Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?
Hi --
On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Skotty wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?
Have you looked at Chris Pine's "Learn to Program" book? It uses Ruby
as the instruction language.
David
--
David A. Black | dblack@wobblini.net
Author of "Ruby for Rails" [1] | Ruby/Rails training & consultancy [3]
DABlog (DAB's Weblog) [2] | Co-director, Ruby Central, Inc. [4]
[1] Ruby for Rails | [3] http://www.rubypowerandlight.com
[2] http://dablog.rubypal.com | [4] http://www.rubycentral.org
How much programming experience do you have? If you have never done
any programming whatsoever, then diving straight into Ruby and _why's
guide is probably not the best way to go.
Go to your local library and grab the first volume of Knuth's "The Art
of Computer Programming". Read and understand this book -- it will
give you a fantastic foundation for any language that you pick up.
Persevere and good luck!
TwP
On 11/2/06, Skotty <shyguyfrenzy@gmail.com> wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?
There was a fun side conversation on this at RubyConf this year. Basically, you need to know this: Computers are really, really stupid. 
Don't buy that? Try this exercise:
Make up a random number.
You had no trouble doing that, right? Well congratulations, because you just leap ahead of about 30 years of computer research in a few seconds.
Obviously, I'm being flippant here, but the point stands. Learning to program is hard because you need to dumb yourself down to the level of the machine and express problems in terms it can understand.
Did you ever play that game in school where you had to tell your teacher how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? You write up what you just know are excellent instructions and as you read them the teacher makes a mess all over the place, spreading jelly on unopened bread packages, table-tops, and other children, just by following the instructions literally. The teacher is simulating a computer here.
In the RubyConf discussion we decided that our popular books and tutorials don't always do a very good job of teaching you how to think like that. Therein lies at least one hurdle of learning to program.
Here's another interesting point: most of us who have been speaking to machines for a reasonable period of time can pick up new languages pretty easily. The reason is that we already have a lot of practice with the thinking-dumb part and we just need to learn the new syntax. (Our books and tutorials *are* good at teaching this.)
Anyway, the point of all this is: don't panic. We all go through this adjustment period you're in now. It gets easier. The problem is that you're just way too intelligent. Don't worry though, we'll have you dumbed down in no time! 
Welcome to programming.
James Edward Gray II
On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Skotty wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?
If it's any consolation, I'm a programmer and am finding Ruby tricky to pick up. There are some powerful concepts in there like blocks and iterators that are new to me.
Keep at it and you'll pick it up ... as someone recommended above, choosing a problem that you want to solve will keep you interested.
Good luck!
Bob
On 2 Nov 2006, at 18:23, Skotty wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?
Skotty wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?
what kind of programs do you want to create?
Skotty wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of
these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with
this for a while and don't want to give up.Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby?
Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this
information.Any help guides?
Anything?
Depends on your background and your goals. I assume you have no
programming at all. If this is the case,the best way is to find a small
project you are interested in and try to solve it with Ruby or other
languages, such Perl. After that you may know which one might fit you at
this stage. Once you have enough programming background you should be
able to learn another one pretty fast.
Good luck,
Li
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.
Yah David,
Maybe it's just my own lack of comprehension I just don't know why none of this is sticking. I've been dabbling with Ruby for a good month now and only know the very basics.
Should there be a Ruby for dummies book, for guys like me?
----- Original Message ----- From: <dblack@wobblini.net>
To: "ruby-talk ML" <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Just a question to throw out there...
Hi --
On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Skotty wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?Have you looked at Chris Pine's "Learn to Program" book? It uses Ruby
as the instruction language.David
--
David A. Black | dblack@wobblini.net
Author of "Ruby for Rails" [1] | Ruby/Rails training & consultancy [3]
DABlog (DAB's Weblog) [2] | Co-director, Ruby Central, Inc. [4]
[1] Ruby for Rails | [3] http://www.rubypowerandlight.com
[2] http://dablog.rubypal.com | [4] http://www.rubycentral.org
This is indeed my "first" dive into programming, with little unsuccessful dabs here and there (a couple days or so of trying and then quitting) with a couple other languages than ruby.
But I never stick with it, and I'd love to learn something. Maybe I'll head down to the library and check that out, it couldn't hurt I guess. For now I'll continue with my "hello world" screens.
thanks
skt
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Pease" <tim.pease@gmail.com>
To: "ruby-talk ML" <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Just a question to throw out there...
On 11/2/06, Skotty <shyguyfrenzy@gmail.com> wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?How much programming experience do you have? If you have never done
any programming whatsoever, then diving straight into Ruby and _why's
guide is probably not the best way to go.Go to your local library and grab the first volume of Knuth's "The Art
of Computer Programming". Read and understand this book -- it will
give you a fantastic foundation for any language that you pick up.Persevere and good luck!
TwP
Go to your local library and grab the first volume of Knuth's "The Art
of Computer Programming". Read and understand this book -- it will
give you a fantastic foundation for any language that you pick up.
IMO not good advice for someone new. There's a good chance that a beginner, who is told he/she must "read and understand" Knuth to become a programmer, will walk away from programming forever after picking up this book. It's a great book, but not for beginners. Did you read and comprehend Knuth _before_ you got your first program up and running? Did you master MIX assembly language as your first programming language?
I think the Chris Pine book is a far better recommendation.
http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
Persevere and good luck!
Now that's good advice.
Regards, Morton
On Nov 2, 2006, at 1:49 PM, Tim Pease wrote:
Wow. I respect that book a lot Tim, but start there? I must be a wimp because that book still intimidates me today!
James Edward Gray II
On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:49 PM, Tim Pease wrote:
Go to your local library and grab the first volume of Knuth's "The Art
of Computer Programming". Read and understand this book -- it will
give you a fantastic foundation for any language that you pick up.
That was the most amusing email I've read all day. Thank you, that made me feel about 300 times more confident.
Naturally I think a major part of my problem is I'm trying TOO hard to become a programmer and not enough time focusing on the basics. I've read several other pieces of code, and scripts and thought "well hey i can do that." which I guess is probably not the best way to go about it.
I AM learning, I mean I guess at least a little bit. But it feels like it's taking me a really long time to retain.
Well thanks for the welcome, I'm sure I'll get it Im just frustrated that I'm not getting it right away.
Skt
Webpage (www.freewebs.com/scottygiveshighfives)
Email: Shyguyfrenzy@gmail.com
(That's a mario reference.)
You sing a new song, unsung.
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Edward Gray II" <james@grayproductions.net>
To: "ruby-talk ML" <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Just a question to throw out there...
On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Skotty wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?There was a fun side conversation on this at RubyConf this year. Basically, you need to know this: Computers are really, really stupid.
Don't buy that? Try this exercise:
Make up a random number.
You had no trouble doing that, right? Well congratulations, because you just leap ahead of about 30 years of computer research in a few seconds.
Obviously, I'm being flippant here, but the point stands. Learning to program is hard because you need to dumb yourself down to the level of the machine and express problems in terms it can understand.
Did you ever play that game in school where you had to tell your teacher how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? You write up what you just know are excellent instructions and as you read them the teacher makes a mess all over the place, spreading jelly on unopened bread packages, table-tops, and other children, just by following the instructions literally. The teacher is simulating a computer here.
In the RubyConf discussion we decided that our popular books and tutorials don't always do a very good job of teaching you how to think like that. Therein lies at least one hurdle of learning to program.
Here's another interesting point: most of us who have been speaking to machines for a reasonable period of time can pick up new languages pretty easily. The reason is that we already have a lot of practice with the thinking-dumb part and we just need to learn the new syntax. (Our books and tutorials *are* good at teaching this.)
Anyway, the point of all this is: don't panic. We all go through this adjustment period you're in now. It gets easier. The problem is that you're just way too intelligent. Don't worry though, we'll have you dumbed down in no time!
Welcome to programming.
James Edward Gray II
I was alright with blocks, and then along came these @ and several other things, and def/classes and so forth. I guess it all boils down to how much dedication I'm actually willing to put into it. Which at this moment is high, but I've been known to drop something after a short period of time.
But I'm GOING to stick with this, to learn it and perhaps start other languages.
But for now, I guess I'll just keep reading the tutorials and try that problem solving thing, and pounding them out.
BTW thanks for all the great responses, this is what I like to see in a community.
Skt
Webpage (www.freewebs.com/scottygiveshighfives)
Email: Shyguyfrenzy@gmail.com
(That's a mario reference.)
You sing a new song, unsung.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Conn" <bob.conn@btinternet.com>
To: "ruby-talk ML" <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Just a question to throw out there...
If it's any consolation, I'm a programmer and am finding Ruby tricky to pick up. There are some powerful concepts in there like blocks and iterators that are new to me.
Keep at it and you'll pick it up ... as someone recommended above, choosing a problem that you want to solve will keep you interested.
Good luck!
Bob
On 2 Nov 2006, at 18:23, Skotty wrote:
Another noobrube question.
Is this the "easiest" language to learn? I'm well aware that none of these programming languages are "easy" but I've been struggling with this for a while and don't want to give up.
Or is there something else I should know first BEFORE going to Ruby? Why's guide is a biggggg help but I don't know why I can't retain this information.
Any help guides?
Anything?
James Gray wrote:
On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Skotty wrote:
Here's another interesting point: most of us who have been speaking
to machines for a reasonable period of time can pick up new languages
pretty easily. The reason is that we already have a lot of practice
with the thinking-dumb part and we just need to learn the new
syntax. (Our books and tutorials *are* good at teaching this.)Anyway, the point of all this is: don't panic. We all go through
this adjustment period you're in now. It gets easier. The problem
is that you're just way too intelligent. Don't worry though, we'll
have you dumbed down in no time!Welcome to programming.
James Edward Gray II
I greatly respect James's opinion on practicaly everything he writes on
this forum so obviously after reading this one, I suddenly feel like
killing myself. 
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.
Skotty wrote:
Yah David,
Maybe it's just my own lack of comprehension I just don't know why none of
this is sticking. I've been dabbling with Ruby for a good month now and only
know the very basics.
...
Have a look at this research paper
(http://www.cs.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf\).
It offers to explain why some people take to programming like a
fish to water, and others seem to never get the hang of it.
Maybe it will help you decide where you sit.
In any case, keep plugging at it. I hear the Chris Pine's 'Learn to
Program' is good, and you can also look at 'Programming Ruby'
(first edition is included with Ruby and available online [I like this
version http://phrogz.net/ProgrammingRuby/\])
Have a look at the Ruby Quiz (http://rubyquiz.com/\), lots of good
relatively short and idiomatic Ruby code.
cheers
Chris
I'll be honest, it has been a long time since I've opened up Knuth and
actually read the thing. In a true political move, I'll reverse my
stance and be accused of being a waffler 
Don't start with Knuth!
What helped me most in learning to program was a good course on data
structures and algorithms followed by a course in Object Oriented
programming and design.
Skotty, have you looked into any entry level programming courses at
your local college? If you cannot attend one of these courses, at
least take a look at their book list.
I learned programming as a kid with Logo and its turtle graphics. It
is a programming language that makes very clear James' earlier post
about computers being stupid. It taught me the basics of loops,
control structures, and the coolness of drawing the transformers logo.
Now I'm rambling.
TwP
On 11/2/06, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:
On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:49 PM, Tim Pease wrote:
> Go to your local library and grab the first volume of Knuth's "The Art
> of Computer Programming". Read and understand this book -- it will
> give you a fantastic foundation for any language that you pick up.Wow. I respect that book a lot Tim, but start there? I must be a
wimp because that book still intimidates me today!
Ack, don't say that. I was *trying* to provide encouragement!
James Edward Gray II
On Nov 7, 2006, at 11:13 AM, Ilan Berci wrote:
James Gray wrote:
On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Skotty wrote:
Here's another interesting point: most of us who have been speaking
to machines for a reasonable period of time can pick up new languages
pretty easily. The reason is that we already have a lot of practice
with the thinking-dumb part and we just need to learn the new
syntax. (Our books and tutorials *are* good at teaching this.)Anyway, the point of all this is: don't panic. We all go through
this adjustment period you're in now. It gets easier. The problem
is that you're just way too intelligent. Don't worry though, we'll
have you dumbed down in no time!Welcome to programming.
James Edward Gray II
I greatly respect James's opinion on practicaly everything he writes on
this forum so obviously after reading this one, I suddenly feel like
killing myself.
Hey!!!
Another good book to work with Ruby is *Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby
*<http://poignantguide.net/ruby/>
I found this book to be both fun and useful. Of course in my opinion the
Pickaxe book (Programming Ruby) is one of the best books for Ruby (and maybe
even on programming) out there...
Again, Good luck...
On 11/2/06, ChrisH <chris.hulan@gmail.com> wrote:
Skotty wrote:
> Yah David,
>
> Maybe it's just my own lack of comprehension I just don't know why none
of
> this is sticking. I've been dabbling with Ruby for a good month now and
only
> know the very basics.
>
...Have a look at this research paper
(http://www.cs.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf\).
It offers to explain why some people take to programming like a
fish to water, and others seem to never get the hang of it.
Maybe it will help you decide where you sit.In any case, keep plugging at it. I hear the Chris Pine's 'Learn to
Program' is good, and you can also look at 'Programming Ruby'
(first edition is included with Ruby and available online [I like this
version http://phrogz.net/ProgrammingRuby/\])Have a look at the Ruby Quiz (http://rubyquiz.com/\), lots of good
relatively short and idiomatic Ruby code.cheers
Chris
> Go to your local library and grab the first volume of Knuth's "The Art
> of Computer Programming". Read and understand this book -- it will
> give you a fantastic foundation for any language that you pick up.Wow. I respect that book a lot Tim, but start there? I must be a
wimp because that book still intimidates me today!I'll be honest, it has been a long time since I've opened up Knuth and
actually read the thing. In a true political move, I'll reverse my
stance and be accused of being a waffler
<dies laughing>
I learned programming as a kid with Logo and its turtle graphics.
Me too. I've thought of doing a subset of a Logo implementation as a Ruby Quiz. It's not too tough and pretty darn fun.
James Edward Gray II
On Nov 2, 2006, at 2:39 PM, Tim Pease wrote:
On 11/2/06, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:
On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:49 PM, Tim Pease wrote:
Thanks for linking to this. It's pretty amazing.
Page 11 in particular blew my mind.
On 11/2/06, ChrisH <chris.hulan@gmail.com> wrote:
Skotty wrote:
> Yah David,
>
> Maybe it's just my own lack of comprehension I just don't know why none of
> this is sticking. I've been dabbling with Ruby for a good month now and only
> know the very basics.
>
...Have a look at this research paper
(http://www.cs.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf\).
It offers to explain why some people take to programming like a
fish to water, and others seem to never get the hang of it.
Maybe it will help you decide where you sit.