Discourse is one of the top 3 Rails, Ember.js, and Ruby open source
projects in the world and we love giving back to the community.
We imported all messages from the past and new emails will appear shortly
after they were sent to the mailing list. Sign-ups are currently disabled,
but you can already browse through topics and search for specific posts. In
the future users will be able to sign up and use all the features of
Discourse <https://www.discourse.org/> to interact with the mailing list.
Check it out and feel free to tell us what you think about it. We'd
appreciate your feedback.
I remember there was a longer discussion on the mailinglist
vs. Discourse topic, and I am very happy to see that the two options are
appearently not exclusive. I think that a proper mirror of Ruby-Talk to
a modern web interface that at the same time preserves the e-mail UI
many people like is going to benefit the Ruby community, if done well.
The more difficult topics in web interfaces to mailinglists are how to
process the markup of emails (because many emails resemble, but are just
not Markdown, not to mention ASCII art) and preserval of the thread
structure. I know because I've tried myself[1], but I guess time will
tell how well this works in this case.
Personally, I however prefer using the mailinglist via e-mail using
mutt.
I remember there was a longer discussion on the mailinglist
vs. Discourse topic, and I am very happy to see that the two options are
appearently not exclusive. I think that a proper mirror of Ruby-Talk to
a modern web interface that at the same time preserves the e-mail UI
many people like is going to benefit the Ruby community, if done well.
The more difficult topics in web interfaces to mailinglists are how to
process the markup of emails (because many emails resemble, but are just
not Markdown, not to mention ASCII art) and preserval of the thread
structure. I know because I've tried myself[1], but I guess time will
tell how well this works in this case.
Personally, I however prefer using the mailinglist via e-mail using
mutt.
I always read mail in this thread and i like the interface
···
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:40 AM, Marvin Gülker <m-guelker@phoenixmail.de> wrote:
Am 20. November 2017 um 21:53 Uhr +0100 schrieb Gerhard Schlager < > gerhard.schlager@discourse.org>:
> I work at Discourse and would like to announce our mirror of the
Ruby-Talk
> mailing list.
>
> https://ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com
I remember there was a longer discussion on the mailinglist
vs. Discourse topic, and I am very happy to see that the two options are
appearently not exclusive. I think that a proper mirror of Ruby-Talk to
a modern web interface that at the same time preserves the e-mail UI
many people like is going to benefit the Ruby community, if done well.
The more difficult topics in web interfaces to mailinglists are how to
process the markup of emails (because many emails resemble, but are just
not Markdown, not to mention ASCII art) and preserval of the thread
structure. I know because I've tried myself[1], but I guess time will
tell how well this works in this case.
Personally, I however prefer using the mailinglist via e-mail using
mutt.
Well then, that just hurt my feelings, but I guess I can deal with it.
I guess what I am struggling here with is why be against a 2 way
bridge? This will make it significantly easier for people that prefer
a web interface to interact using a web interface and we don't get to
pry mailman out of your cold dead hands.
At the risk of speaking for someone else (which I'm definitely doing):
Dear god, please no.
Well then, that just hurt my feelings, but I guess I can deal with it.
I guess what I am struggling here with is why be against a 2 way
bridge?
I read it as a response to the second question, thus:
Do we want to just migrate to Discourse.
Dear god, please no.
You weren't very clear about precisely what you wanted to migrate to
Discourse. If you meant "migrate the entire discussion apparatus"
then this was an understandable (if emotional) response. I suspect
you meant "migrate the currently-dead web interface", which is a very
different thing.
As long as Discourse sends email in a way that works well with
whatever listserv drives ruby-talk, I don't have any opinion.
For what it's worth, I ready ruby-talk in email, and will continue to
(occasionally) write to ruby-talk in email. That's just me.
Cheers
···
On 21 November 2017 at 12:23, Sam Saffron <sam.saffron@gmail.com> wrote:
--
Matthew Kerwin http://matthew.kerwin.net.au/
PS. (thirteen minutes later, when my message showed up): it doesn't
seem to render doubly-nested quoted messages particularly well. I'm
sending in plain text, so it shouldn't be a gmail thing.
Cheers
···
On 21 November 2017 at 12:40, Matthew Kerwin <matthew@kerwin.net.au> wrote:
As long as Discourse sends email in a way that works well with
whatever listserv drives ruby-talk, I don't have any opinion.
it doesn't seem to render doubly-nested quoted messages particularly well.
Yeah we had to turn of markdown here cause people are not composing
markdown in the mailing list. The custom processor is only handling 1
level of nesting with quotes, we should fix it.
···
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Matthew Kerwin <matthew@kerwin.net.au> wrote:
On 21 November 2017 at 12:40, Matthew Kerwin <matthew@kerwin.net.au> wrote:
As long as Discourse sends email in a way that works well with
whatever listserv drives ruby-talk, I don't have any opinion.
PS. (thirteen minutes later, when my message showed up): it doesn't
seem to render doubly-nested quoted messages particularly well. I'm
sending in plain text, so it shouldn't be a gmail thing.
Discourse is one of the top 3 Rails, Ember.js, and Ruby open source
projects in the world and we love giving back to the community.
We imported all messages from the past and new emails will appear
shortly after they were sent to the mailing list. Sign-ups are
currently disabled, but you can already browse through topics and
search for specific posts. In the future users will be able to sign up
and use all the features of Discourse [2] to interact with the mailing
list.
Check it out and feel free to tell us what you think about it. We'd
appreciate your feedback.
While I am generally an email-list sort of person, I do use a number of Discourse powered fora and have even set up Discourse for one of my own projects once. I am very happy to have this Ruby facility - I am generally keeping all the Ruby posts that interest me but that process is not always reliable so having the mirror is a great idea - and like someone else said, it is really interesting to be able look at all the historical stuff and to go back to stuff that I didn't save because it wasn't interesting at the time but has become important.
Thanks!
Phil.
···
On 2017-11-21 06:53, Gerhard Schlager wrote:
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
E-mail: phil@pricom.com.au
This is how I understood the announcement. Keep the current way
Ruby-Talk works (Mailman) and have Discourse deliver e-mails to and
receive e-mails from it. The pure e-mail communication would continue to
work via Mailman just as it always was.
Just to be clear: I am strictly against moving the entire platform over
to Discourse. Mailman does the e-mail job well and should continue to do
it. But as outlined in my original response, I see a good opportunity to
make Ruby-Talk more accessible to people preferring web sites.
That being said, Mailman's new major version (Mailman 3) has also added
a very nice web interface named Hyperkitty that replaces the aged
Pipermail that's in use on lists.ruby-lang.org currently. Take a look at
the "archives" of the mailman3 user's mailinglist that are served using
Hyperkitty:
Once the infrastructure on lists.ruby-lang.org is upgraded some years
into the future, it's likely we'll see this web interface for Ruby-Talk.
Greetings
Marvin
···
Am 21. November 2017 um 12:40 Uhr +1000 schrieb Matthew Kerwin <matthew@kerwin.net.au>:
You weren't very clear about precisely what you wanted to migrate to
Discourse. If you meant "migrate the entire discussion apparatus"
then this was an understandable (if emotional) response. I suspect
you meant "migrate the currently-dead web interface", which is a very
different thing.
As long as Discourse sends email in a way that works well with
whatever listserv drives ruby-talk, I don't have any opinion.
Just for the record: we had a two way bridge between the mailing list
and NTTP in the pas. That caused issues occasionally. Such a setup is
always more complex and error prone than a simple mailing list.
For me the mailing list is good enough and I do not need something new
and fancy. But if it helps attract more people to Ruby I am all for
it. (Never used Discourse to significant extent though.)
Kind regards
robert
···
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 9:14 AM, Sam Saffron <sam.saffron@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not against a 2-way bridge -- I just don't believe Discourse is it.
So you are objecting to something that has zero impact on your
workflow for ... reasons?
That kind of assumption probably explains why Discourse is so bad
in the first place.
1. The general UX of Discourse "email" is extremely clumsy:
- top-posted
- irrelevant visual clutter
- no plain-text option AFAIK
- can't "mute" threads in gmail
2. Content accuracy and consistency is *critical* for a *technical*
mailing list. The email gated from a Discourse forum:
- drops information
- interprets code examples as markup
- allows forum users to edit posts without triggering another email
Any one of the items under #2 would be a show-stopper for me...
YMMV
···
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Sam Saffron <sam.saffron@gmail.com> wrote:
So you are objecting to something that has zero impact on your
workflow
--
Hassan Schroeder ------------------------ hassan.schroeder@gmail.com
twitter: @hassan
Consulting Availability : Silicon Valley or remote
1. The general UX of Discourse "email" is extremely clumsy:
- top-posted
- irrelevant visual clutter
- no plain-text option AFAIK
- can't "mute" threads in gmail
I agree with all of this -- which is to say that it was certainly true for me when Discourse was released, and I have no intent of ever trying it again, partly on that basis.
Since I'm simply not going to use it, any decision here has zero effect on me _personally_.
But for what is it worth, my opinion on the effect on the list _in general_: I think it is bad for the list. But given the low volume of posts, it's probably not important either way?
This is true, but I just assumed that the installation presented by the
OP was configured to deal with those issues as they're known problems of
any mailinglist<->web interface gateway. If the Discourse gateway
pollutes the mailinglist with unreadable posts or doesn't properly
thread (or what do you mean with "loses information"?), it shouldn't be
continued. The editing question is resolvable by sending e-mails on
edits, or disallowing edits.
I think it should be given a chance, but the gateway should be a good
mailinglist citizen. If it isn't, it should be closed. For the moment,
I'm all for just trying it out.
Greetings
Marvin
···
Am 21. November 2017 um 08:49 Uhr -0800 schrieb Hassan Schroeder <hassan.schroeder@gmail.com>:
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Sam Saffron <sam.saffron@gmail.com> wrote:
> So you are objecting to something that has zero impact on your
> workflow
That kind of assumption probably explains why Discourse is so bad
in the first place.
1. The general UX of Discourse "email" is extremely clumsy:
- top-posted
- irrelevant visual clutter
- no plain-text option AFAIK
- can't "mute" threads in gmail
2. Content accuracy and consistency is *critical* for a *technical*
mailing list. The email gated from a Discourse forum:
- drops information
- interprets code examples as markup
- allows forum users to edit posts without triggering another email
Any one of the items under #2 would be a show-stopper for me...
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Marvin Gülker <m-guelker@phoenixmail.de> wrote:
Am 20. November 2017 um 21:53 Uhr +0100 schrieb Gerhard Schlager < > gerhard.schlager@discourse.org>:
I remember there was a longer discussion on the mailinglist
vs. Discourse topic, and I am very happy to see that the two options are
appearently not exclusive. I think that a proper mirror of Ruby-Talk to
a modern web interface that at the same time preserves the e-mail UI
many people like is going to benefit the Ruby community, if done well.
The more difficult topics in web interfaces to mailinglists are how to
process the markup of emails (because many emails resemble, but are just
not Markdown, not to mention ASCII art) and preserval of the thread
structure. I know because I've tried myself[1], but I guess time will
tell how well this works in this case.
Personally, I however prefer using the mailinglist via e-mail using
mutt.
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:14 PM, Eric Christopherson <echristopherson@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Marvin Gülker <m-guelker@phoenixmail.de> > wrote:
Am 20. November 2017 um 21:53 Uhr +0100 schrieb Gerhard Schlager >> <gerhard.schlager@discourse.org>:
> I work at Discourse and would like to announce our mirror of the
> Ruby-Talk
> mailing list.
>
> https://ruby-talk.trydiscourse.com