7 Ruby Programming ebook

ruby-talk
21

I wouldn't expect the prices to be reduced for an advanced Western
nation like Germany. I'm curious about the pricing in the third
world.

···

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Michael Schuerig <michael@schuerig.de> wrote:

That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers
have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in
general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often
find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from
amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account.

--
Avdi

Home: http://avdi.org
Developer Blog: http://avdi.org/devblog/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/avdi
Journal: http://avdi.livejournal.com

22

Michael Schuerig wrote:

Rest of the world,
An O'Reilly book costing $45 in the USA costs significantly much
more in Peru; instead of making a straight conversion, think on
monthly minimum wages.

I was under the impression that publishers priced differently in
different markets. Is this not the case?

That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers
have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in
general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often
find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from
amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account.

This may be an artifact of the German Buchpreisbindung.

For our international friends:

Books are a cultural good, and thus not something you should leave to
the market forces, which also means a lower VAT of 7% instead of 19%.
Therefore, books are priced according to page count and type of binding
(hardcovers can be more expensive than softcovers, which in turn can be
more expensive than pocketbooks).

Which means that highly successful books like by Stephen King are as
expensive (or cheap) as the less successful books (like Wolfgang Holbein).

(N.B.: The German book market is thriving, and new talent, German as
well as international, gets published, too.)

However: This only counts for books produced and sold in Germany, and
that aren't damaged (this leads to funny situations, where books get
priced cheaper that only have a black marker going across the pages on
the outside, say the bottom, and which are otherwise fine). Imported
books can be priced as the retailer likes, as they aren't covered by the
Buchpreisbindung.

This makes it unattractive to go to the length of translating a
technical book (most of us developers can speak English anyhow, if only
for professional reasons) and printing a German version of it.

This also means, that the books have to be imported at a cost, and that,
in turn, increases the price for the end-consumer.

And yes, especially with the US Dollar being as weak as it is, importing
a book from the US is cheaper (especially if you manage to stay below
the customs duty threshold of 5 Euros: Then it is only a trip to customs
to pick up the books).

Also, Tyler Cowen touched on this subject in a recent blog post:
<http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2008/05/why-are-books-s.html&gt;

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

Use recursive procedures for recursively-defined data structures.
~ - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher)

···

On Thursday 22 May 2008, Avdi Grimm wrote:

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Camilo <camilor@gmail.com> wrote:

23

Michael Schuerig wrote:

That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers
have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in
general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often
find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from
amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account.

When I was in India last year I picked up a copy of _Design Patterns_ that
was 640rp (about 16USD). The same book (not the same quality of paper) is
99USD. The bookstores there were loaded with new, legal printings of
technical books, in English, but are marked as "LPE" (Low Price Edition).
The book says:

"This edition is manufactured in India and is authorized for sale only in
India, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lank and the Maldives."

···

--
Darryl L. Pierce <mcpierce@gmail.com>
http://mcpierce.multiply.com/
"Bury me next to my wife. Nothing too fancy, though..." - Ulysses S. Grant
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

24

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Michael W. Ryder

Where are you getting your $50 figure? Sending a priority mail flat rate
envelope is about $13 for an item weighing up to 4 pounds. Larger items
cost more of course, but a lot of books should fit in that rate. By the way,
that rate is about the same we pay . If you are curious about the shipping
costs go to usps.com and select shipping.

I doubt 7 ruby books enters in an envelope but anyway...

I don't know if there is anyone
in this group that would do this in this case but it is something to keep in
mind.

Get real, thousands if not millions of devs need those books, do you
think it would be possible to find thousands or millions of westerners
to send used copy for free? Why should we get out of our way anyway to
respect US copyright laws when it's obvious that the US doesn't give a
damn about other countries laws... Anyway this is off topic so I'll
stop here for this thread, let's get back to ruby hacking :slight_smile:

25

I am hoping that every @$$hole that attempts to download (AKA STEAL)
one of these PDF's gets a nice piece of malware, which is highly
likely.

Your integrity is your most valuable possession,
and the best part is that no one can take it from you.
To loose it, you must give it away.
TW Scannell

···

On May 16, 5:59 am, Dave Thomas <d...@pragprog.com> wrote:

On May 16, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Pablo Q. wrote:

> I'm not in the "first world" (I'm from latino america), the
> infrastructure
> for this king of persecution don't exist. (I know that in Germany in
> different).

Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this
general lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to
economic growth in the region.

Dave

26

Dave Thomas wrote:

I'm not in the "first world" (I'm from latino america), the
infrastructure
for this king of persecution don't exist. (I know that in Germany in
different).

Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this
general lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to
economic growth in the region.

The entertainment industry is slowly but surely learning that lesson.
EA, for example, is not publishing games in Brazil anymore.

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

~ - You know you've been hacking too long when...
...you're doing laundry, and you think: touch * <or> make clean

···

On May 16, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Pablo Q. wrote:

27

Avdi Grimm wrote:

I wouldn't expect the prices to be reduced for an advanced Western
nation like Germany. I'm curious about the pricing in the third
world.

I noted this in my other email, but you might miss that, so:
<http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2008/05/why-are-books-s.html&gt;

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

10 years old is a good age to get stuck at.

28

As you explain yourself, it does not apply to non-german books.

Michael

···

On Thursday 22 May 2008, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

This may be an artifact of the German Buchpreisbindung.

--
Michael Schuerig
mailto:michael@schuerig.de
Michael Schürig | Sentenced to making sense

29

The non respect of copyrights is not what's limiting Latin America
growth, believe me (or google for it) they have way worse problems. I
know that the US is trying to push for DMCA-like and software patents
to other Latin American countries though the TLC and NAFTA but those
won't help at all if not make the situation worse.

···

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Dave Thomas <dave@pragprog.com> wrote:

Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this general
lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to economic growth in
the region.

30

Patrick Aljord wrote:

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Michael W. Ryder

Where are you getting your $50 figure? Sending a priority mail flat rate
envelope is about $13 for an item weighing up to 4 pounds. Larger items
cost more of course, but a lot of books should fit in that rate. By the way,
that rate is about the same we pay . If you are curious about the shipping
costs go to usps.com and select shipping.

I doubt 7 ruby books enters in an envelope but anyway...

I don't know if there is anyone
in this group that would do this in this case but it is something to keep in
mind.

Get real, thousands if not millions of devs need those books, do you
think it would be possible to find thousands or millions of westerners
to send used copy for free? Why should we get out of our way anyway to
respect US copyright laws when it's obvious that the US doesn't give a
damn about other countries laws... Anyway this is off topic so I'll
stop here for this thread, let's get back to ruby hacking :slight_smile:

Its this attitude that prevents me and probably others from helping. No, we can't send everyone in the world that would like a free book a copy of our used ones, but that doesn't stop us from helping when we can. Your post reminds me of a news article I just read about Myanmar. They are complaining that they aren't receiving enough "free money" for the cyclone victims after they told the world to leave them alone.

31

I really appreciate this, and other ways of getting the same books cheaper.
I buy a lot of books and I think it is relatively expensive in Africa
(but I suppose
mostly due to transport costs).

Cheaper (non-DRM) PDF versions and 2nd-hand books (abebooks.com) are
a real treat for me.

Les

···

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Darryl L. Pierce <mcpierce@gmail.com> wrote:

Michael Schuerig wrote:

That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers
have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in
general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often
find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from
amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account.

When I was in India last year I picked up a copy of _Design Patterns_ that
was 640rp (about 16USD). The same book (not the same quality of paper) is
99USD. The bookstores there were loaded with new, legal printings of
technical books, in English, but are marked as "LPE" (Low Price Edition).
The book says:

"This edition is manufactured in India and is authorized for sale only in
India, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lank and the Maldives."

32

I know why you are so angry.

http://groups.google.com/group/cowpu/browse_thread/thread/e0ed5165cd47b06e/200731143675492b

Go ahead I say, buy whatever you wants. I 'm a linux user, so I don't think
that I will have problem with malware stuffs!

···

2008/5/16 Ruby Freak <twscannell@gmail.com>:

On May 16, 5:59 am, Dave Thomas <d...@pragprog.com> wrote:
> On May 16, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Pablo Q. wrote:
>
> > I'm not in the "first world" (I'm from latino america), the
> > infrastructure
> > for this king of persecution don't exist. (I know that in Germany in
> > different).
>
> Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this
> general lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to
> economic growth in the region.
>
> Dave

I am hoping that every @$$hole that attempts to download (AKA STEAL)
one of these PDF's gets a nice piece of malware, which is highly
likely.

Your integrity is your most valuable possession,
and the best part is that no one can take it from you.
To loose it, you must give it away.
TW Scannell

--
Ing. Pablo Andrés Quirós Solís
Tel (506) 833-7656

33

It hurts countries internally, too. Without effective property rights, it's very hard for people to raise capital (as you can't use assets as collateral). And without an efficient capital market, two things happen. First, economic progress is slowed dramatically, as no one wants to invest. Second, much of the economy moves underground, which in the long term builds crime and hinders mobility. de Soto's book is a fascinating read.

Dave

···

On May 16, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

> Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this
> general lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to
> economic growth in the region.

The entertainment industry is slowly but surely learning that lesson.
EA, for example, is not publishing games in Brazil anymore.

34

Pablo Q. wrote:

I know why you are so angry.

http://groups.google.com/group/cowpu/browse_thread/thread/e0ed5165cd47b06e/200731143675492b

Go ahead I say, buy whatever you wants. I 'm a linux user, so I don't

think

that I will have problem with malware stuffs!

Yeah, absolutely no rootkits available for Linux.. Oh, wait..

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

Use the fundamental control flow constructs.
~ - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher)

35

Dave Thomas wrote:

It hurts countries internally, too. Without effective property rights,
it's very hard for people to raise capital (as you can't use assets as
collateral). And without an efficient capital market, two things happen.
First, economic progress is slowed dramatically, as no one wants to
invest. Second, much of the economy moves underground, which in the long
term builds crime and hinders mobility. de Soto's book is a fascinating
read.

Yep. And there is no easy way out of that vicious circle, either.

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

Youth is a period of missed opportunities without the glory of knowing what
~ was missed.
~ -- Cyril Connolly, "Journal and Memoir" 1983

36

Pablo,
It's amusing that the thread you referenced involves "Honest" members
of Users Group receiving free books from the publisher in trade for
providing reviews. I have no reason to be angry about that.
You see, there are benefits to having integrity.

Good luck to you.

···

On May 16, 8:58 am, "Pablo Q." <paqs140...@gmail.com> wrote:

I know why you are so angry.

http://groups.google.com/group/cowpu/browse_thread/thread/e0ed5165cd4\.\.\.

Go ahead I say, buy whatever you wants. I 'm a linux user, so I don't think
that I will have problem with malware stuffs!

37

Ruby Freak wrote:

I know why you are so angry.

http://groups.google.com/group/cowpu/browse_thread/thread/e0ed5165cd4\.\.\.

Go ahead I say, buy whatever you wants. I 'm a linux user, so I don't think
that I will have problem with malware stuffs!

Pablo,
It's amusing that the thread you referenced involves "Honest" members
of Users Group receiving free books from the publisher in trade for
providing reviews. I have no reason to be angry about that.
You see, there are benefits to having integrity.

Good luck to you.

You keep pandering to the best corporate insterests, that sure is
"integrity". Keep making tha fat cats fatter when dealing with knowledge
as if it was a merchandise and not a right.

The internet offers a voice and power to those who can't afford
capitalist imposed quotas. Or do you feel that only US and Europe and
entitled to knowledge because they cas easily throw away X amount of
dollars while other people base their economy working in factories for
you to wear snickers and cool t-shirts and eat tropical fruits and
coffee?

Maybe you are one of those that just KNOWS that the poor are poor
because they are incompetent and lazy? Tell you what, you wake up from
your comfortable living and then judge others in not so comfortable
situations for trying to learn by downloading a goddamn book, ok? no?

···

On May 16, 8:58 am, "Pablo Q." <paqs140...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

38

As23 Mega wrote:

You keep pandering to the best corporate insterests, that sure is
"integrity". Keep making tha fat cats fatter when dealing with knowledge
as if it was a merchandise and not a right.

It *is* a merchandise. TANSTAFL. People invested their time and effort
in it, and that deserves compensation.

The internet offers a voice and power to those who can't afford
capitalist imposed quotas. Or do you feel that only US and Europe and
entitled to knowledge because they cas easily throw away X amount of
dollars while other people base their economy working in factories for
you to wear snickers and cool t-shirts and eat tropical fruits and
coffee?

Bullshit. Everybody is free to buy the goods. If they can't afford it:
Tough luck. I can't afford a Ferrari, yet I'm not stealing one.

You know, that's what is called 'integrity'. 'Honor'. 'Fairness'.

Oh, and I'm offering you the once in a lifetime chance of putting your
money where your mouth is: Send me a cheque over all your money, so I
can attain the standard of living I feel entitled to. Deal?

(What, you think the poor are only limited to Africa and Latin America?
I can't afford to buy all the books I want, either. Yet I am not
defrauding others of their work. Funny how that works.)

Maybe you are one of those that just KNOWS that the poor are poor
because they are incompetent and lazy?

Zimbabwe, Cuba, North Korea.. The leaders creating the poverty sure seem
incompetent.

Tell you what, you wake up from
your comfortable living and then judge others in not so comfortable
situations for trying to learn by downloading a goddamn book, ok? no?

Tell you what: Visit an Econ 101 course, and please, please read The
Capital, too, not just the Communist Manifesto, ok? no?

Also: There are absolutely free, no strings attached alternatives to
defrauding people like Dave Thomas, or Matz, or Peter Cooper, which are
even regularly advertised on this very mailing list.

Say, do you defraud the plumber, too who fixes your sink? Your
electrician? The mechanic fixing your car? The bus driver? The taxi driver?

Before you start trolling, at least do a *little* research. This is
insulting to the list's members.

- --
Phillip Gawlowski
Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

~ I imagine bugs and girls have a dim perception that nature played a
cruel trick on them, but they lack the intelligence to really comprehend
the magnitude of it. -- Calvin

39

Knowledge is not merchandise. When you buy a book, you're paying the author for his or her time organizing that knowledge for you—you're paying for a service. If you don't want to pay for that service, you're free to use the available knowledge to learn just the same way the original author did. You can read the source code, write the thousands of lines of code, read the web, email experts, put stuff out for review, and so on. For most people, the money spent on a book repays the opportunity cost of the time they'd otherwise spent gathering, filtering and organizing the knowledge for themselves. If that equation doesn't work in particular circumstances, then the source knowledge is still there. But stealing the book is not defeating a capitalist machine. It's simply a disincentive for that author to put the effort in to creating another book.

Dave

···

On May 16, 2008, at 12:51 PM, As23 Mega wrote:

You keep pandering to the best corporate insterests, that sure is
"integrity". Keep making tha fat cats fatter when dealing with knowledge
as if it was a merchandise and not a right.

40

Please folks. This is Ruby Talk.

Can we get back to Ruby now?

James Edward Gray II