Then buy a two-button mouse. The vast majority of OS X apps today

I would, but that wasn't what I was arguing about. You shouldn't have to
replace a fundamental component the instant you open the box. They could
ship with a two button mouse with the right one disabled. Then it would
be a configuration option.

Do you really believe this? Shipping a component where half of it is
turned off by default?

I'm not sure that the right mouse button is as fundamental as you say
it is. It isn't needed for web development. There isn't much need for
the right mouse button in word procesing and other office
applications. From watching non-developers, the toolbars are used much
more than context menus. Developers OTOH tend to use keyboard
shortcuts,sitedtepping the mouse completly. How about graphic design?
Applications like Photoshop need much more than two buttons - mouse +
ctrl or alt or even both is quite common. Scrolling is done with
spacebar + mouse.

Personally, the only time I make a lare amount of use of the right
mouse button is for mouse gestures - and even then a scroll wheel is
used orders of magnitude more often. I would love to see the
spacebar+mouse scrolling generalised to all applications, not just
graphical ones. That could replace my scroll wheel in a second!

Douglas

···

On Apr 1, 2005 8:14 PM, Stephen Kellett <snail@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Stephen Kellett wrote:

Blimey thats easy. Download ZoneAlarm (free). Install. Done. Machine is now invisible to the world.

I'm not sure how secure an Apple or Linux box are, but if you don't have the same number of people battering on your door with security exploits you are basically relying on security through obscurity.

That's making a couple of false assumptions, first that the security model is even similar, and second that no one tries to crack Unix systems. Security through obscurity would be running OpenVMS or something. :stuck_out_tongue:

There's a fairly extensive discussion of this at The Register.

"James F. Hranicky" <jfh@cise.ufl.edu> writes:

"There are five steps involved in creating a piece of software:
enumerating the requirements; designing the program; actually writing
the code; testing it; and then deploying it. "

I disagree with this. There is definitely another step to be performed.
Hiring the right people. The right people for one project are not
necessarily the right people for another project.

I think this is closer

    Project.hire()
    Project.requirements()

    begin
        Project.design()
    rescue Project::RequirementsChange
        Project.redo_requirements
        retry
    rescue Project::SlackerProgrammer, Project::GroupCantGetalong
        Project.adjust_personnel
        retry
    end

      ...

    Project.earn_money_if_havent_exited_yet
    Project.therapy
    Project.go_to_culinary_school

Jim

ri instance_eval

···

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 02:29:45 +0900 > Stephen Kellett <snail@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote:

--
Christian Neukirchen <chneukirchen@gmail.com> http://chneukirchen.org

Thats a fine work around, but is bad for people with RSI/WRULD as it
introduces a static load on the finger holding for the pause. If you
don't have RSI you won't know why that is an issue. If you do have RSI,
as I do, you will know that its a very real issue. A good UI will reduce
the likelihood of harm to its users.

First, I should point out that the extended press is entirely
optional: control-clicking provides an alternative than does not
impose the RSI issue you raise.

Now, maybe IHBT, and I know that the one-button mouse is something of
a shibboleth for Mac-haters but, seriously, if RSI is an issue, why on
earth would you be using a mouse? They are an ergonomic disaster
area. I use a massive (pool-ball sized) four-button Kensington
trackball with OS X. When I'm doing graphics, I switch to a graphics
tablet. Granted, neither of these are appropriate for FPS gaming, but
if you are using a computer for any length of time - and intend to do
so into the future - you owe it to your musculoskeletal system to
invest in decent input devices. Since I stopped using a mouse, my
previous hand/wrist problems have gone away.

However, I recognise that both a trackball and a tablet are
significantly harder to use for the average, untrained user than a
mouse is. As such, a mouse is still the default graphical input
device. I would, however, guess that, on the whole, Apple's vastly
simplified mouse interface imposes less strain than a complex,
multi-button mouse interface would. Most activities in OS X can be
accomplished by a simple point-and-click operation. How is that more
damaging than differentiating and co-ordinating clicks using different
fingers? Surely it is simpler. You could use the standard Mac mouse
with your foot if you wanted. Try doing the same with a
five-button-plus-scroll wheel mouse in a UI that requires
right-clicking.

I would, but that wasn't what I was arguing about. You shouldn't have to
replace a fundamental component the instant you open the box. They could
ship with a two button mouse with the right one disabled. Then it would
be a configuration option.

The "there should be a configuration option" argument is alluring, but
I am fairly confident that Apple have performed diligent human
interface research before deciding on their setup. (Conversely,
Windows' "you cannot drag an item onto a window on the taskbar, but if
you hold it there for a while, the window will pop up and you can drag
it onto that" [paraphrased] error message persuades me that Microsoft
have spent less time on human-computer interface research than their
budget would allow.) There is a multitude of settings that can be
configured in OS X but that are hidden from the surface. It's a
different attitude from many FLOSS GUI applications, with every single
possible parameter configurable on the screen. If you want a good
example of the consequences of configuritis, look at the interface of
Gnutella.

Besides, having a mouse with a disabled button, or even one that
performed differently, would surely confuse people. I know many of
these people, and my empirical observations suggest that a
non-functional or duplicate button would confuse them. Configuration
confuses them. Hell, moving and resizing windows confuses them! They
even close one application before opening another. But they are
legion. No, they are not programmers. But no commercial computer/OS
comes set up out of the box for the programming market. (Linux, to an
extent does, which is one of its great barriers to mainstream
acceptance. But Linux is just an OS kernel, and doesn't come with any
mouse at all.)

Speaking for myself and probably most of the others on this list, our
requirements are specialised. We use computers for different purposes
and for an order of magnitude more hours than the average user. Yes,
we might occasionally have to invest in the tools of the trade, be
they an extra mouse button, or a second screen for more effective
coding. There are configuration options to be set up. Frankly, I'd
be suspicious of any professional using a stock configuration, be it a
Linux distro, Windows, or OS X.

If it was UI design and two buttons confuse - as some people claim,
disabling one button gets you back to one button - the other button
could be inert or pop up a helpful text bubble telling the beginning
software user not to worry they can learn about this button later.

Have you watched the numerous people who are scared of computers? Any
message from the computer alarms them. A "helpful bubble" would, I
suspect, not be perceived in the manner intended. I am certain that
OS X is far better targeted to the average user than Windows because
it hides much of the complexity from the user.

However, this does not mean that OS X is not a suitable power-user
environment. OS X also comes, out of the box, with Ruby, Python,
Perl, etc. There is a complete development environment on the
supplied CDs. But the beauty is that Apple has managed to satisfy
these different markets without alienating either - except,
apparently, those who want a two-button mouse in the box. But don't
forget that a usable interface pays dividends for us developers too.
When I save an hour of messing around because something Just Works
under OS X, that's a significant benefit to me as well. Despite this
ease of use, though, I still get a usable command line.

Remember that Apple is in the business of selling a general-purpose
computing device to the general public. As such, their interface is
designed around a set of guidelines that aim to make the interface as
straightforward and, more importantly, as consistent as possible.
(Compare the Windows task tray: some icons need a left click, others a
right click; some respond to both, but to each differently.) The
interface of OS X really can be used with one button. Even Xcode can
be used with one button. There really is no need for a second mouse
button.

Finally, I can remember when *nix users looked down on the two-button
Windows mouse. I wonder how many free desktop users today get by
happily without ever using the middle button now that Gnome and KDE
work so well with just right and left clicks. I suspect it's more
than a few, and it's all down to the software design. If the software
doesn't need a right click, then the mouse doesn't need a right
button.

···

On Apr 1, 2005 9:14 PM, Stephen Kellett <snail@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote:

What people seem to be missing here is that neither Nautilus nor
Konqueror is as easy to use for heavy-duty file manipulation as
Total Commander, because they're both single-folder display. (Sure,
you might have a quick list or a tree available, and with Konq you
can have a command line window, but these are of limited value
compared to what I can do with Total Commander.)

-austin

···

On Apr 1, 2005 10:20 AM, Joel VanderWerf <vjoel@path.berkeley.edu> wrote:

Austin Ziegler wrote:

On Apr 1, 2005 8:34 AM, Martin Ankerl <martin.ankerl@gmail.com > wrote:

Won't even compare. The only thing that is remotely close on
Linux, as far as I know, is Midnight Commander -- and it
*sucks*.

You may want to give krusader a try. The features list is quite
impressive, it also supports sftp. It looks nice too :slight_smile:

http://krusader.sourceforge.net/

This is the first thing that looks remotely close to Total
Commander in power. The next time I'm doing something with a
Linux desktop, I'll definitely give it a try.

Konqueror does sftp, too. Just type sftp://path.to.file/you/want
into the address bar.

--
Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
               * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca

Then you might like to try Apple's no-button mouse, you could use the
palm of your hand instead of your fingers.

Never heard of it. Sounds like worth looking at.

Do you really believe this? Shipping a component where half of it is
turned off by default?

No. I'd rather both were enabled. What I suggested is a compromise to satisfy the needs of those that think a single button mouse is better.

I'm not sure that the right mouse button is as fundamental as you say
it is. It isn't needed for web development.

And web development accounts for how much of world software development? Not much. Measured in single digits percent wise I'd guess. Probably less than 1%. The media give web development lots of hits, but from the feedback I see from people downloading the software we write for a different company very few people are doing web stuff. The idea that the rising companies are web companies (as promoted by DHH) makes me smile. Its just not true, Google excepted. Google technologies are application all over the place, not just the web. There are so many companies doing really smart stuff that just don't get the general attention, especially if you only look around inside the Ruby goldfish bowl (*). I monitor many different languages and fora, participating in very few threads. Where is the real development? In house, and embedded.

All that said, the bias towards web in the Ruby community seems higher though.

There isn't much need for
the right mouse button in word procesing and other office
applications.

Funny, I find myself using the context menu in just about every app I use.

From watching non-developers, the toolbars are used much
more than context menus. Developers OTOH tend to use keyboard
shortcuts,sitedtepping the mouse completly.

Depends, I've seen, to my amazement developers go out of their way to use a mouse to select select which could have been done by shift, ctrl-> (select a word), Ctrl-C. Three clicks versus a whole complicated gesture. Others are the opposite, killing all toolbars and fully keyboard only. I'm a compromise, but like context menus. I get the menu, but without the hassle of moving the cursor away from the source of interest. But if you are manipulating data in grids, trees and you want context sensitive choices about what you have selected, a context menu is the fastest possible choice, the menu is posted with the same mouse click as the click that selects the item.

How about graphic design?

Absolutely.

Applications like Photoshop need much more than two buttons

2 buttons is enough. If you want more thats fine - tends to be user specific.

In 15 years of using GUIs on 7 Unix platforms, Linux, VMS and 7 versions of Windows spanning the development of embedded systems, geographical information systems, CAD systems, multimedia authoring platforms, web browser development and software tool development I have yet to see a use for a 3rd button on a mouse, although we did try really hard to find one for the GIS application that ran on VMS and the 7 Unix platforms (because we actually had 3 button mice shipped as standard equipment, so we tried to make use of them). The customers typically wanted the third button set aside for themselves to customize.

Stephen
(*) That is not an insult. Each language community has a tendency to live in its own bubble/goldfish bowl.

···

In message <5630944605040112394bc647a8@mail.gmail.com>, Douglas Livingstone <rampant@gmail.com> writes
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html

Now, maybe IHBT, and I know that the one-button mouse is something of
a shibboleth for Mac-haters but, seriously, if RSI is an issue, why on
earth would you be using a mouse?

Well, RSI comes in many flavours and affects different people in different ways. You recommend me using two hands to get my second mouse button effect. That is worse for me than having two mouse buttons. I've been living and working with RSI since 1994. I know what works for me.

tablet. Granted, neither of these are appropriate for FPS gaming, but
if you are using a computer for any length of time - and intend to do
so into the future - you owe it to your musculoskeletal system to
invest in decent input devices. Since I stopped using a mouse, my
previous hand/wrist problems have gone away.

Frankly FPS gaming is one of the worst things you could do if you have RSI, given the stressed and tensions people put into their arms and hands whilst playing. Regarding the other bits - its mainly typing that kills me, so I have to be careful, split keyboard is must - Microsoft score well there - the best I've found so far as the MS keyboards.

>Compare the Windows task tray: some icons need a left click, others a >right click; some respond to both, but to each differently.

Of course they respond to each button differently. The left button does what a left click would do and the right one posts a context menu. That is entirely consistent with the way Windows works (left does a click, which selects or activates a command, and right does the context menu thing). Just because that isn't consistent with the way the Mac works doesn't mean its broken. When you get in a car and wash the windscreen by mistake when you meant to flash the headlights does that mean the car is broken because its different to the one you normally drive?

than a few, and it's all down to the software design. If the software
doesn't need a right click, then the mouse doesn't need a right
button.

That is my point entirely. Just about every software package I use does provide context menus and I want them with a right click. So do my customers. They don't want to have to use two hands to do something that should be trivially done with one finger.

Stephen

···

In message <2ab6a50205040213027abfb6a3@mail.gmail.com>, Paul Battley <pbattley@gmail.com> writes
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html

"James F. Hranicky" <jfh@cise.ufl.edu> writes:
>

[...]

> Project.earn_money_if_havent_exited_yet
> Project.therapy
> Project.go_to_culinary_school
>
> Jim

ri instance_eval

LOL! Worth wading through the thread for the odd laugh :slight_smile:

martin

···

Christian Neukirchen <chneukirchen@gmail.com> wrote:

Austin Ziegler wyrze¼bi³(a):

What people seem to be missing here is that neither Nautilus nor
Konqueror is as easy to use for heavy-duty file manipulation as
Total Commander, because they're both single-folder display. (Sure,
you might have a quick list or a tree available, and with Konq you
can have a command line window, but these are of limited value
compared to what I can do with Total Commander.)

can you explain what do you mean by "single folder display"?
especially after checking this:
http://www.depesz.com/shot.jpg

depesz

···

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