Yeah, I know the syndrome. My mega app (something like
1600 Java classes) finally resolved down to about 3
embedded C objects (for things like CRC checking which
weren't readily available in Ruby at the time - going
to put my CRC stuff up on RubyForge sometime btw once
I have removed all my idiosyncratic and/or proprietary
stuff from it) and a handful of Ruby support classes
and modules(maybe 15 or so) when I finally summoned up
the courage to get rid of the Java bloat. Maintenance,
once a nightmare, is frankly a trivial matter now. The
problem with Java is you just can't see the wood from
the trees, which is //not// the case with Ruby.
--- Alex the_mindstorm Popescu
···
<the_mindstorm@evolva.ro> wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Johan Toki Persson
[mailto:tokikenshi@gmail.com]
>Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:49 AM
>To: ruby-talk ML
>Subject: Re: Ruby and IDE
>
>We're not a craving bunch. Hacking in such a
wonderful
>language is good enough. 
No seriously, I dont't
have the
>slightest. I guess the average rubyist are quite
satisfied
>with either vim or emacs.
>
>
My current project (Java) size: aprox.2000 classes.
I don't think this is nice manageable in a vim
environment (and remember I've been there ;-)).
I have seen this "vim or emacs is enough behavior",
and I interpret it much like a: "hey if you are
not an elite to use vim/emacs, you have not the
right to use xxx" (programming language for elites),
and this is _completely_ wrong. Imo this support is
mandatory (I can give you lots of examples about
nice technologies/ideas that remained little - maybe
even are dead now - because of the lack of tool
support).
I really believe (and I am sure almost all of you
accept this 
) that an IDE is helping a lot the
development of real world projects and it brings a
lot of efficiency to experienced developers, but
is also helping beginners to become proficient.
Again, I will ask you to forgive my vehement
position and I want to underline that I am not
writing
this to start flames.
[Answer to Lothar:]
I am really enjoying Arachno and I intent to buy a
license soon (even if .... - this will be a
personal mail ;-).
I am not saying that those features are easy/hard to
support, as I am not an expert in programming
languages and also not an IDE guru developer. All I
know is that even if the effort is big, the
reward will be bigger. I haven't mentioned features
that are not available for example in Smalltalk.
Afaik Ruby is around since 2000, so the 5 years are
gone ;-).
[Answer to Richard:]
- tried that too. Unfortunately, its offerings are
the same as in other specified tools.
From: Steve Callaway [mailto:sjc2000_uk@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 11:45 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: Ruby and IDE
now. The problem with Java is you just can't see the wood from
the trees, which is //not// the case with Ruby.
I will take this as a joke for the moment ;-). Even at a scale of 1:20 lines, managing 20k lines of
code is not so easy. And refusing to address the problem because we find different workarounds is
not a solution (my 2c).
The feeling is that for my playground I will probably be able to use one of the enumerated
environment. But I surely can guarantee that convincing a company to go for development with Ruby
will be 'daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn' hard.
cheers,
--:alex |.::the_mindstorm::.|
···
-----Original Message-----
--- Alex the_mindstorm Popescu
<the_mindstorm@evolva.ro> wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Johan Toki Persson
[mailto:tokikenshi@gmail.com]
>Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:49 AM
>To: ruby-talk ML
>Subject: Re: Ruby and IDE
>
>We're not a craving bunch. Hacking in such a
wonderful
>language is good enough. No seriously, I dont't
have the
>slightest. I guess the average rubyist are quite
satisfied
>with either vim or emacs.
>
>
My current project (Java) size: aprox.2000 classes.
I don't think this is nice manageable in a vim environment (and
remember I've been there ;-)).
I have seen this "vim or emacs is enough behavior", and I
interpret it
much like a: "hey if you are not an elite to use vim/emacs, you have
not the right to use xxx" (programming language for elites),
and this
is _completely_ wrong. Imo this support is mandatory (I can give you
lots of examples about nice technologies/ideas that remained
little -
maybe even are dead now - because of the lack of tool support).
I really believe (and I am sure almost all of you accept this )
that an IDE is helping a lot the development of real world projects
and it brings a lot of efficiency to experienced developers, but is
also helping beginners to become proficient.
Again, I will ask you to forgive my vehement position and I want to
underline that I am not writing this to start flames.
[Answer to Lothar:]
I am really enjoying Arachno and I intent to buy a license
soon (even
if .... - this will be a personal mail ;-).
I am not saying that those features are easy/hard to
support, as I am
not an expert in programming languages and also not an IDE guru
developer. All I know is that even if the effort is big, the reward
will be bigger. I haven't mentioned features that are not available
for example in Smalltalk.
Afaik Ruby is around since 2000, so the 5 years are gone ;-).
[Answer to Richard:]
- tried that too. Unfortunately, its offerings are the same as in
other specified tools.