Rails

Hi
Sure thats not a Rails-Forum,
but there you'll get no objective answers :wink:

For me Rails looks very complicated:
If wanting one thing, I have to change code at 100 different sources.
Were earlier releases less confusing?

If adding a new relation one change (name+relation-types) should suffice,
most other necessary changes could be derived from that!

And I never know what Rails does exactly (maybe I could look at the
Rails-sources, but thats too much...

Mapping Url to methods could be done with few lines, besides I would prefer
only one level (mapping file) - (fullurl) /regex/ matching, and the other
way round (method to url).

What do you think?

Isnt it very (too?) big? Do you really save much time using it?

Can you compare it to other Frameworks?

How much time will I need to use it productive? - for (over)simplification
say Ruby expert, Rails nobie.
Maybe as nowbie (newbie/nilbie) I don't have the right insight yet!

Thx Berg

I don’t think this is the right place to discuss this. If you want some insights you can always read the Rails source and everything will look less “magical” :smiley:

···

On August 2, 2016 at 3:47:44 PM, A Berger (aberger7890@gmail.com) wrote:

Hi
Sure thats not a Rails-Forum,
but there you'll get no objective answers :wink:

For me Rails looks very complicated:
If wanting one thing, I have to change code at 100 different sources.
Were earlier releases less confusing?

If adding a new relation one change (name+relation-types) should suffice, most other necessary changes could be derived from that!

And I never know what Rails does exactly (maybe I could look at the Rails-sources, but thats too much...

Mapping Url to methods could be done with few lines, besides I would prefer only one level (mapping file) - (fullurl) /regex/ matching, and the other way round (method to url).

What do you think?

Isnt it very (too?) big? Do you really save much time using it?

Can you compare it to other Frameworks?

How much time will I need to use it productive? - for (over)simplification say Ruby expert, Rails nobie.
Maybe as nowbie (newbie/nilbie) I don't have the right insight yet!

Thx Berg

[...]

What do you think?

Isnt it very (too?) big? Do you really save much time using it?

Can you compare it to other Frameworks?

How much time will I need to use it productive?

[...]

Whether Rails is a good choice for you depends very strongly
on the project you are working on. Rails was created for
a very specific type of web applications, for different types
other frameworks are a better fit.

So without having more specific information about the type
of project you are considering, it's impossible to answer
your question properly.

Regards,
Marcus

PS. I assume you would get useful answers also in a Rails forum
as long as you ask whether Rails is a good fit for _your_ use
case, as opposed to simply asking "should I use Rails?".

···

Am 02.08.2016 um 15:47 schrieb A Berger:

--
GitHub: stomar (Marcus Stollsteimer) · GitHub
PGP: 0x6B3A101A

Okay, for what it’s worth:

All frameworks have a big limitation – they work so long as you do things “their way”. If you go, well, “off the rails”, all bets are off, and you are probably in a pretty painful place. This is definitely true of Rails. But. Somehow it is less true than it should be.

(For example I recently looked into customising Rails’ scaffolding process so that I could generate basic CRUD maintenance screens with the same look and feel as we use here with Sinatra. There was some documentation, and where it was inadequate, generally the first thing I tried worked. Given the above, this is nothing short of miraculous, and the Rails developers should be applauded.)

In my opinion Rails is optimised for *development*. It will let you get something up and working and even deployed in a ridiculously short time. That is an amazing thing. But if you are looking to deploy permanently for a lot of users or with limited resources, you had better know what you are doing. And I wonder, when you know enough, what the chances are that you will then realise you are better off using something else…

One last thing. You should be aware that Rails has a learning curve – you need to know “Rails” not just Ruby -- and is a rapidly changing product. Those two things taken together might be problematic.

···

From: ruby-talk [mailto:ruby-talk-bounces@ruby-lang.org] On Behalf Of A Berger
Sent: 02 August 2016 2:47 pm
To: Ruby-Talk Mailingliste
Subject: Rails

Hi
Sure thats not a Rails-Forum,
but there you'll get no objective answers :wink:

For me Rails looks very complicated:
If wanting one thing, I have to change code at 100 different sources.
Were earlier releases less confusing?

If adding a new relation one change (name+relation-types) should suffice, most other necessary changes could be derived from that!

And I never know what Rails does exactly (maybe I could look at the Rails-sources, but thats too much...

Mapping Url to methods could be done with few lines, besides I would prefer only one level (mapping file) - (fullurl) /regex/ matching, and the other way round (method to url).

What do you think?

Isnt it very (too?) big? Do you really save much time using it?

Can you compare it to other Frameworks?

How much time will I need to use it productive? - for (over)simplification say Ruby expert, Rails nobie.
Maybe as nowbie (newbie/nilbie) I don't have the right insight yet!

Thx Berg

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Hi Alex,
I want to get some infos about the attitude of Rubyists. Posting this in a
Rails-list would give biased answers.
So you understand why I ask this here.

Whats the opinion of others? Is that question ok? (Rails is Ruby, isnt it?
:slight_smile:

Thanks
Berg

···

Am 02.08.2016 15:55 schrieb "Alex Unger" <zyxancf@gmail.com>:

I don’t think this is the right place to discuss this. If you want some
insights you can always read the Rails source
<https://github.com/rails/rails&gt; and everything will look less “magical”
:smiley:

On August 2, 2016 at 3:47:44 PM, A Berger (aberger7890@gmail.com) wrote:

Hi
Sure thats not a Rails-Forum,
but there you'll get no objective answers :wink:

For me Rails looks very complicated:
If wanting one thing, I have to change code at 100 different sources.
Were earlier releases less confusing?

If adding a new relation one change (name+relation-types) should suffice,
most other necessary changes could be derived from that!

And I never know what Rails does exactly (maybe I could look at the
Rails-sources, but thats too much...

Mapping Url to methods could be done with few lines, besides I would
prefer only one level (mapping file) - (fullurl) /regex/ matching, and
the other way round (method to url).

What do you think?

Isnt it very (too?) big? Do you really save much time using it?

Can you compare it to other Frameworks?

How much time will I need to use it productive? - for (over)simplification
say Ruby expert, Rails nobie.
Maybe as nowbie (newbie/nilbie) I don't have the right insight yet!

Thx Berg

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I see -

my wish would be having one thing for all (databased based) websites...
And I thought using Ruby Rails is without alternatives (Rails + css/js
addons...)

Berg

···

Am 02.08.2016 20:40 schrieb <sto.mar@web.de>:

Am 02.08.2016 um 15:47 schrieb A Berger:

[...]
> What do you think?
>
> Isnt it very (too?) big? Do you really save much time using it?
>
> Can you compare it to other Frameworks?
>
> How much time will I need to use it productive?
[...]

Whether Rails is a good choice for you depends very strongly
on the project you are working on. Rails was created for
a very specific type of web applications, for different types
other frameworks are a better fit.

So without having more specific information about the type
of project you are considering, it's impossible to answer
your question properly.

Regards,
Marcus

PS. I assume you would get useful answers also in a Rails forum
as long as you ask whether Rails is a good fit for _your_ use
case, as opposed to simply asking "should I use Rails?".

--
GitHub: stomar (Marcus Stollsteimer) · GitHub
PGP: 0x6B3A101A

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk&gt;

Thank you Andy!
Ruby also has a learning curve,
but with Rails you need mountain-climbing equipment :|<

But seems to be better to adapt Rails instead of writing a suitable own
framework.
Are there helpful Framework-gems?
what to do/choose, if knowing exactly what the result should be?

-+ You may answer me directly, we are in the Ruby-forum +-

thx
Berg

Does anyone here work with ruby on rails ? That wants to have a personal
conversation

···

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 1:06 PM, A Berger <aberger7890@gmail.com> wrote:

I see -

my wish would be having one thing for all (databased based) websites...
And I thought using Ruby Rails is without alternatives (Rails + css/js
addons...)

Berg
Am 02.08.2016 20:40 schrieb <sto.mar@web.de>:

Am 02.08.2016 um 15:47 schrieb A Berger:

[...]
> What do you think?
>
> Isnt it very (too?) big? Do you really save much time using it?
>
> Can you compare it to other Frameworks?
>
> How much time will I need to use it productive?
[...]

Whether Rails is a good choice for you depends very strongly
on the project you are working on. Rails was created for
a very specific type of web applications, for different types
other frameworks are a better fit.

So without having more specific information about the type
of project you are considering, it's impossible to answer
your question properly.

Regards,
Marcus

PS. I assume you would get useful answers also in a Rails forum
as long as you ask whether Rails is a good fit for _your_ use
case, as opposed to simply asking "should I use Rails?".

--
GitHub: https://github.com/stomar/
PGP: 0x6B3A101A

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<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk&gt;

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-request@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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You would be better off taking your questions to the rails list:

  rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com

That's what it's for :slight_smile:

···

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Jeff Rain <jeffrain21@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone here work with ruby on rails ?

--
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twitter: @hassan
Consulting Availability : Silicon Valley or remote

Whats a good wat to learn TK Gui programming with ruby

···

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Hassan Schroeder <hassan.schroeder@gmail.com > wrote:

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Jeff Rain <jeffrain21@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone here work with ruby on rails ?

You would be better off taking your questions to the rails list:

  rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com

That's what it's for :slight_smile:

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Hassan Schroeder | about.me
twitter: @hassan
Consulting Availability : Silicon Valley or remote

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There are a lot of Ruby-based web frameworks besides Rails.
Assuming you want a database and server rather than serving up static web sites, I’d consider Sinatra, or the Sinatra/Padrino pairing, or Hanami.
Searching the web for ruby web frameworks will turn up a host of options.

I think it’s best to approach any of these as combinations of DSLs and toolchains. The Ruby coding that makes such DSLs and toolchains possible is pretty interesting, but, as with DSLs in general, detailed and domain specific. Also highly influenced by the tastes and specific needs of the authors. This percolates upwards to the visible layer that the framework user interacts with — Sinatra is very different from Rails is very different from Hanami. Those differences have virtually nothing to do with the underlying Ruby code and nearly everything to do with the respective creator communities approach to the problem space and their view of ‘optimal solution’.
Web work is going to require javascript, html, css, and all of those have multiple support packages, frameworks, altnerative wrappers (typescript, coffeescript, etc. css, css, etc). There are a multitude of gems.

So the bottom line question may be — do you want to learn about and understand how web frameworks are built and how they do what they do, or do you want to learn which framework best suits your view of the web-development problem space, or do you want to “simply” use a Ruby web framework to build web sites?
Those are 3 very very different matters.

···

On Aug 2, 2016, at 4:06 PM, A Berger <aberger7890@gmail.com> wrote:

I see -

my wish would be having one thing for all (databased based) websites...
And I thought using Ruby Rails is without alternatives (Rails + css/js addons...)

But seems to be better to adapt Rails instead of writing a suitable own framework.
Are there helpful Framework-gems?
what to do/choose, if knowing exactly what the result should be?

I still think that talk of “Adapting” Rails is very much the wrong approach. *You* are much better off trying to adapt to *it*.

If your requirements are relatively simple and don’t appear to match Rails well, there are other frameworks: Sinatra, Lotus, ...

We picked Sinatra here precisely because there was *no* learning curve. It’s just Ruby. But of course it's not quite that straight-forward, because almost everthing that Rails would have done for us, we have to do ourselves...

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But seems to be better to adapt Rails instead of writing a suitable own
framework.

s/adapt/use/

And you certainly would not want to write your own framework.

Are there helpful Framework-gems?
what to do/choose, if knowing exactly what the result should be?

Various options have already be mentioned. Please do some
reading on your own -- especially Rails is a heavily covered
subject; there also should exist blog posts or talks about
its limits and alternatives -- or at least be more specific
about "what the result should be".

As in a different thread only recently has been pointed out,
nobody here is getting paid for answering questions;
so you should not expect someone here to essentially write
just for you an entire article about all the available
options and their respective use cases.

Best regards,
Marcus

···

Am 03.08.2016 um 12:05 schrieb A Berger:

--
GitHub: https://github.com/stomar/
PGP: 0x6B3A101A