[EVALUATION] - E01: The Java Failure - May Ruby Helps?

ruby-talk
1

"
A cooperation between Sun Microsystems and IBM&Co. in conjunction with
liberal & high evolutive communities would result in an nearly
unbeatable programming platform.

My evaluation has shown: this is a non achievable goal, as stubborness
and egoism rules - instead of reason and cooperation.

Thus I leave all those ridiculous folks behind, which will continue to
do an excellent job in keeping the very promising JAVA platform far
below the technological level it could be
"

···

-

"
Of course It's a sad day.

Censorship (NetBeans, Eclipse) has forced me to move.

No platform is _really_ open, thus I cannot build on them:

http://lazaridis.com/core/project/open.html
"

-

"I'm sure there is one community out there which will realize immediatly
the benefits of an high-evolutive system. "

-

source: [messages within thread]

[JAVA] [EVALUATION] - The Java Failure (Sorry: The Java(tm) Failure)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.softwaretools/msg/ae6315fda51d50a1

-

During the 6 months evaluation i've extracted several constructs.

"How it should be to become high evolutive"

-

I don't know Ruby.

Basicly I would like to do everything in C++.

But development must go quicker.

-

Possibly it's time to structure Ruby projects in a way similar to
Sun's Java, NetBeans and especially IBM&Co's Eclipse (but of course more
efficient and evolutive):

http://lazaridis.com/case/ide/project/index.html

www.osgi.org and similar standards should (whenever possible) be used.

Companies in the Embedded World should be intrested in an Ruby osgi implementation.

[Note: i've not verified technical and legal applicability]

-

osgi is just a detail.

The goal would be: to make a high competitive andhigh evolutive
programming platform / Rich Client Platform based on Ruby.

-

My question is essentially:

How many of those constructs are already supported by Ruby (and the
surrounding open-source-projects):

http://lazaridis.com/case/stack/index.html

-

I'll be possibly for some time off-line, as the evaluation has brought
me to my financial limits, thus i'm loosing my phone-line in a few hours.

I'll try to communicate via internet-cafe, but cannot promise this.

-

Please notify the people within the relevant Ruby communities about
this thread.

..

--
http://lazaridis.com

2

Hello Ilias,

Welcome to the Ruby language.

Your post tells a tale of a lot of personal frustration and of a lot of
conflicts with people in other open source communities. While I certainly
see what you are talking about in your message (although it is rather
long and requires some in depth reading), I cannot share your vision of
things. I don't think the Java community is entirely bad and the way it
has reacted to you cannot entirely be blamed on them. Wanting to say: You
have a very upfront way of dealing with things that some people might
understand as an offense.

My question is essentially:

How many of those constructs are already supported by Ruby (and the
surrounding open-source-projects):

http://lazaridis.com/case/stack/index.html

and

I don't know Ruby.

Basicly I would like to do everything in C++.

But development must go quicker.

give me mixed feelings about what to answer you. Yes, Ruby possibly
supports a great many of the things you mention, but if it does not, that
would be the time to learn Ruby and build some things yourself. That's
the way it works - you can't demand things to be built. Some of us are in
on this on daytime jobs, but most of us do this for free - so the phrase
'developement must go quicker' is really useless.

Not offering any advice here apart from that, since I don't want to
thread loose another long discussion about how things should be 'run'.

Please be assured of my best intentions,
kaspar

hand manufactured code - www.tua.ch/ruby

3

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
[...]

My question is essentially:

How many of those constructs are already supported by Ruby (and the
surrounding open-source-projects):

http://lazaridis.com/case/stack/index.html

[...]

Can please some community member has the gentleness to give me an answer on this?

The evaluation sequence is a very standard case, thus your answers will be usable to other newcomers, too (e.g. if you create a ruby-real-live-quick-start-document):

http://lazaridis.com/case/stack/index.html#evaluation

..

···

--
http://lazaridis.com

4

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
[...]

My question is essentially:

How many of those constructs are already supported by Ruby (and the
surrounding open-source-projects):

http://lazaridis.com/case/stack/index.html

[...]

From the communities behaviour, I extract the following answer:

"
Ruby is not what you are searching for. It is not capable to replace JAVA and it's large base of libraries and open source system implementations.

The existent Ruby tools cannot produce the defined stack, which essentially describes some form of an coherent open-source MDA (Model Driven Architecture) implementation.

Ruby is for having fun - but not for producing serious large scale distributed applications.

Otherwise the people here would have simply answered: welcome, pick this, this and this, add this and this and your stack is ready.
"

..

···

--
http://lazaridis.com

5

Easy.

HOWTO be Ilias Lazaridis :

"
A cooperation between Sun Microsystems and IBM&Co. in conjunction with
liberal & high evolutive communities would result in an nearly
unbeatable programming platform.

My evaluation has shown:

(affirmation with no backup)

What I want is to takeover the world, please think like me.
Also please take a look at my buzzword generated website.

Thus I leave all those ridiculous folks behind,

(Java bashing)

Because I have a high sense of what a community IS, please only talk
about what I want to hear. Everything that answeres my questions will
be noted as irrelevant.

-

"
Of course It's a sad day.

(censorship notes)

Censorship is ok for me to takeover the world

http://lazaridis.com/core/project/open.html
"

please first read http://goat.cx/

-

"I'm sure there is one community out there which will realize

immediatly

the benefits of an high-evolutive system. "

-

please define high-evolutive

[...]

During the 6 months evaluation i've extracted several constructs.

"How it should be to become high evolutive"

-

please define high-evolutive

I don't know Ruby.

Basicly I would like to do everything in C++.

But development must go quicker.

You could do like me, try to use the community to do the work for
yourself. Language selection is not a matter of taste and needs, but of
how much monkeys uses it.

[...]

Sorry I got tired at that point :stuck_out_tongue:

6

(In response to news:ctsjso$7v6$1@usenet.otenet.gr by Ilias Lazaridis)

[entiry post snipped]

Hello Ilias,

I would like to tell you that we have uncovered your real identity. You are
generated by a bunch of sociologists that are into male dominant behaviour
research.

Or you are just a Turing Test gone very very wrong.

Please do me the favor of answering: My post was trying to cut right trough
the sterility. Please, show some emotion here.

Whatever it is, happy trolling !
kaspar

code manufacture - ruby lab
www.tua.ch/ruby

7

I'm closing this thread.

It's always fascinating to see how a few people can completely ruin the image of a community.

Really diaspointing.

..

···

--
http://lazaridis.com

8

Kaspar Schiess wrote:

I don't know Ruby.

Basicly I would like to do everything in C++.

But development must go quicker.

give me mixed feelings about what to answer you. Yes, Ruby possibly supports a great many of the things you mention, but if it does not, that would be the time to learn Ruby and build some things yourself. That's the way it works - you can't demand things to be built. Some of us are in on this on daytime jobs, but most of us do this for free - so the phrase 'developement must go quicker' is really useless.

Kaspar,

I agree with most of what you say here.

I think however that when he said "development must go quicker" he meant
that his own development must be quicker than he can manage in C++ (hence
the interest in Ruby).

Cheers,
Hal

9

Hmm, much warmer reception than c.l.python

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/fa1a750ec51f7cc4/e0cc9ef1e7f51911?_done=%2Fgroup%2Fcomp.lang.python%3F&_doneTitle=Back+to+topics&_doneTitle=Back&&d#e0cc9ef1e7f51911

10

Quoteing ilias@lazaridis.com, on Mon, Feb 14, 2005 at 02:24:57AM +0900:

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
[...]
>My question is essentially:
>
>How many of those constructs are already supported by Ruby (and the
>surrounding open-source-projects):
>
>http://lazaridis.com/case/stack/index.html
[...]

From the communities behaviour, I extract the following answer:

I would extract this:

You have a project. You need to evaluate tools for your project. Other
people are not going to do this evaluation for you.

If I told you "ruby and its libs will do everything you want", what
would you do then? Believe me, somebody you know nothing about? Start a
major coding effort, based on free advice?

Cheers,
Sam

11

From the communities behaviour, I extract the following answer:

I don't really understand what your question is, so I can't help you.

The way you have random dashes dots and quotation marks in your post
makes me think that you do not take your questions seriously, it looks
like one of those v!&gr@ messages.

Parhaps if you clearly stated what it is you are looking for you might
get a better response. From here, it sounds like you don't know what
you want and you don't want to know what is on offer. It is quite
difficult to try and solve those problems without being you.

Douglas

12

That is probably the most offensive (and painful) image I have seen in a very long time. Yuck.

···

In message <1108556050.691195.18560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "zimba.tm@gmail.com" <zimba.tm@gmail.com> writes

please first read http://goat.cx/

--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html

13

Strangely, I had already been reminded of a story where a distributed
AI spread over the net as a worm; It then started impersonating people
on the net.

So it really made me look twice when he mentioned his "limited processing time".

cheers,
Mark

···

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:48:30 +0900, Kaspar Schiess <eule@space.ch> wrote:

(In response to news:ctsjso$7v6$1@usenet.otenet.gr by Ilias Lazaridis)

[entiry post snipped]

Hello Ilias,

I would like to tell you that we have uncovered your real identity. You are
generated by a bunch of sociologists that are into male dominant behaviour
research.

Or you are just a Turing Test gone very very wrong.

Please do me the favor of answering: My post was trying to cut right trough
the sterility. Please, show some emotion here.

14

Ben Giddings wrote:

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

I'm closing this thread.

No, you're not.

You're right.

I've just reopened it, to answer you.

It will live on forever.

until all usenet archives go down.

It's always fascinating to see how a few people can completely ruin the image of a community.

Really diaspointing.

Actually, I think this will go on to prove how incredibly friendly and helpful the Ruby community is.

"incredibly friendly"
"helpful"

Despite the fact you're an obvious troll, and have been banned from a number of other groups, despite your insulting posts, despite your valiant attempts to start flame wars...

"insulting posts"
"valiant attempts to start flame wars"

there were a lot of people who were friendly, and helpful, and nice to you.

"friendly"
"helpful"
"nice"

I, for one, am amazedand proud that in a discussion of this size,
virtually nobody lost their cool, and only one goatse.cs picture was posted -- and even the follow-ups to that were friendly and fun.

"virtually nobody lost their cool"

Congrats ruby-talk, I'd say you won this one.

And this is the most sad part of all this.

That you (and possibly most others) believe that all this is true [and even if true, an achievement].

···

-

I'm wondering If anyone fo the posters has the courage to see what essentially happened here.

And if anyone has the gentleness to apologize.

Possibly after reviewing this thread again after a few days.

Ben

..

--
http://lazaridis.com

15

I would like to tell you that we have uncovered your real identity.
You are generated by a bunch of sociologists that are into male
dominant behaviour research.

I think it's more along the lines of testing how long it takes for very
benevolent people to snap at thoroughly frustrating blackhole/vampire
people. The problem with testing that in the wild, is that it does have a
chilling effect on *real* benevolent people.

Or you are just a Turing Test gone very very wrong.

I'd say it's more like an acute manic episode: delusions of grandeur,
superiority, and entitlement. But I Am Not A Psychiatrist.

Please do me the favor of answering: My post was trying to cut right trough
the sterility. Please, show some emotion here.

I don't think showing emotion is the key here. Showing some ability to
reason is the key (this is an intellectual forum), although the handling
of emotions has a very damn large impact on the ability to reason and/or
communicate, and so is indirectly key... Anyway I think emotion showed
through his posts and not in a nice way...

That's all said assuming he's not faking, although faking is likely too.

Whatever it is, happy trolling !

happy cynicism !

PS: I have a better web curiousity for you all, more relevant and not
obscene: http://timecube.com/

···

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005, Kaspar Schiess wrote:

_____________________________________________________________________
Mathieu Bouchard -=- Montréal QC Canada -=- http://artengine.ca/matju

16

Kaspar Schiess wrote:

(In response to news:ctsjso$7v6$1@usenet.otenet.gr by Ilias Lazaridis)

[entiry post snipped]

Hello Ilias,

I would like to tell you that we have uncovered your real identity. You are generated by a bunch of sociologists that are into male dominant behaviour research.

My main goals are those which i've announce.

The "male dominant behaviour" [or: male inability to control egoism] is a very intresting and essential topic within IT.

It has a deep impact on system-evolution-speed.

Or you are just a Turing Test gone very very wrong.

I don't like "Turing Tests":

LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/2244ab754a79d242

Please do me the favor of answering: My post was trying to cut right trough the sterility. Please, show some emotion here.

Sorry, I prefere females.

Whatever it is, happy trolling !

Thank's a lot.

kaspar

code manufacture - ruby lab
www.tua.ch/ruby

..

···

--
http://lazaridis.com

17

(In response to news:4202075B.2080206@hypermetrics.com by Hal Fulton)

I think however that when he said "development must go quicker" he meant
that his own development must be quicker than he can manage in C++ (hence
the interest in Ruby).

Seen like this the phrase makes of course sense. I stand corrected.

kaspar

hand manufactured code - www.tua.ch/ruby

18

You should check out comp.lang.java subhierarchy. Real roasting there.

Stephen

···

In message <1107629076.405591.92110@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, gene.tani@gmail.com writes

Hmm, much warmer reception than c.l.python

--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html

19

To be fair, his evaluation form does look like it'd be a useful
document if filled in.

martin

···

gene.tani@gmail.com wrote:

Hmm, much warmer reception than c.l.python

20

Sam Roberts wrote:

Quoteing ilias@lazaridis.com, on Mon, Feb 14, 2005 at 02:24:57AM +0900:

[...]

I would extract this:

You have a project. You need to evaluate tools for your project. Other
people are not going to do this evaluation for you.

If I told you "ruby and its libs will do everything you want", what
would you do then? Believe me, somebody you know nothing about? Start a
major coding effort, based on free advice?

Please do not disrupt the obious context.

I (a newcomer) ask the community about existing systems.

This is really nothing special.

It helps me, it helps the community.

"
Can please some community member has the gentleness to give me an answer on this?

The evaluation sequence is a very standard case, thus your answers will be usable to other newcomers, too (e.g. if you create a ruby-real-live-quick-start-document):

http://lazaridis.com/case/stack/index.html#evaluation
"

..

···

--
http://lazaridis.com