Hello!
Last month i get too much spam-messages in this list. Now it is
difficult to read it.
Is there any way to stop spam in this list?
Spam is a global problem. If it were easy to stop, it would already be
gone. You are using gmail, however, which has pretty decent spam filters.
Use them.
--Greg
···
On Mon, Apr 07, 2008 at 04:35:04PM +0900, ??? ??? wrote:
Hello!
Last month i get too much spam-messages in this list. Now it is
difficult to read it.Is there any way to stop spam in this list?
I find the attitude of "filter it yourself" to be dismissive and
unhelpful. No, you can't stop spam from being sent, but there do
exist tools to detect and filter spam, such as the one you pointed
out that gmail has. If a spam filter could be applied to the mailing
list so as to prevent the spam messages from being sent out to
everyone in the first place, then that would be preferable, as it
would remove the burden from each individual participant. IOW, having
everyone filter it themselves seems to violate the DRY principle. 
Also, not everyone is using the mailing list. Some of us read and post
to the comp.lang.ruby newsgroup. Google Groups (which I use) doesn't
have a spam filter AFAIK, and neither do most news readers with which
I am familiar. (Killfiles aren't quite the same thing; you have to
know in advance what you're filtering.)
···
On Apr 7, 8:37 am, Gregory Seidman <gsslist+r...@anthropohedron.net> wrote:
Spam is a global problem. If it were easy to stop, it would already be
gone. You are using gmail, however, which has pretty decent spam filters.
Use them.
Karl von Laudermann wrote:
Spam is a global problem. If it were easy to stop, it would already be
gone. You are using gmail, however, which has pretty decent spam filters.
Use them.I find the attitude of "filter it yourself" to be dismissive and
unhelpful. No, you can't stop spam from being sent, but there do
exist tools to detect and filter spam, such as the one you pointed
out that gmail has. If a spam filter could be applied to the mailing
list so as to prevent the spam messages from being sent out to
everyone in the first place, then that would be preferable, as it
would remove the burden from each individual participant. IOW, having
everyone filter it themselves seems to violate the DRY principle.
So, where should the filter work? The news <> mail gateway? How about
the Ruby Forum?
How do you deal with false positives? Does your classification of spam
fit with mine, or everybody elses?
Since spam, at its most basic level, means "unsolicited email" (in this
context), how do you create a filter that pleases everyone, and offends
no-one?
Truly effective filtering can only be done on the client side, since
there are simply too many variables to take into account.
Also, not everyone is using the mailing list. Some of us read and post
to the comp.lang.ruby newsgroup. Google Groups (which I use) doesn't
have a spam filter AFAIK, and neither do most news readers with which
I am familiar. (Killfiles aren't quite the same thing; you have to
know in advance what you're filtering.)
Tough luck. You chose to use a specific interface, so you'll have to
deal with the consequences.
However, Google Groups, as well as the mailing list are opt-in to
receive and send messages. And cutting off the Usenet group seems to be
a bit harsh.
And, in this day and age, somebody using a Usenet client that has no
spam filtering is in need of an upgrade due to security issues, too
(Spam on Usenet is a problem since.. the Eternal September, or so? It
can be expected that a Usenet client uses some sort of spam filtering.
If somebody chooses not to, it is their problem, IMO.)
- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Use uniform input formats.
~ - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher)
···
On Apr 7, 8:37 am, Gregory Seidman <gsslist+r...@anthropohedron.net> > wrote:
> Spam is a global problem. If it were easy to stop, it would already be
> gone. You are using gmail, however, which has pretty decent spam
> filters. Use them.I find the attitude of "filter it yourself" to be dismissive and
unhelpful. No, you can't stop spam from being sent, but there do
exist tools to detect and filter spam, such as the one you pointed
out that gmail has. If a spam filter could be applied to the mailing
list so as to prevent the spam messages from being sent out to
everyone in the first place, then that would be preferable, as it
would remove the burden from each individual participant. IOW, having
everyone filter it themselves seems to violate the DRY principle.
The problem with a global filter that is forced on everyone is false
positives. Either a human being (e.g. a moderator) needs to check for false
positives from time to time, or the filter has to be sufficiently
permissive to make sure all errors are one-sided (i.e. only false
negatives). The moderators of this list are largely hands off, and have
better things to do with their time. That leaves a permissive filter...
which may already be in place! How would you know, since you don't see what
is filtered out?
Even if a global filter is in place and a moderator checks for false
positives, consider the situation where someone starts a really relevant
thread... in Korean. Looks like spam, so it gets filtered out. But wait,
it's a false positive, it's relevant... but the moderator can't read Korean
so it's out. Of course, it really is worthless to everyone who doesn't read
Korean, but the poor Korean user doesn't even see his/her posts to the list
at all, and doesn't know what's going on. He/she doesn't even get a helpful
response from one of the few other people on the list who can read and
write Korean explaining that this is an English-only list and that there is
probably a Korean one out there. Substitute for Korean any other language
the moderator doesn't read.
Another example: are job postings spam? To some people, yes. To others, no.
The global filter better not filter them out. But if I don't want to see
them, it's up to me to do the filtering on my end.
Also, not everyone is using the mailing list. Some of us read and post
to the comp.lang.ruby newsgroup. Google Groups (which I use) doesn't
have a spam filter AFAIK, and neither do most news readers with which
I am familiar. (Killfiles aren't quite the same thing; you have to
know in advance what you're filtering.)
Just as your mail client should be capable of spam filtering, so should
your news reader. Thunderbird may not be an ideal news reader, but I
believe it supports spam filtering. Google Groups allows you to report
messages as spam and applies a (fairly permissive, for reasons mentioned
above) filter.
The point is that there is a small subset of spam that can be 100%
identified as spam without resulting in false positives that cause problems
for some segment of the readers, and for all you know that level of
filtering is already in place. Everyone has to filter at the edges because
each person has a different idea of spam.
--Greg
···
On Mon, Apr 07, 2008 at 10:15:09PM +0900, Karl von Laudermann wrote:
On Apr 7, 8:37 am, Gregory Seidman <gsslist+r...@anthropohedron.net> > wrote:
I'm pretty sure the mailing list does have a spam filter. But of
course not all spam gets caught.
Also if I notice an obvious spam on the Google Group I remove it
manually.
There is only so much that can be done to prevent spam, short of
charging $ per post.
T.
Gregory Seidman <gsslist+ruby@anthropohedron.net> writes:
Even if a global filter is in place and a moderator checks for false
positives, consider the situation where someone starts a really relevant
thread... in Korean. Looks like spam, so it gets filtered out. But wait,
it's a false positive, it's relevant... but the moderator can't read Korean
so it's out. Of course, it really is worthless to everyone who doesn't read
Korean, but the poor Korean user doesn't even see his/her posts to the list
at all, and doesn't know what's going on. He/she doesn't even get a helpful
response from one of the few other people on the list who can read and
write Korean explaining that this is an English-only list and that there is
probably a Korean one out there. Substitute for Korean any other language
the moderator doesn't read.
Actually, this would have a very positive effect. We could just cut
the cable between Korea and the rest of the world, and let Koreans
deal with their spammers. We'll let them back on the Internet when
they're done.
Actually, South Korea is only 4th most spamming country, 1st being USA.
http://www.spamhaus.org/statistics/countries.lasso
You know what to do now
···
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
Actually, South Korea is only 4th most spamming country, 1st being USA.
http://www.spamhaus.org/statistics/countries.lasso
You know what to do now
Get rid of French know-it-alls? 
- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Treat end of file conditions in a uniform manner.
~ - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher)