I have to pitch with just a bit of irresponsible advocacy here. The way I see it, Microsoft assumes you're stupid. Apple assumes you're lazy. There's a world of difference.
Francis Hwang
On Apr 1, 2005, at 1:24 AM, Dave Burt wrote:
I've always held the view that the Mac assumes a level of stupidity on the
part of the user, and makes a bunch of technical and complicated stuff
harder to do that it would be on Win or Nix.
And yet, Japan is one of the healthiest populations in the world:
http://www3.who.int/whosis/hale/hale.cfm?language=en
I've read a number of theories about how this is related to its diet, which tends to emphasize fresh ingredients and be low in salt. Also, I think it helps that East Asian cuisines don't traditionally include dairy at all.
(I travelled to Taiwan last year and was astounded by the grad students who took us to lunch and dinner, diving into 6-course meals with gusto but who were all quite skinny themselves.)
Francis Hwang
On Apr 1, 2005, at 11:38 PM, Navindra Umanee wrote:
Sugar, as an artificially-produced refined carbohydrate, is IMHO much
less of a sane food choice. The diet of modern man is probably
artificially high in sugar leading to all sorts of problems. Rice is
similar in the sense that it is essentially filler, a staple food that
was chosen because it was cheap and easy to obtain in bulk. Rice +
sugar is essentially a formula leading to an overdose of carbohydrate.
At least in my culture, this combination seems to have been wrecking
havoc over generations.
Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> writes:
What about all the Windows users who look forward to using Macs?!?
Am I the only one?No. I'm buying a Mac (PowerBook) when I can afford it. I might get a
Mac Mini in the interim.But I am not a lesser developer because I *also* choose Windows.
You are free to choose Windows, but you are a lesser developer if it
doesn't hurt. *scnr*
On Mar 31, 2005 12:41 PM, Gavri Fernandez <gavri.fernandez@gmail.com> wrote:
-austin
--
Christian Neukirchen <chneukirchen@gmail.com> http://chneukirchen.org
Francis Hwang wrote:
> Secondly, I think we should all be suspect about a court case which
> allows a company to subpoena your emails not because you may have
> information vital to national security or to some other public good,
> but because somebody (not you) somewhere broke an NDA, and you were
> involved.I think we can see where this is going. I'm not a pre-eventualist (yet)
but I see it all materializing like thick cake smearing over my
eyelids. I think if Ashley Raymond were here, he would say something
utterly incomprehensible, just to avoid joining culture.It all reminds me of the ancient confounding of the tongues, but caused
by a society which is wider than it is tall. Maybe we will live in
cities which are six or seven level deep. Each level with its own
nomenclatures and systems. I honest grip tightly the precept that we
will safely passage between realms. However, in my most morose hours, I
can't resist accepting the inevitability of evolving retinas which will
shield us from each other, so that perhaps we will see a ghost or only a
cape or maybe only just a few loose stitches hovering there stubbornly.
Why? Do you allways sit on the fence...
On Apr 3, 2005 7:39 AM, why the lucky stiff <ruby-talk@whytheluckystiff.net> wrote:
_why
--
Into RFID? www.rfidnewsupdate.com Simple, fast, news.
Nah; might just be a spell of blogorrhea.
However, PC users responding to requests for help with Rails might want to admit to their transgression when posting, so that the recipient knows to view the response with adequate suspicion.
I'd have thought he should welcome Rails uptake on Windows. More proof he has a good solution. Telling your potential customers they are somehow lesser for using a platform he doesn't personally like is, well, it strikes me as that he has an attitude problem.
Look up "Ed Esber" on Google. Look at what company he ran and why it failed.
Stephen
In message <424C1A19.5020108@neurogami.com>, James Britt <james_b@neurogami.com> writes
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
I'm NOT an addict. I can give it up any time I ...
NO YOU WILL NOT DELETE IT FROM MY SYSTEM!
This one application makes me at least 20 times more productive in
Windows than I will be in bash. With its built in FTP support and
pluggable SFTP support (flaky, but...), it is the *single* application
that is *always* running on my system. Always.
-austin
On Mar 31, 2005 1:01 PM, Nikolai Weibull <mailing-lists.ruby-talk@rawuncut.elitemail.org> wrote:
* Austin Ziegler (Mar 31, 2005 19:30):
> > OTOH, I get the commandline. Having a native ZSH, a simple to use
> > package manager, and everything for free means that there's no
> > reason for me to use Windows at all anymore. Windows just didn't
> > work the way I needed, Linux does. I should say *nix does, because I
> > also have an iBook which I love.
> *shrug* That's where we differ. I use a Norton Commander clone (Total
> Commander) in place of the command-line most of the time. I use the
> command-line in Windows to great effect for many things, and I can
> drop into Cygwin if I need to.
Ah, a fellow total commander addict. It's the one application I have
installed on my Windows installation besides Warcraft 3,
--
Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
* Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca
Please demonstrate why the Mac is not proprietary and
where I can buy a Mac with a mouse having more than one button.No, I'm sorry, I won't, for 2 reasons:
- this place is not the right place.
By email then.
- I've probably had this kind of "discussion" a quintizillion times and
I know exactly how it's going to end. There's absolutely no point.
There is every point. Its a matter of fact, not opinion. Either you are right or you are wrong. You are wrong on the price front as others have noted. On the remaining two point you are taking the classic "I know better than thou" stance but refusing to provide the answers. That is a stance that trolls take.
Stephen
In message <1gub8tr.zzbealug7u6qN%lucsky@mac.com>, Luc Heinrich <lucsky@mac.com> writes
Stephen Kellett <snail@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
* Mark Probert <probertm@acm.org> [0336 21:36]:
Hi ..
[ on as-400s ]
> But they don't 'wield them', do they? Not unless they're the size of king
> kong, at least.
Taken an axe to them is close
You'd be there a while
I wish I could remember the origins of the quote I heard somewhere during an
'intel/amd clock cycle pissing contest' somewhere on usenet. Some grizzled vet
piped up with:
"They're not real computers.
A real computer is one that would kill you if it fell on you"
On Thursday 31 March 2005 11:31, Dick Davies wrote:
--
'The heroes claimed that they did care about people getting shot,
so they crashed their cars into them instead.'
-- DNA, on 'Starsky and Hutch'
Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
> was chosen because it was cheap and easy to obtain in bulk. Rice +
> sugar is essentially a formula leading to an overdose of carbohydrate.
> At least in my culture, this combination seems to have been wrecking
> havoc over generations.And yet, Japan is one of the healthiest populations in the world:
http://www3.who.int/whosis/hale/hale.cfm?language=en
I've read a number of theories about how this is related to its diet,
which tends to emphasize fresh ingredients and be low in salt. Also, I
think it helps that East Asian cuisines don't traditionally include
dairy at all.
Here's another theory that seems to think it's not to do with the rice
at all:
http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/life_expectancy.htm
And in any case, I can only speak for myself. When airport security
insists I look closer to 19 than 29, and that I certainly don't look
anything like my passport photo taken 5 years ago, maybe I'm doing
something right.
(I travelled to Taiwan last year and was astounded by the grad students
who took us to lunch and dinner, diving into 6-course meals with gusto
but who were all quite skinny themselves.)
Interesting. I do certainly eat my fill and more as well, but I am
certainly not indiscriminate about what I eat.
Not that we don't all grow old, suffer and die anyway... the
inevitability that the Buddha so wisely pointed out.
Cheers,
Navin.
Francis Hwang <sera@fhwang.net> wrote:
* Francis Hwang <sera@fhwang.net> [0402 16:02]:
>'what the hell does the developers personality have to do with your
>choice
>of tools?'
Talking more theoretically: It does matter. Most software is a process,
not a product.If you're doing anything interesting, a new software lib is not going
to do 100% of what you need. Even a heavily patched, highly used
framework like Rails. So you'll need to submit patches or bug reports
and generally communicate with the folks that can make the changes.
(You can always patch yourself, of course, but for some gnarly bugs
that can slow a newbie down quite a bit.) You'd like to know that those
people are considerate and responsive and have a little bit of
humility.
I've submitted a few patches to Rails, and I did'nt have to create them in
SubEthaEdit.
DHH has the right to be as opinionated as anyone else in my book. I've never
met an unpredjudiced individual, at least he's honest about his preferences.
I'm more bothered about his love of MySQL personally, but my patches to the
postgresql side of things are handled promptly - I don't even have to wear
the special elephant armband on weekends
On Mar 31, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Dick Davies wrote:
--
'Tempers are wearing thin. Let's hope some robot doesn't kill everybody.'
-- Bender
Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
Hi,
>Nah; might just be a spell of blogorrhea.
>However, PC users responding to requests for help with Rails might want
>to admit to their transgression when posting, so that the recipient
>knows to view the response with adequate suspicion.I'd have thought he should welcome Rails uptake on Windows. More proof
he has a good solution. Telling your potential customers they are
somehow lesser for using a platform he doesn't personally like is, well,
it strikes me as that he has an attitude problem.Look up "Ed Esber" on Google. Look at what company he ran and why it
failed.
While you are at it, see this:
The whole IT has an attitude problem -- an attitude that leads
everyone to project failures. You are right, people on Windows, Linux
and Mac keep failing to deliver on time, on budget, what has been
planned. OSs don't matter. People do.
Cheers,
Joao
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 01:44:46 +0900, Stephen Kellett <snail@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
In message <424C1A19.5020108@neurogami.com>, James Britt > <james_b@neurogami.com> writes
Hi ..
On Thursday 31 March 2005 15:19, Dick Davies wrote:
"They're not real computers.
A real computer is one that would kill you if it fell on you"
I liked the old one: Real computers are black and have blinking lights.
BeBox got it right, and Tandem were a past master of the Art 
--
-mark. (probertm at acm dot org)
> Ah, a fellow total commander addict. It's the one application I have
> installed on my Windows installation besides Warcraft 3,I'm NOT an addict. I can give it up any time I ...
NO YOU WILL NOT DELETE IT FROM MY SYSTEM!
This one application makes me at least 20 times more productive in
Windows than I will be in bash. With its built in FTP support and
pluggable SFTP support (flaky, but...), it is the *single* application
that is *always* running on my system. Always.
Time to try the new VFS plugins to Nautilus
There is every point. Its a matter of fact, not opinion. Either you are
right or you are wrong.
The world is not black and white, the world is gray.
There's always a "but".
You are wrong on the price front as others have noted.
<http://osviews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=23
50&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0>
<http://homepage.mac.com/jpapola/iblog/C142463209/E1992940857/>
<http://www.macworld.com/news/2002/06/13/deal/>
<http://www.apple.com/macmini/>
These are just examples (among hundreds of others, Google is your
friend) of why the 'overpriced' stance is not a fact, but usually an
uninformed out-of-context opinion.
I may not be right, but I am definitely not wrong either. The world is
not black and white, the world is gray.
On the remaining two point you are taking the classic "I know
better than thou" stance but refusing to provide the answers.
On the infamous 'one button mouse', here's a good read:
<Gear Live | Gear Live
ttoned_mouse_01280820/>
Now, saying that you hate Macs because they come with a one button mouse
is probably as moronic as saying that I hate Windows because it comes
with Internet Explorer (except that MSIE is proven to be technically
inferior to alternatives, while the one-button-mouse isn't). So yes,
Macs come with a one button mouse, here's your fact. So what ? How is
that a problem ? Leave it in the box and plug a multibutton mouse, OS X
will support it just fine. That's exactly the same as leaving MSIE alone
and downloading/installing Firefox (or Mozilla, or Opera, or whatever),
and if that is all you have to prove that Macs suck, I wonder who have
an attitude problem here... :>
Now, on the 'proprietary' thing, again you are being just vague and
out-of-context.
Proprietary software ? Go and have a look here:
<http://opensource.apple.com>
Not white (fully opensource), but also *very* far from being black, as
your "fact" would suggest.
Proprietary hardware ? As someone else already asked in this thread,
what is non-proprietary hardware exactly ? Does it really exist ? If
Apple's hardware is so proprietary and opaque, how is it possible that
you can run and install half a dozen Linux distros and/or BSD variants
on it ?
Again, you hating the Mac is not a problem for me, I really don't care,
it's your loss. You spreading FUD and presenting it as "facts", yes,
that is a problem for me. The world is not black and white, the world is
gray.
And now finally, I'd like to apologize to the group/list as a whole, I
promised to not followup and add more offtopic material and noise, but I
got enough insults by email after this (you know who you are) to at
least try to clarify.
Stephen Kellett <snail@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
--
Luc Heinrich - lucsky@mac.com - http://www.honk-honk.com
Austin Ziegler wrote:
Ah, a fellow total commander addict. It's the one application I have
pluggable SFTP support (flaky, but...), it is the *single* application
that is *always* running on my system. Always.
Seems a lot like my relation with Directory Opus. I can't say which is the most powerful of the two, but it gets downright silly if one compares either to Explorer.
Strange why you value so much an application-specific VFS which can't
be used from elsewhere.
A similar thing I am addict to is shfs (http://sfhs.sf.net), by which I
can mount any computer's fs remotely to which I have ssh access and
runs shell or perl (it's for Linux).
There are other means for similar purposes as well (fuse,
gnome-vfs-mount, lufs).
The point is that the remote fs will be integrated to your filesystem,
transparently to all of your apps. Now *that's* cool. I can imagine you
can do it under Windows as well somehow, but a VFS tied to a single
app... just better than nothing, IMHO.
That said, this and linux's software suspend (which does work for me)
is what keeps me switching to BSD.
Csaba
"Managing complexity: Most software projects fail to meet their goals"
Cheers
On Mar 31, 2005, at 18:56, Joao Pedrosa wrote:
The whole IT has an attitude problem -- an attitude that leads
everyone to project failures. You are right, people on Windows, Linux
and Mac keep failing to deliver on time, on budget, what has been
planned. OSs don't matter. People do.
--
PA, Onnay Equitursay
http://alt.textdrive.com/
Go it in one.
Stephen
In message <ca24287805033108547f8eeb5a@mail.gmail.com>, Joao Pedrosa <joaopedrosa@gmail.com> writes
The whole IT has an attitude problem -- an attitude that leads
everyone to project failures. You are right, people on Windows, Linux
and Mac keep failing to deliver on time, on budget, what has been
planned. OSs don't matter. People do.
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
So yes,
Macs come with a one button mouse, here's your fact.
Thank you. You were denying this yesterday. Who is spreading FUD?
To open a context menu with a one button mouse you need to two hands (one on the mouse, one to press the key on the keyboard that makes the context menu work, wow, thats good UI design), with a two button mouse you need one finger.
Not white (fully opensource), but also *very* far from being black, as
your "fact" would suggest.
No. I can't get Mac OS X from another vendor, like I could say Red Hat (albeit with another name, recently sued by Red Hat to remove Red Hat's name from their practically identical distro).
Apple's hardware is so proprietary and opaque, how is it possible that
you can run and install half a dozen Linux distros and/or BSD variants
on it ?
I never said anything about opaque. If I want to run Mac OS X on a different brand G5 board I can't (I base this on the decision that Linus purchased a Mac then reformatted it to use Linux - why pay the Apple tax if you don't have to?). That keeps the prices for the hardware higher than it needs to be. Intel (when it dominated the x86 arena completely) claimed it didn't keep the prices high. Funny that as soon as AMD made any significant inroads, prices fell dramatically.
If I want to run Linux/Windows I can choose any number of hardware platforms, for many different chip types and chipsets.
The x86 platform is so open that Intel has various competitors including one that has recently taken the lead in the 64 bit x86 arena.
got enough insults by email after this (you know who you are) to at
Funny, I haven't had one complaint. Anyway, thanks for answering my points and actually proving the point I was making was correct. I won't bother any more. If you hadn't started by insulting my statement of my personal preference (I wasn't for a minute stating you shouldn't use a Mac), none of this would have happened.
You could have replied by email. That would have been fine.
Stephen
In message <1guc0yi.15zntkol3nbh0N%lucsky@mac.com>, Luc Heinrich <lucsky@mac.com> writes
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
Won't even compare. The only thing that is remotely close on Linux,
as far as I know, is Midnight Commander -- and it *sucks*. Nautilus,
being a Gnome application, is inherently unusable.
There's some really cool VFS plugins for Total Commander, including
a process explorer.
I can explore and unpack ISOs without a problem. I can explore and
unpack RPMs.
-austin
On Apr 1, 2005 2:45 AM, Aredridel <aredridel@gmail.com> wrote:
Ah, a fellow total commander addict. It's the one application I
have installed on my Windows installation besides Warcraft 3,I'm NOT an addict. I can give it up any time I ...
NO YOU WILL NOT DELETE IT FROM MY SYSTEM!
This one application makes me at least 20 times more productive
in Windows than I will be in bash. With its built in FTP support
and pluggable SFTP support (flaky, but...), it is the *single*
application that is *always* running on my system. Always.Time to try the new VFS plugins to Nautilus
--
Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
* Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca