PickAxe 2 licensing

ruby-talk
41

Ummm.... we have that. I (and some great helpers) added the book's documentation for all built-in classes and modules to the source a while back. This means they can be RDoced, and hence viewed using ri and as HTML. Have a look at http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/rdoc/1.9/

Cheers

Dave

(Gosh, it'd be nice if ruby-doc attributed its contributors... I'm guessing that I wrote at least 50% of the site's content :))

···

On Jul 9, 2004, at 12:27, Sean O'Dell wrote:

It'd be nice if someone kept the Ruby APIs documented in a
searchable/browsable way, akin to how PHP docs are maintained, but I
personally don't need the entire Pickaxe as PDF/HTML.

42

Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of the book,
but which only returns very short excerpts (like one partial sentence) and
their matching page numbers. License various web site hosters, like
ruby-docs.org and other potentially willing participants, to install a mirror
of the web site.

awesome idea.

I really hate when I grab a hard copy and start constructing the grep
command in my head for what I want. An index just isn't the same. :slight_smile:

Cameron

43

Wouldn't a PDF let you do this?

Cheers

Dave

···

On Jul 10, 2004, at 15:11, Sean O'Dell wrote:

Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of the book,

44

safari, the online bookstore, does something like this. Actually it
let's you look just the top of the page, not all.

···

il Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:11:23 +0900, "Sean O'Dell" <sean@celsoft.com> ha scritto::

Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of the book,
but which only returns very short excerpts (like one partial sentence) and
their matching page numbers.

45

Thanks, Hal

"Hal Fulton" <hal9000@hypermetrics.com> wrote in message
news:40F02DA8.3070202@hypermetrics.com...

Richard Lionheart wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>
>
>>... i purchased your pragprog book proper, but
>>not the pickaxe ...
>
>
> I thought "The Pickaxe Book" is a nickname for "Programming Ruby: The
> Pragmatic Programmer's Guide", so dubbed because of the picture of a

pickaxe

···

> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004, zuzu <sean.zuzu@gmail.com> wrote:
> on the cover. Am I wrong? Are they really two distinct books?

No, they're the same. He's referring to their first (non-Ruby)
book, _The Pragmatic Programmer_.

Hal

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 7/10/2004

46

Dave Thomas wrote:

It'd be nice if someone kept the Ruby APIs documented in a
searchable/browsable way, akin to how PHP docs are maintained, but I
personally don't need the entire Pickaxe as PDF/HTML.

Ummm.... we have that. I (and some great helpers) added the book's documentation for all built-in classes and modules to the source a while back. This means they can be RDoced, and hence viewed using ri and as HTML. Have a look at http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/rdoc/1.9/

Cheers

Dave

(Gosh, it'd be nice if ruby-doc attributed its contributors... I'm guessing that I wrote at least 50% of the site's content :))

Yea, ruby-doc is very nice!

Are there any plans to add support for a searchable version with user comments?

For example, this doc page for MySQL (searchable with user comments) is much more helpful because of the user comments below the documentation:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/Linux-RPM.html

Thanks and keep up the great work on ruby-doc!

···

On Jul 9, 2004, at 12:27, Sean O'Dell wrote:

47

Dave Thomas wrote:

(Gosh, it'd be nice if ruby-doc attributed its contributors... I'm guessing that I wrote at least 50% of the site's content :))

What sort of attributions, and where should they go?

The site's content is a mix of pointers to assorted resources
   Ruby-Doc.org: Documenting the Ruby Language

... news about documentation and presentations
    http://www.ruby-doc.org

... FAQs and guides and tutorials in assorted languages
    Ruby-Doc.org: Documenting the Ruby Language
    Ruby-Doc.org: Documenting the Ruby Language

... conference videos
   http://www.ruby-doc.org/downloads/Euruko2003/

... the rdoc from the Ruby source:
  http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/rdoc/1.9/
  RDoc Documentation

... an HTML version of Programming Ruby
   Programming Ruby: The Pragmatic Programmer's Guide

.. plus the temporarily suspended ri URL interface

All the hosted content is pretty much "as is"; if a file does not
contain a visible attribution or copyright then it will not appear
anyplace. Basically, what one sees is pretty much the same as when one runs ri or rdoc's the source code. This is mostly so that updates are easy to just drop into place. I don't want to have to go through and munge text, style, formatting, and whatnot.

The Programming Ruby pages have a copyright notice, though it only
mentions the publisher, not the authors; the authors' names only seem to appear on the background image of the cover. If there is a preferred version of the files to host, please let me know.

The std-lib page has attributions and thanks at the bottom of the first page.

I certainly agree that authors should get attribution. I'm not quite sure how and where it be done. There are multiple contributors to the documentation for both the base classes and the standard lib, and I'm not sure how practical it is to list who wrote exactly what (unless perhaps people started signing their names to the source comments).
A more general list of contributors could simply say who contributed content for what general documents (e.g., core classes, std-lib, Programming Ruby). This could go at the bottom of the main page, or on it's own page linked from the home page.

If anyone has content either hosted on ruby-doc.org, or linked from the site, and would like to see an attribution (assuming it isn't already there), and has suggestions on how this should be done, please let me know. I don't want anyone to feel as if their efforts are going unnoticed or their work is being misappropriated.

Similarly, if anyone sees their work on the site and has a problem with it being there, tell me and I'll take it down.

James Britt

james <AT> ruby-doc <DOT> org

48

> Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of
> the book,

Wouldn't a PDF let you do this?

right, but I think it was meant as an alternative in case the PDF is
unavailable or wasn't purchased. At least thats how it translated in
my brain. Plus, it'd be great propaganda
for buying the book when you ship people to a link of specific references. :wink:

Cameron

49

You could release the web site at the same time as the book and not worry
about people pirating a PDF around.

  Sean O'Dell

···

On Saturday 10 July 2004 13:57, Dave Thomas wrote:

On Jul 10, 2004, at 15:11, Sean O'Dell wrote:
> Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of
> the book,

Wouldn't a PDF let you do this?

50

It does, but I think the idea is that it would be most useful for people who
buy the hard copy of the book as a sort of super-index. It doesn't return
enough of the body of work for it to be useful to someone without the book,
but with the book in hand it would help one quickly find whatever one needed
out of the book.

Kirk Haines

···

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:57:01 +0900, Dave Thomas wrote

On Jul 10, 2004, at 15:11, Sean O'Dell wrote:
> Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of
> the book,

Wouldn't a PDF let you do this?

51

Cameron McBride wrote:

Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of the book,
but which only returns very short excerpts (like one partial sentence) and
their matching page numbers.

Like what amazon.com does? (Though amazon returns the whole page.)

James

52

I was hoping for searchability and user comments, too.

Also, it would be nice if the nav frame were placed on the left, instead of up
top, and methods were only listed for the module/class selected, instead of
all lumped together in one long list.

  Sean O'Dell

···

On Friday 09 July 2004 11:03, Randy Lawrence wrote:

Dave Thomas wrote:
> On Jul 9, 2004, at 12:27, Sean O'Dell wrote:
>> It'd be nice if someone kept the Ruby APIs documented in a
>> searchable/browsable way, akin to how PHP docs are maintained, but I
>> personally don't need the entire Pickaxe as PDF/HTML.
>
> Ummm.... we have that. I (and some great helpers) added the book's
> documentation for all built-in classes and modules to the source a while
> back. This means they can be RDoced, and hence viewed using ri and as
> HTML. Have a look at http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/rdoc/1.9/

Are there any plans to add support for a searchable version with user
comments?

53

Sean O'Dell wrote:

Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of
the book,
     

Wouldn't a PDF let you do this?
   
You could release the web site at the same time as the book and not worry about people pirating a PDF around.

Sean O'Dell

It is very easy to download an entire web page for distribution. I have a few C++ doc sites downloaded so I can read them when I am traveling. Using a freeware program I had the entire site on my hard drive in just a few seconds. I don't think a pdf or web page can offer any real security in terms of distribution. Even if you password protect a pdf the document can be distributed by a sharer with a text file containing the access code.
So in short, if they put a version online and the Ruby community grows enough someone will probably start illegal distribution. As someone who hopes to one day be published this makes me unhappy but it is the way things seem to work with any sufficiently large community and a copyrighted work.

-Matthew Margolis

···

On Saturday 10 July 2004 13:57, Dave Thomas wrote:

On Jul 10, 2004, at 15:11, Sean O'Dell wrote:

54

Kirk Haines wrote:

Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of the book,

Wouldn't a PDF let you do this?

It does, but I think the idea is that it would be most useful for people who buy the hard copy of the book as a sort of super-index. It doesn't return enough of the body of work for it to be useful to someone without the book, but with the book in hand it would help one quickly find whatever one needed out of the book.

What about an ri plugin or extension, something that returns the normal ri contents, but also gives a Pickaxe 2 page ref.

ri -pa2 String

(Maybe just patching the ri YAML files could accomplish this, if you don't mind seeing it appear by default on all ri queries.)

Still, a simple HTML file on the the PragProg page with the book index would be helpful for greps.

James

···

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:57:01 +0900, Dave Thomas wrote

On Jul 10, 2004, at 15:11, Sean O'Dell wrote:

55

We sell PDFs of our existing books. Each is personalized with the name of the buyer.

We did have someone release the books online. We tracked them down using this name, and got the site shut down.

Now, it's not perfect: they'll be people who don't care, or who put other people's copies on P2P networks, but in general it seems to be a fairly good compromise.

I don't like restricted PDFs: if you buy something, I think you get the right to use it.

Cheers

Dave

···

On Jul 10, 2004, at 17:01, Matthew Margolis wrote:

So in short, if they put a version online and the Ruby community grows enough someone will probably start illegal distribution. As someone who hopes to one day be published this makes me unhappy but it is the way things seem to work with any sufficiently large community and a copyrighted work.

56

Hello Matthew,

I don't think a pdf or web page can offer any real security in terms of
distribution. Even if you password protect a pdf the document can be
distributed by a sharer with a text file containing the access code.

A copy protection schema is just there to keep honest people honest.
Nothing else.

There are hundrets of books, from PDF's to privately scanned onces
like Stevens famous "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment"
available via my "EMule" P2P network. Even "The Ruby Way" and "Ruby in
21 days" are available illegally.

···

--
Best regards, emailto: scholz at scriptolutions dot com
Lothar Scholz http://www.ruby-ide.com
CTO Scriptolutions Ruby, PHP, Python IDE 's

57

The web site only returns brief snippets, it doesn't let you browse the entire
book.

  Sean O'Dell

···

On Saturday 10 July 2004 15:01, Matthew Margolis wrote:

It is very easy to download an entire web page for distribution. I have

58

someone could OCR the hardcopy and release an illicit PDF as well.
many a .ru domain have my favorite fictions by neal stephenson,
william gibson, greg egan, et. al.

to make the belabored point, if people can view data they can save and
redistribute that same data. copy protection / drm is all smoke and
mirrors. only compiling software gets away with such trickery as well
as it does because really the computer views the data, not a person.

unless we're writing books for computers to read to themselves now?

-z

···

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 07:01:24 +0900, Matthew Margolis <mrmargolis@wisc.edu> wrote:

Sean O'Dell wrote:

>On Saturday 10 July 2004 13:57, Dave Thomas wrote:
>
>
>>On Jul 10, 2004, at 15:11, Sean O'Dell wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Crazy idea: a website that lets people search the entire contents of
>>>the book,
>>>
>>>
>>Wouldn't a PDF let you do this?
>>
>>
>
>You could release the web site at the same time as the book and not worry
>about people pirating a PDF around.
>
> Sean O'Dell
>
>
>
It is very easy to download an entire web page for distribution. I have
a few C++ doc sites downloaded so I can read them when I am traveling.
Using a freeware program I had the entire site on my hard drive in just
a few seconds.
I don't think a pdf or web page can offer any real security in terms of
distribution. Even if you password protect a pdf the document can be
distributed by a sharer with a text file containing the access code.
So in short, if they put a version online and the Ruby community grows
enough someone will probably start illegal distribution. As someone who
hopes to one day be published this makes me unhappy but it is the way
things seem to work with any sufficiently large community and a
copyrighted work.

-Matthew Margolis

59

well, take a look at
ruby-talk:105782

it seem that the pickaxe reference is going to end in the ruby source
again (if I understand correctly)

···

il Sun, 11 Jul 2004 08:14:33 +0900, James Britt <jamesUNDERBARb@neurogami.com> ha scritto::

ri -pa2 String

60

Hi,

···

--- Dave Thomas <dave@pragprog.com> wrote:

On Jul 10, 2004, at 17:01, Matthew Margolis wrote:
> So in short, if they put a version online and the
Ruby community grows
> enough someone will probably start illegal
distribution. As someone
> who hopes to one day be published this makes me
unhappy but it is the
> way things seem to work with any sufficiently
large community and a
> copyrighted work.

We sell PDFs of our existing books. Each is
personalized with the name
of the buyer.

We did have someone release the books online. We
tracked them down
using this name, and got the site shut down.

Now, it's not perfect: they'll be people who don't
care, or who put
other people's copies on P2P networks, but in
general it seems to be a
fairly good compromise.

I don't like restricted PDFs: if you buy something,
I think you get the
right to use it.

Cheers

Dave

Cool, then please, make a digital version that I would
buy it in a second (with mastercard, please). :wink:

Cheers,
Joao

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