Quizmaster Retiring: Revenge of the Sith

But it is interesting to note that we had quite some discussions and I
really did favor the group approach. However your determination and
the slow progress of the group approach made it clear to the others
that it would be you, and it was really just fine like that.

And this is why I am asking for a new quizmaster now.

And this is why I put myself into the queue, but at the end of the queue.

There needs to be someone who will drive the project; otherwise, little gets
done. When you have a motivated leader, only then can you determine how any
sort of group dynamic will function.

I am willing to drive the project.
But I will favor the team approach. The less the "leader" is seen the
better. But I agree that there shall be a Primus Inter Pares who can
break ties if really necessary
As such the leader has a bad role. Assure the quiz if the team effort
does not suffice and break ties if needed.
Right now, as I am looking for a job, I have some time to do that...

Anyway good luck to you Matthew.

Cheers
Robert

···

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Matthew Moss <matt@moss.name> wrote:

Perl's Quiz of the Week (which I modeled Ruby Quiz off of) had two quizzes each week for a while. One was a beginner quiz and the other was an expert.

My approach for the quiz was just to try to have quizzes that ranged the gamut. We were probably more top heavy than I intended, but we definitely had a few beginner problems. I've used those same problems in teaching beginners anyway.

What I think would have helped is a way for people to rate quiz difficulty. As it stands now, you pretty much need to comb the sight and look for the quizzes with a lot of solutions. Those are generally the easy problems. But that process is less than ideal.

James Edward Gray II

···

On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:31 AM, rick_2047 wrote:

I do not know the particular history & culture of quizzes (i say
quizzes because i know about python and perl quiz) but i find it very
common that most of them are like for the stack of people just above
the intermediate level(correct me if its wrong). Nobody seems to be
bothered about those learners just who have just understood the
syntax, conventions and philosophy of ruby. While the quizzes are
great they are of little value for such people (who actually are the
most in need). I always maintained that the best way to learn the
solution is to actually solve the problem. Now i propose that apart
from the regular quiz section we have, we also start a beginner quiz.
You know like quizzes intended for people who are just learning tho
ropes.

I've actually done little Ruby outside of simple text-parsing scripts, Project Euler, and Ruby Quiz (I wrote 300-line data mining program for a charity and a not-quite-finished Lisp interpreter for fun), but I nevertheless consider myself a proficient Rubyist thanks to Ruby Quiz alone. I started by trying a couple of the older quizzes, then later saw that the then-current quiz, #118, was easily within my reach, and then continued from there, and found my skills quickly rising over the next dozen. I really like the Ruby Quiz format for learning programming -- they make it easy to learn a wide variety of skills. If I were working on my own, I'd probably develop a comfort zone in a single area, and rarely venture out of it; RubyQuiz brings diverse areas to me. Even if you're motivated to try
to tackle a new area and you still can't solve it, the summaries do a great job of bringing expert-level code down to beginner level.

Probably the most important part is the comparison; it motivates me to read other people's solutions and contrast them with mine, which was great for introducing me to a variety of libraries and styles.

In summary, the solution for beginners isn't for Ruby Quiz to come down to you. Ruby Quiz already provides what's needed for you to rise up to Ruby Quiz's level.

···

________________________________
From: rick_2047 <rick.chatterbox@gmail.com>
To: ruby-talk ML <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:31:51 AM
Subject: Re: Quizmaster Retiring: Revenge of the Sith

Ok of all the people who are commenting i am perhaps the least
qualified coz i never solved one on my own, but i think this is the
best time to tell people what has been on my mind for a very long
time. But first let me make it clear that i am in no state right now
to take voluteering for what i am suggesting.

I do not know the particular history & culture of quizzes (i say
quizzes because i know about python and perl quiz) but i find it very
common that most of them are like for the stack of people just above
the intermediate level(correct me if its wrong). Nobody seems to be
bothered about those learners just who have just understood the
syntax, conventions and philosophy of ruby. While the quizzes are
great they are of little value for such people (who actually are the
most in need). I always maintained that the best way to learn the
solution is to actually solve the problem. Now i propose that apart
from the regular quiz section we have, we also start a beginner quiz.
You know like quizzes intended for people who are just learning tho
ropes.

I know many of you think that it would be unlikely (specially now that
we lack a proper quiz master altogether) to have something like this.
But think about all those beginners who are left gasping for breath
when they read the first quiz.

On Jan 15, 7:20 am, Tom Link <micat...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Likewise, it may be an easier task to do quizzes only monthly, or
> every other week.

I personally think a group of quiz masters would necessarily result in
a greater variation of "quizzes" which would probably make more people
interested in solving the quiz. IMHO a weekly quiz would be better
suited to maintain a general interest. This would probably be easier
to achieve for a group (2+) of quiz masters. You're right though that
such a group would still need somebody who carries the one ring to
bind then all. :slight_smile:

Many thanks for your time and effort you put into the ruby quiz. I
always found it quite interesting to follow the discussion & read the
summary.

And I would happily receive them :slight_smile:
Cheers
R.

···

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 5:33 AM, Martin DeMello <martindemello@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:

update:
Sorry folks it's 3am and I should probably go to bed...
What about relaunching one or two of the old Ruby Quizzes that might
have considerable different solutions in Ruby1.9. That might fill the
gap for one or two weeks.

James, Matthew would that be fine with you? Any ideas, maybe Ara's
metakoans, they were just crying for block parameters in blocks IIRC.

I don't have the time to actually *run* a quiz, but if someone wants
quiz problems I can happily supply them.

Hello Everyone,
  I submit my bid to be considered for the position of Quizmaster to
the Tribunal.

  I am not opposed to a group effort, the more people available to
suggest quizzes and create summaries will enable more diverse
perspectives; but ultimately there needs to be determined leadership
to take responsibility for coordinating and producing the final
result. In any case, I look forward to being involved in the next
incarnation of Ruby Quiz.

My Qualifications:
  Teamwork: I listen to different perspectives and aim to meet the
needs of all parties.
  Persistence: Last year I ate pizza once a day for 234 days in a row.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pNTecYy2-3N5V9AL0qkKDRg
  Leadership: No matter whether a group or an individual is
responsible for Ruby Quiz there needs to be strong leadership. I am
able and willing to commit my time every week to keeping the quality
of Ruby Quiz as high as it has been, which is not a trivial task.

Thank you to Matthew and James for all the work they have done to make
Ruby Quiz great.

···

--
-Daniel

Thank you to both James and Matthew for doing the Quiz.

I think I can count the number of quizzes I solved on one hand, but
they were some of the most fun I've had programming.

-Michael

···

--
Michael C. Libby
www.mikelibby.com

I submit my bid to be considered for the position of Quizmaster to
the Tribunal.

Daniel Moore contacted me almost immediately after my initial posting showing his interest in continuing the Ruby Quiz. After a bit of discussion, I've decided to pass the reins to Daniel. Thank you!

I am not opposed to a group effort, the more people available to
suggest quizzes and create summaries will enable more diverse
perspectives; but ultimately there needs to be determined leadership
to take responsibility for coordinating and producing the final
result. In any case, I look forward to being involved in the next
incarnation of Ruby Quiz.

Additionally, Robert Dobert has shown substantial energy towards a group effort. Daniel, while yours is the final authority, I would suggest working closely with Robert, towards any group efforts, however it seems right to you.

Persistence: Last year I ate pizza once a day for 234 days in a row.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pNTecYy2-3N5V9AL0qkKDRg

Hmm... Sausage pesto pizza? I'm so there...

I am able and willing to commit my time every week to keeping the quality of Ruby Quiz as high as it has been, which is not a trivial task.

Daniel and Robert, I look forward to seeing the fruit of your efforts. Please do not hesitate to contact me should you need advice.

···

On Jan 16, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Daniel Moore wrote:

Matthew I really appreciated your input. I have however already
decided to run a Ruby Quiz 3 project.

The purpose of this project is to keep Ruby Quiz alive and as a team
effort if possible. Daniel you are welcome to join. If you want to run
a Ruby Quiz of your own please let me know, I will try not to step on
your feet. E.g. not have a quiz the same week as you or a beginner
quiz if you have an advanced one and vs. versa. Maybe some short
midweek quizzes might be in order too.

http://rubyquiz3.rubyforge.org/

And I am looking forward to having lot's of members soon :slight_smile:

Cheers
Robert

I'm very excited to be heading the future Ruby Quiz. Reading the Ruby
Quiz posts on the mailing list has always been a great experience for
me as I continue to learn more about Ruby. I intend to continue the
high level of quality that Matthew and James have established.

I am interested in hearing about any quiz ideas or general
suggestions. There have been several good ones already and I want to
test some of them out over time. My primary focus will be on posting
good quizzes and summaries on the mailing list every week. Also, a
Rails site with simple tagging and search is in the works.

I look forward to seeing your responses as we continue to play with
interesting programming problems through Ruby.

···

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Matthew Moss <matt@moss.name> wrote:

Daniel Moore contacted me almost immediately after my initial posting
showing his interest in continuing the Ruby Quiz. After a bit of discussion,
I've decided to pass the reins to Daniel. Thank you!

--
-Daniel

<sighs>

Please don't splinter this effort. Matthew named Daniel as his
replacement, and so his project should be called Ruby Quiz 3, if he so
wishes. If the two of you want to join together, great. But you just
did a 180 turn from being a 'reluctant leader', didn't you? :slight_smile:

-greg

···

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:

Matthew I really appreciated your input. I have however already
decided to run a Ruby Quiz 3 project.

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacreature.com
Non-tech stuff at: http://metametta.blogspot.com
"Ruby Best Practices" Book now in O'Reilly Roughcuts:
http://rubybestpractices.com

I wonder if every now and then it would be an idea to post a quiz that is directed towards learning some new language feature or library? Many past quizzes have been to do with algorithms (which is fun), but the advent of Ruby 1.9 and its many new features means that a quiz could also be a learning opportunity. What can we do with (say) symetric coroutines, or enumerators, or...

Dave

···

On Jan 16, 2009, at 7:03 PM, Daniel Moore wrote:

I am interested in hearing about any quiz ideas or general
suggestions. There have been several good ones already and I want to
test some of them out over time. My primary focus will be on posting
good quizzes and summaries on the mailing list every week. Also, a
Rails site with simple tagging and search is in the works.

I will step back from my project if somebody wants to lead it, but in
a team effort. Meaning all members should have their quizzes. Daniel
could have done this but he believes in a different philosophy. Right
or did I miss-understand? Should I give up my philosophy because of
that?, I do not think so.

However I am aware of a potential confusion, I hurried to register the
Rubyforge project because I had the impression that Rubyquiz2 was over
already. I did not mean to monopolize the name "Ruby Quiz" but I did,
sorry.

Well I guess we really have to coordinate that somehow. Daniel do you
want to share / take over the Rubyforge space? I could register a
different project e.g. "Ziuq Ybur Esrever"

Cheers
Robert

···

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:

Matthew I really appreciated your input. I have however already
decided to run a Ruby Quiz 3 project.

<sighs>

Please don't splinter this effort. Matthew named Daniel as his
replacement, and so his project should be called Ruby Quiz 3, if he so
wishes.
If the two of you want to join together, great. But you just
did a 180 turn from being a 'reluctant leader', didn't you? :slight_smile:

--
It is change, continuing change, inevitable change, that is the
dominant factor in society today. No sensible decision can be made any
longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but
the world as it will be ... ~ Isaac Asimov

I am interested in hearing about any quiz ideas or general
suggestions. There have been several good ones already and I want to
test some of them out over time. My primary focus will be on posting
good quizzes and summaries on the mailing list every week. Also, a
Rails site with simple tagging and search is in the works.

I wonder if every now and then it would be an idea to post a quiz that is directed towards learning some new language feature or library?

This is a great point.

Many past quizzes have been to do with algorithms

Yes, I recognized this issue during my run with the quiz. I did try to fight it some, but my efforts weren't very successful. In my experience, it was just a lot easier to get people interested in the algorithm problems.

However, many of the quizzes I enjoyed the most weren't algorithm heavy problems.

James Edward Gray II

···

On Jan 16, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Dave Thomas wrote:

On Jan 16, 2009, at 7:03 PM, Daniel Moore wrote:

Not necessarily, but you should keep in mind that what Daniel
suggested is how Ruby Quiz 1 and 2 ran:

" I am not opposed to a group effort, the more people available to
suggest quizzes and create summaries will enable more diverse
perspectives; but ultimately there needs to be determined leadership
to take responsibility for coordinating and producing the final
result. In any case, I look forward to being involved in the next
incarnation of Ruby Quiz."

Whereas your idea is different. Different isn't bad, I just think
that the person selected by the incumbent RubyQuiz master with the
plan to continue with the same strategy is the one that should
continue to use the title "Ruby Quiz".

···

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Gregory Brown > <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:

Matthew I really appreciated your input. I have however already
decided to run a Ruby Quiz 3 project.

<sighs>

Please don't splinter this effort. Matthew named Daniel as his
replacement, and so his project should be called Ruby Quiz 3, if he so
wishes.

If the two of you want to join together, great. But you just
did a 180 turn from being a 'reluctant leader', didn't you? :slight_smile:

I will step back from my project if somebody wants to lead it, but in
a team effort. Meaning all members should have their quizzes. Daniel
could have done this but he believes in a different philosophy. Right
or did I miss-understand? Should I give up my philosophy because of
that?, I do not think so.

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacreature.com
Non-tech stuff at: http://metametta.blogspot.com
"Ruby Best Practices" Book now in O'Reilly Roughcuts:
http://rubybestpractices.com

For what concerns the Ruby Quiz 1 and 2 were a one man show, just look
at my quote please ;).
<snip>
We had some private mails I will not disclose of course, but again, if
I misunderstood Daniel just has to say one word.
Gimme admin rights (ok these are three, close 'nuff).

Forgive me for being blunt but maybe it is also time to relax a little
and let us figure it out...

R.

···

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote:

--
It is change, continuing change, inevitable change, that is the
dominant factor in society today. No sensible decision can be made any
longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but
the world as it will be ... ~ Isaac Asimov

You completely missed the point. If you fork a project, you should
change its name, unless the original developers on a project support
you re-using their name. I think the same thing applies here.
Creating a project called Ruby Quiz 3 on RubyForge without the
approval of the existing Ruby Quiz master is about the same as me
calling myself "Robert Dober II". I didn't argue that you shouldn't
create a different type of quiz. I just suggested that you shouldn't
have taken the name without the existing maintainer (or at least the
community) backing you. Unless of course, you're intentionally trying
to create a schism.

Sincerely,
- Robert Dober II

···

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Gregory Brown > <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote:
For what concerns the Ruby Quiz 1 and 2 were a one man show, just look
at my quote please ;).
<snip>
We had some private mails I will not disclose of course, but again, if
I misunderstood Daniel just has to say one word.
Gimme admin rights (ok these are three, close 'nuff).

Forgive me for being blunt but maybe it is also time to relax a little
and let us figure it out...

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacreature.com
Non-tech stuff at: http://metametta.blogspot.com
"Ruby Best Practices" Book now in O'Reilly Roughcuts:
http://rubybestpractices.com

You were right I did not get that :(.

But I explained that it was an error of my part. And I will rename my
project, I told so too, no?
OTOH it would be stupid to cause some more work to Tom, to whom I
apologize hereby, if Daniel will take over the infrastructure. Do you
read Daniel?

That was what I meant with relax, I promise I will work this out with Daniel.

Are we happy here? And just in case to be sure we understand each other:

It was not my intention to use the name RubyQuiz3 against a broad
consensus and I will not.

···

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW I really like the name "Ziuq Ybur Esrever" :).

Robert

--
It is change, continuing change, inevitable change, that is the
dominant factor in society today. No sensible decision can be made any
longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but
the world as it will be ... ~ Isaac Asimov

Gregory Brown wrote:

If you fork a project, you should
change its name, unless the original developers on a project support
you re-using their name. I think the same thing applies here.
Creating a project called Ruby Quiz 3 on RubyForge without the
approval of the existing Ruby Quiz master is about the same as me
calling myself "Robert Dober II". I didn't argue that you shouldn't
create a different type of quiz. I just suggested that you shouldn't
have taken the name without the existing maintainer (or at least the
community) backing you.

Well said, Gregory.

Robert Dober wrote:

It was not my intention to use the name RubyQuiz3 against a broad
consensus and I will not.

Thank you for understanding, Robert.

And, with regards the rubyquiz3 rubyforge project, I suppose that is up to Daniel, in consultation with you, as to whether he wants to use that in lieu of, or in addition to, a dedicated web site.