Ruby Advocacy/Documentation/Sponsorship?

ruby-talk
1

Having discovered Ruby recently and falling in love with it, I'm wondering if there are any REMAINING reasons why Ruby isn't as widespread as some of the older (less-productive) scripting languages.

Is there a perception that Ruby still lacks decent documentation?
Does lack of corporate backing hurt more than it helps?
Should RubyForge and RAA be merged into a single archive with an interface similar to CPAN?
Is there a Ruby advocacy group?

I'm assuming the lack of English documentation was the major barrier before 2002. IMHO, documentation now exists but they are scattered or hard for newcomers to find (ie compared to Perl). A Ruby search engine covering multiple websites would be really nice, starting with these docs (maybe we can get a corporate sponsor to host the search engine):

1. RUBY BOOKS/GUIDES
http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/UsersGuide/rg/index.html
http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/
http://poignantguide.net/ruby/

2. RUBY CLASS/API REFERENCE
http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib/
http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/rdoc/1.9/
http://www.kitebird.com/articles/ruby-dbi.html

3. RUBY CODE SNIPPETS
http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_ruby/t1.html
http://www.rubygarden.org/ruby?CodingInRuby
http://yagni.com/rosetta-stone/index.php

4. RUBY AND C/C++ INTEGRATION
http://www.zenspider.com/ZSS/Products/RubyInline/
http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/Ruby.html

5. MOD_RUBY+ERUBY, CGIKIT, ETC.
http://modruby.net/doc/
http://www.rubydoc.org/books/modruby/book1.htm
http://www.spice-of-life.net/cgikit/en/userguide/CGIKitUserGuide.html

....damn gotta run. At a minimum, maybe Ruby nuby's will hit this post in Google and find it useful. Maybe someone else more qualified can hit on the other topics like advocacy, etc.

2

Randy Lawrence wrote:

Having discovered Ruby recently and falling in love with it, I'm wondering if there are any REMAINING reasons why Ruby isn't as widespread as some of the older (less-productive) scripting languages.

Is there a perception that Ruby still lacks decent documentation?

Yes, because it does.

Does lack of corporate backing hurt more than it helps?

Depends, but having a Big Name behind Ruby would likely help.

Should RubyForge and RAA be merged into a single archive with an interface similar to CPAN?

Something along those lines would be a good thing. At the least, hosting an project on RubyForge should automatically add an entry to the RAA.

Is there a Ruby advocacy group?

You're soaking in it!

I'm assuming the lack of English documentation was the major barrier before 2002. IMHO, documentation now exists but they are scattered or hard for newcomers to find (ie compared to Perl). A Ruby search engine covering multiple websites would be really nice, starting with these docs (maybe we can get a corporate sponsor to host the search engine):

Well, ruby-doc.org is or should be that search engine, albeit with a good deal of human intervention. When I learn of a new Ruby resource, I try to get it listed on ruby-doc.org.

However, the navigation of the site leaves much to be desired, so I've been redesigning the look and feel as well as the server code. Ideally, anything document, video, mp3, code sample, isbn, wtc related to Ruby should be locatable on ruby-doc.org, and in a variety of ways.

One should be able to query or drill down, for example, to find code samples on Web development that interface with C-based libraries, or videos that mention database programing, or tutorials for newbies with a functional language background.

1. RUBY BOOKS/GUIDES

2. RUBY CLASS/API REFERENCE

3. RUBY CODE SNIPPETS

4. RUBY AND C/C++ INTEGRATION

5. MOD_RUBY+ERUBY, CGIKIT, ETC.

Thanks for the list.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to organize/classify Ruby documentation (including tutorials, reference works, videos, blogs, wikis, translations, and so on). Some of your list matches what I've been working on, some are good additions.

Questions:
  * What should people expect to find at www.ruby-doc.org?

  * How should it behave?

  * What goes on the front page?

My basic belief is that the site need not host much; it *could*, but that presents logistical and admin issues. However, one should be able to search *just* ruby-doc.org and get back references that tell you where to find the actual content you want. It would serve as an annotated map of the Ruby documentation uuniverse.

Thanks,

James Britt
jbritt AT ruby-doc DOT org

3

I'm assuming the lack of English documentation was the major barrier before 2002. IMHO, documentation now exists but they are scattered or hard for newcomers to find (ie compared to Perl). A Ruby search engine covering multiple websites would be really nice, starting with these docs (maybe we can get a corporate sponsor to host the search engine):

It would be very simple to setup a common search engine based on estraier (estraier.sf.net),
provided several ruby-relevant websites agree to use it. :slight_smile:

If you setup estraier as search and email me the cgi I happily setup a ruby meta-search-engine;
Or even better: we run it on all ruby-relevant websites that want to join the experiment.

howto:
http://estraier.sourceforge.net/spex.html
search for "Meta Search System"

Ciao,
    -Armin.

4

Hi --

···

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Randy Lawrence wrote:

Is there a Ruby advocacy group?

Ruby Central, Inc. (http://www.rubycentral.org) is a non-profit
organization for Ruby support and advocacy. It's the parent
organization for the International Ruby Conference.

David

--
David A. Black
dblack@wobblini.net

5

well, there is even: http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl

(And yes, I believe that a perl wiki is bad advocacy :wink:

···

il Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:14:01 +0900, James Britt <jamesUNDERBARb@neurogami.com> ha scritto::

Is there a Ruby advocacy group?

You're soaking in it!

6

James Britt wrote:

Randy Lawrence wrote:

Having discovered Ruby recently and falling in love with it, I'm wondering if there are any REMAINING reasons why Ruby isn't as widespread as some of the older (less-productive) scripting languages.

Is there a perception that Ruby still lacks decent documentation?

Yes, because it does.

Does lack of corporate backing hurt more than it helps?

Depends, but having a Big Name behind Ruby would likely help.

Should RubyForge and RAA be merged into a single archive with an interface similar to CPAN?

Something along those lines would be a good thing. At the least, hosting an project on RubyForge should automatically add an entry to the RAA.

Is there a Ruby advocacy group?

You're soaking in it!

I'm assuming the lack of English documentation was the major barrier before 2002. IMHO, documentation now exists but they are scattered or hard for newcomers to find (ie compared to Perl). A Ruby search engine covering multiple websites would be really nice, starting with these docs (maybe we can get a corporate sponsor to host the search engine):

Well, ruby-doc.org is or should be that search engine, albeit with a good deal of human intervention. When I learn of a new Ruby resource, I try to get it listed on ruby-doc.org.

However, the navigation of the site leaves much to be desired, so I've been redesigning the look and feel as well as the server code. Ideally, anything document, video, mp3, code sample, isbn, wtc related to Ruby should be locatable on ruby-doc.org, and in a variety of ways.

One should be able to query or drill down, for example, to find code samples on Web development that interface with C-based libraries, or videos that mention database programing, or tutorials for newbies with a functional language background.

1. RUBY BOOKS/GUIDES

2. RUBY CLASS/API REFERENCE

3. RUBY CODE SNIPPETS

4. RUBY AND C/C++ INTEGRATION

5. MOD_RUBY+ERUBY, CGIKIT, ETC.

Thanks for the list.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to organize/classify Ruby documentation (including tutorials, reference works, videos, blogs, wikis, translations, and so on). Some of your list matches what I've been working on, some are good additions.

Questions:
* What should people expect to find at www.ruby-doc.org?

* How should it behave?

* What goes on the front page?

My basic belief is that the site need not host much; it *could*, but that presents logistical and admin issues. However, one should be able to search *just* ruby-doc.org and get back references that tell you where to find the actual content you want. It would serve as an annotated map of the Ruby documentation uuniverse.

Thanks,

James Britt
jbritt AT ruby-doc DOT org

James,

Thanks for the detailed response and thanks even more for providing ruby-doc.org!!! The ruby-doc.org site is VERY appreciated.

In terms of some suggestions...

1. The primary links (documents..., downloads...) should be made much more obvious (larger font and/or more menu-like in appearance). It might even fit on a left vertical menu if you want to try it out.

2. The text used for primary links (primary menu) should make sense to noobs (ie they don't know terms like "PickAxe"). Here's one possible selection of the primary links (in all caps). For a "top menu" scenario, probably 1-4, and 7. For a "left menu" scenario, they'll all fit (submenus might not).

START
  Intro to ruby-doc.org (for noobs)
  Recommended reading
  Recommended downloads (ruby, must-have 3rd-party libs, etc.)

1. ARTICLES
  Intro to Ruby
  ...

2. BOOKS
  ONLINE
    Programming Ruby (Pickaxe)
    ...
  PURCHASE
    Amazon/Bookpool links ($ to help pay for ruby-doc.org)
    ...

3. CLASS/API REFERENCE
  core api
  stdlib
  ...

4. CODE EXAMPLES/SNIPPETS
  pleac_ruby
  ...

5. GUI
  FOX
  TK
  WX
  ...

6. SERVER-SIDE
  CGI
    mod_ruby
    eruby
    cgikit
    ...
  DATABASES
    DBI
    MySQL
    PostgreSQL
    SQLite
    ...
  DISTRIBUTED (DRB)
  WEBRICK
  ...
    
7. SEARCH
  simple or complex search forms on this page

8. USEFUL TOOLS (stable 3rd-party libraries)
  Log4r
  ...

9. USING C/C++/JAVA/...
  C/C++ with SWIG
  JRuby
  ...

7

ruby docs may not be as abundant as something like perl, but the
printed docs i have (pickaxe, nutshell) have gotten me through most
code. this place got me through the rest :slight_smile:

if you want to see an example of a language with atrocious
documentation (both on and offline) take a look at rebol.

the book 'rebol: the official guide' is over 700 pages and you will
not find one page with an example of how to parse command line
arguments to a rebol program. as far as i know the only place you can
find it online by sifting through one of the 500 example scripts on
the rebol web site.

···

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:14:01 +0900, you wrote:

Is there a perception that Ruby still lacks decent documentation?

Yes, because it does.

8

On that note, are there any wiki packages written in ruby?

···

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:47:45 +0900, gabriele renzi <surrender_it@rc1.vip.ukl.yahoo.com> wrote:

il Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:14:01 +0900, James Britt > <jamesUNDERBARb@neurogami.com> ha scritto::

>
>> Is there a Ruby advocacy group?
>
>You're soaking in it!

well, there is even: http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl

(And yes, I believe that a perl wiki is bad advocacy :wink:

--
</michael fivis>

9

Randy Lawrence wrote:

James,

Thanks for the detailed response and thanks even more for providing ruby-doc.org!!! The ruby-doc.org site is VERY appreciated.

You're welcome. Ruby-doc.org is a collaborative effort, and the real value is in the documentation others have been providing.

James

10

In my opinion, books like "Programming Ruby" and "Ruby in a Nutshell"
do a fine job of documenting the basics of Ruby programming. But when
one moves on to more advanced topics (if that's the right word),
things like programming web applications, GUIs, working with
databases, etc. the documentation starts to get spotty. You are
correct that the Ruby community is a helpful bunch, and that you can
get most of the help you need if you hang out on the mailing list or
IRC. But wouldn't it be swell to be able to go to the bookstore and
just buy "Developing Web Applications with Ruby" rather than
scavenging the web to try to piece together all of the knowledge that
you need?

···

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 03:35:13 +0900, tony summerfelt <snowzone5@hotmail.com> wrote:

ruby docs may not be as abundant as something like perl, but the
printed docs i have (pickaxe, nutshell) have gotten me through most
code. this place got me through the rest :slight_smile:

11

*lots* try to search on RAA :slight_smile:

The more succesfulls 3 seem to be
ruwiki -> http://ruwiki.rubyforge.org/
rwiki -> http://rwiki.jin.gr.jp/cgi-bin/rw-cgi.rb
instiki -> http://www.instiki.org/show/HomePage

···

il Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:54:39 +0900, Michael Fivis <michael.fivis@gmail.com> ha scritto::

On that note, are there any wiki packages written in ruby?

12

yeah it would :slight_smile: give it time. as more people take notice that supply
and demand thing will kick in with the books

i was a die hard perl programmer, and a tcl/tk fan, but the power of
ruby has really swayed me. i can't imagine working on a large project
in anything but ruby now...

···

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 04:53:00 +0900, you wrote:

But wouldn't it be swell to be able to go to the bookstore and
just buy "Developing Web Applications with Ruby"

13

awesome @ rubyforge.

(first day with ruby here. beginner-intermediate python convert.)

···

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 18:02:44 +0900, gabriele renzi <surrender_it@rc1.vip.ukl.yahoo.com> wrote:

il Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:54:39 +0900, Michael Fivis > <michael.fivis@gmail.com> ha scritto::

>On that note, are there any wiki packages written in ruby?
>
>

*lots* try to search on RAA :slight_smile:

The more succesfulls 3 seem to be
ruwiki -> http://ruwiki.rubyforge.org/
rwiki -> http://rwiki.jin.gr.jp/cgi-bin/rw-cgi.rb
instiki -> http://www.instiki.org/show/HomePage

--
</michael fivis>

14

And if anyone who has both broad and deep Ruby web development expertise was interested in writing such a book, we'd love to consider publishing it as part of the Pragmatic Bookshelf imprint.

Cheers

Dave

···

On Jul 8, 2004, at 16:33, tony summerfelt wrote:

But wouldn't it be swell to be able to go to the bookstore and
just buy "Developing Web Applications with Ruby"

yeah it would :slight_smile: give it time. as more people take notice that supply
and demand thing will kick in with the books

15

I'm not even *doing* web development, and I'd buy it. :wink:

···

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 06:50:22 +0900, Dave Thomas <dave@pragprog.com> wrote:

And if anyone who has both broad and deep Ruby web development
expertise was interested in writing such a book, we'd love to consider
publishing it as part of the Pragmatic Bookshelf imprint.

16

Lyle Johnson wrote:

···

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 06:50:22 +0900, Dave Thomas <dave@pragprog.com> wrote:

And if anyone who has both broad and deep Ruby web development
expertise was interested in writing such a book, we'd love to consider
publishing it as part of the Pragmatic Bookshelf imprint.
   
I'm not even *doing* web development, and I'd buy it. :wink:

Seconded(Though I do dabble in web-development).

-Matthew Margolis