Is anyone working on either:
(OR)
Without clarification, I can’t use Ruby. What a shame; it would have been a
great language . . .
(hint: see the Python license at http://www.python.org) 
What’s wrong with Ruby’s license?
What would you like to do with Ruby which the present license doesn’t allow?
On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 02:12:49PM +0900, Default User wrote:
Is anyone working on either:
- cleaning up the Ruby license, so users at least know CLEARLY what they
can and can’t do with Ruby.(OR)
- re-code the offending parts of the language so ownership and useage
rights are CLEAR.Without clarification, I can’t use Ruby. What a shame; it would have been a
great language . . .(hint: see the Python license at http://www.python.org)
–
Daniel Carrera, Math PhD student at UMD. PGP KeyID: 9AF77A88
.-“~~~”-.
/ O O \ ATTENTION ALL PASCAL USERS:
: s :
\ _/ / To commemorate the anniversary of Blaise Pascal’s
`-._.-’ birth (today) all your programs will run at half speed.
Who are you?
Is anyone working on either:
- cleaning up the Ruby license, so users at least know CLEARLY what
they
can and can’t do with Ruby.
What do you want to do?
(OR)
- re-code the offending parts of the language so ownership and useage
rights are CLEAR.
Have you looked at the LEGAL and COPYING files included with the Ruby
distribution? Note that one portion of Ruby is licensed under the LGPL
(regular expressions), but a separate implementation (called onigurama)
is being written that will have a different license. All of the other
portions are licensed under BSD style licenses, Artistic style licenses
or Weirdo style licenses (like ‘beer-ware’) that are the functional
equivalent of an Artistic style license.
Without clarification, I can’t use Ruby.
That’s regrettable. If reviewing the license documents is not
sufficient for you, have you considered hiring a lawyer to review the
licenses in light of what you want to do? I’ve read the Python license
and it does not strike me as being any clearer or more obtuse than the
Ruby license. If you have a substantial sum of money riding on the
issue, you should hire a lawyer to review any license for any language
or software tool.
What a shame; it would have been a
great language . . .
It is, of course, a great language.
Regards,
Mark Wilson
On Friday, September 5, 2003, at 01:12 AM, Default User wrote:
The user ‘vcharlie@mindspring.com’ is an established troll.
I would suggest not posting any responses to the obviously inflammatory
original message.
If one does a Google groups search on this particular email address,
vcharlie@mindspring.com, you will find newsgroup postings such as the
following:
From: anonymous (vcharlie@mindspring.com)
Subject: Re: Open Watcom
View: Complete Thread (26 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: lucky.openbsd.misc
Date: 2003-02-08 21:42:11 PST
Hey guys, lets get to the point.
AMERCANS ARE FASCIST SHITHEAD WAR-PIG ASSHOLES WHO SUCK GREEN DONKEY
DICKS!!!
Fuck you if you disagree.
BTW:
Berlin, 1945.
Washington, D.C. 2003.
<…>
Tiny Google URL to the above post: http://tinyurl.com/mben
Peace.
-----Original Message-----
From: Default User [mailto:vcharlie@mindspring.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:13 PM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Ruby license makes it unuseable ! !Is anyone working on either:
- cleaning up the Ruby license, so users at least know CLEARLY what they
can and can’t do with Ruby.(OR)
- re-code the offending parts of the language so ownership and useage
rights are CLEAR.Without clarification, I can’t use Ruby. What a shame; it would have been
a
great language . . .(hint: see the Python license at http://www.python.org)
There is nothing in the Ruby licence which prohibits use of the
interpreter for any reason. The Ruby licence specifically covers what can be
done with the source. In fact, the Ruby licence is very liberal – if a bit
vague.
There are better licences than the Python licence, at that.
All that said, I think that working on a better licence is a “not bad” plan.
Perhaps using the Artistic licence that is approved by the OSI, rather than
creating “yet another licence.”
-austin
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:12:49 +0900, Default User wrote:
- cleaning up the Ruby license, so users at least know CLEARLY what
they can and can’t do with Ruby.
–
austin ziegler * austin@halostatue.ca * Toronto, ON, Canada
software designer * pragmatic programmer * 2003.09.05
* 13.39.59
Default User graced us by uttering:
No real name.
Is anyone working on either:
- cleaning up the Ruby license, so users at least know
CLEARLY what they can and can’t do with Ruby.(OR)
- re-code the offending parts of the language so ownership
and useage rights are CLEAR.
Vague allusion(s) to a problem the user has without description.
Without clarification, I can’t use Ruby. What a shame; it
would have been a great language . . .
I recall a very similar argument about this last month. The
Pythonista must not be very adept at searching the archives.
(hint: see the Python license at http://www.python.org)
And the crowning touch to make this trollbait.
puts “That’s all for today, folks!” unless tim.has_time()
That’s all for today, folks!
Tim Hammerquist
–
You know what killed off the dinosaurs, Whateley? We did. In one barbecue.
– Cthulhu, “I Cthulhu (or What’s a Tentacle-Faced Thing like
Me Doing in a Sunken City like This?)” by Neil Gaiman
Mark Wilson wrote:
On Friday, September 5, 2003, at 01:12 AM, Default User wrote:
Who are you?
Is anyone working on either:
- cleaning up the Ruby license, so users at least know CLEARLY what
they
can and can’t do with Ruby.
Can you say T-R-O-L-L ??
the original post regarding ruby’s license is clearly a trolls post (i never
heard anyone complaining about artistic and bsd licenses…),
but i disqualify him not because of following posting:
From: anonymous (vcharlie@mindspring.com)
Subject: Re: Open Watcom
View: Complete Thread (26 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: lucky.openbsd.misc
Date: 2003-02-08 21:42:11 PSTHey guys, lets get to the point.
AMERCANS ARE FASCIST SHITHEAD WAR-PIG ASSHOLES WHO SUCK GREEN DONKEY
DICKS!!!Fuck you if you disagree.
BTW:
Berlin, 1945.
Washington, D.C. 2003.
this is certainly not expressed as political correct, as it should, but he
has a point.
this is surely a reaction on the stop of funding by darpa.
not every american is a fascist, but the government falls into this category
(as does italian government, btw).
Peace.
absolutly, but not the bush-way 
~ibotty
Peace. For the Ruby Talk mailing list.
In an open system, everything counts, even small things.
I’m sorry I hit a nerve with my example as I certainly didn’t mean to. And I
certainly didn’t intend to engender a political discussion
I chose an example which I found to be juvenile, insulting, and
counterproductive to any rational discussion, features that typically
identify trolls.
Next time I will be more careful in adding additional context and perhaps
posting additional examples.
Kindly,
–ms
-----Original Message-----
From: ibotty [mailto:me@ibotty.net]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 12:49 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: Ruby license makes it unuseable ! ! [troll alert]the original post regarding ruby’s license is clearly a trolls post (i
never
heard anyone complaining about artistic and bsd licenses…),
but i disqualify him not because of following posting:From: anonymous (vcharlie@mindspring.com)
Subject: Re: Open Watcom
View: Complete Thread (26 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: lucky.openbsd.misc
Date: 2003-02-08 21:42:11 PSTHey guys, lets get to the point.
AMERCANS ARE FASCIST SHITHEAD WAR-PIG ASSHOLES WHO SUCK GREEN DONKEY
DICKS!!!Fuck you if you disagree.
BTW:
Berlin, 1945.
Washington, D.C. 2003.
this is certainly not expressed as political correct, as it should, but he
has a point.
this is surely a reaction on the stop of funding by darpa.
not every american is a fascist, but the government falls into this
category
(as does italian government, btw).Peace.
absolutly, but not the bush-way
~ibotty
ibotty wrote:
From: anonymous (vcharlie@mindspring.com)
Subject: Re: Open Watcom
View: Complete Thread (26 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: lucky.openbsd.misc
Date: 2003-02-08 21:42:11 PST
[SNIP]
this is surely a reaction on the stop of funding by darpa.
bzzzt Wrong!
Look at the subject. Then look at the date.
That post has nothing to do with DARPA pulling OpenBSD’s funding.
Peace.
absolutly, but not the bush-way
-1, Flamebait
~ibotty
-Kent
Hello ibotty,
Friday, September 5, 2003, 8:49:08 AM, you wrote:
the original post regarding ruby’s license is clearly a trolls post (i never
heard anyone complaining about artistic and bsd licenses…),
For example: R. Stallman and other religous fighters.
–
Best regards,
Lothar mailto:mailinglists@scriptolutions.com
“Terry” prosys@ottomate.biz wrote in message
news:ea04ebda149bac365644cbf058eae871@news.teranews.com…
Mark Wilson wrote:
Who are you?
Is anyone working on either:
- cleaning up the Ruby license, so users at least know CLEARLY what
they
can and can’t do with Ruby.Can you say T-R-O-L-L ??
T-R-O
Oh hell, he is just an I-D-I-O-T!
On Friday, September 5, 2003, at 01:12 AM, Default User wrote:
this is surely a reaction on the stop of funding by darpa.
bzzzt Wrong!
Look at the subject. Then look at the date.
That post has nothing to do with DARPA pulling OpenBSD’s funding.
hell, this is clearly a case in which one should investigate first, post
later.
than, this is only an unmotivated policical incorrect criticism on
us-foreign politics.
Peace.
absolutly, but not the bush-way
-1, Flamebait
you are right.
~ibotty
the original post regarding ruby’s license is clearly a trolls post (i
never heard anyone complaining about artistic and bsd licenses…),For example: R. Stallman and other religous fighters.
i meant complaining, that they cannot use something with this license.
well, they do also complain, but still use it (see e.g.: perl, used by rms).
~ibotty
On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 06:48:13PM +0900, Lothar Scholz wrote:
Hello ibotty,
Friday, September 5, 2003, 8:49:08 AM, you wrote:
the original post regarding ruby’s license is clearly a trolls post (i never
heard anyone complaining about artistic and bsd licenses…),For example: R. Stallman and other religous fighters.
–
Daniel Carrera, Math PhD student at UMD. PGP KeyID: 9AF77A88
.-“~~~”-.
/ O O \ ATTENTION ALL PASCAL USERS:
: s :
\ _/ / To commemorate the anniversary of Blaise Pascal’s
`-._.-’ birth (today) all your programs will run at half speed.
Daniel Carrera dcarrera@math.umd.edu writes:
- I don’t like it when people use the word religious the way you just
did. The word religious does not mean “dogmatic” or anything of the
sort.
Scrupulously faithful or exact; strict.
Thus, Indianlike, Religious in my error, I adore The sun, that looks upon his worshiper. --Shak.
HTH,
~Tim
Apologies for not paying attention much to the countless previous
threads related to web application ruby technologies, but I haven’t
needed any of them… until now.
I’m going to be writing a web application, and I’m considering using
Ruby. I was wondering if someone could give a quick, terse list of
the popular packages out there for this sort of work.
Were I doing this in Java (my profession, BTW), I’d use an app
server, jdbc to a database, with (likely) struts/jsp on the front
end. What I’m looking for is [however rough] ruby equivalents to
that. By “equivalent”, I mean from a problem solving context, not
necessarily a technological equivalent.
I can do the footwork of researching the things; I’m not looking for
that necessarily, but rather just a starting point of things to check
out.
As part of this application will be some sort of shopping cart
functionality, any recommendations there as well as CGI speedup
things (mod_ruby, et. al.) would be appreciated as well.
Again, sorry for the vagueness of this… criticism on how to better
structure my question is ALSO welcome.
Thanks,
Michael
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
Michael Campbell wrote:
Apologies for not paying attention much to the countless previous
threads related to web application ruby technologies, but I haven’t
needed any of them… until now.I’m going to be writing a web application, and I’m considering using
Ruby. I was wondering if someone could give a quick, terse list of
the popular packages out there for this sort of work.Were I doing this in Java (my profession, BTW), I’d use an app
server, jdbc to a database, with (likely) struts/jsp on the front
end. What I’m looking for is [however rough] ruby equivalents to
that. By “equivalent”, I mean from a problem solving context, not
necessarily a technological equivalent.I can do the footwork of researching the things; I’m not looking for
that necessarily, but rather just a starting point of things to check
out.As part of this application will be some sort of shopping cart
functionality, any recommendations there as well as CGI speedup
things (mod_ruby, et. al.) would be appreciated as well.Again, sorry for the vagueness of this… criticism on how to better
structure my question is ALSO welcome.Thanks,
The server part is up in the air; depends what you want to do. You
could use mod_ruby and Apache as your server, you could try webrick or
you could write a Java extension to embed the Ruby engine and continue
to use Java as your framework and call into Ruby to do the work (for
fast prototyping). Or you can, as I am planning on doing in the
not-too-distant-future here, putting together your own framework server
from libwww and embedding the engine.
Either way:
Look around RAA (http://raa.ruby-lang.org/) for SQL engines. I
personally tend to use ruby-dbi
(http://raa.ruby-lang.org/list.rhtml?name=ruby-dbi) to talk directly to
MySQL databases.
For producing HTML output, I prefer templates over embedding my Ruby
code ASP-style ala eRuby. Instead of eRuby, I use PageTemplate and push
my variables to a template, then CGI.print the final HTML back to
Apache. Works pretty well.
Sean O'Dell
I’d suggest CGIKit, filled with little ruby/dbi ,apache &
mod_ruby/fastCGI for better performance.
The only reason I’m doing this is that I just downloaded CGIKit and it
seems quite impressive to me
il Sat, 6 Sep 2003 02:10:38 +0900, Michael Campbell michael_s_campbell@yahoo.com ha scritto::
Were I doing this in Java (my profession, BTW), I’d use an app
server, jdbc to a database, with (likely) struts/jsp on the front
end. What I’m looking for is [however rough] ruby equivalents to
that. By “equivalent”, I mean from a problem solving context, not
necessarily a technological equivalent.
I’d suggest CGIKit, filled with little ruby/dbi ,apache &
mod_ruby/fastCGI for better performance.
Maybe I missed something (I hope so), but the mod_ruby documentation leads me
to believe that someone attempting to use mod_ruby gives the programmer
access to “a whole bunch of raw apache stuff”, but there is not yet a higher
framework that make typical web-request handling trivial. Writing a CGI
application is trivial, because I can use the CGI module to handle everything
like header parsing and query string decoding.
Please tell me that I missed something and that I can convert my CGI bits into
mod_ruby in just a few minutes.
Thanks
David