(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.
I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did, because i really would like to try the ruby language!
Bye!
(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I might be repeating a lot of stuff that's already been written in the
past about this, but since you asked, here are the two _main_ reasons:
* Ruby is relatively new compared to Python
* Most of Ruby's initial docs/mls were in Japanese
Things are changing now, of course.
I don't see other reasons, actually. It'd be interesting to see if
others point out other reasons. :-w
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:11:24 +0900, Lethalman <lethalman@fyrebird.net> wrote:
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.
I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!Bye!
--
Premshree Pillai
* Lethalman (Jan 09, 2005 17:20):
Hello, i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features,
however it doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
Please, oh please look at the ruby-talk archives before asking questions
like these. We have had a countless number of threads on this subject
already. There's nothing to be gained by this discussion anymore.
Anyway, your statement is a bit ambigious. Do you mean supported as in
"used and _endorsed_ by a lot of people" or as in "receiving a lot of
attention from its developers"? Either way, I think that you haven't
seen the whole picture. It is both actively used and actively
developed.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.
Yes, yes...and Java is perhaps the most used language in the industry at
the moment. If you are required to use Python, then do...you could do
far worse. However, if you're doing things for your own pleasure, you
shouldn't be limiting yourself to using whatever language seems most
popular at the moment.
I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!
I really don't understand what you mean here. Python has been around
longer than Ruby, so it has gained a larger user-base. It is also much
closer related to Algol-type languages (such as C) than Ruby is. Thus,
many users of Python are using it since it fits their mental model
better. This isn't to say that Ruby isn't as usable, probably the
opposite in fact. Ruby brings ideas from many programming lanugages
together, taking the best of many paradigms; you can find bits of Lisp,
SmallTalk, Perl, C, sh, and even Python in Ruby. I don't understand why
you can't use a language simply because ESR (Eric S. Raymond) uses
Python,
nikolai
--
::: name: Nikolai Weibull :: aliases: pcp / lone-star / aka :::
::: born: Chicago, IL USA :: loc atm: Gothenburg, Sweden :::
::: page: www.pcppopper.org :: fun atm: gf,lps,ruby,lisp,war3 :::
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}
Lethalman wrote:
(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did, because i really would like to try the ruby language!
Ruby is moving up the charts.
Regardless of its popularity, you can try the Ruby language and decide for yourself whether it deserves more attention.
If everyone waited until something was popular before using it we'd probably get stuck using languages owned by Sun and Microsoft.
James
Hi,
(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!
Besides what the other guys have already said that I agree with, I
think Python has had better support on Windows and they have an
integrated IDE which supports auto-completion. On Windows, many times,
people try out Cygwin out of despair. 
Another point is that Python
seems faster (performance-wise) for some tasks.
So, I don't blame the Pythonists for choosing the wrong language...
They are partially right, at least. We have a better language,
some very nice libraries and a great community.
Cheers,
Joao
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:11:24 +0900, Lethalman <lethalman@fyrebird.net> wrote:
Lethalman wrote:
(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did, because i really would like to try the ruby language!
I'm not sure what that means, but if you're arguing about adaption, we're doing well and even more well. You can help us with doing yet even more more well by starting to use it today. You won't regret it.
Lethalman ha scritto:
(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did, because i really would like to try the ruby language!
it is doing, it seem, I think this thing was true for pythonvs perl and for perl vs tcl and maybe tcl vs sh..
just wait some more
Anyway, just wanted to notice you that there is an italian ruby user group (I think I saw you con i.c.l.py) that you can from at
http://ada2.unipv.it/ruby
we have a low traffic mailing list but if you ask for something you get an answer quite quickly 
Hello Lethalman,
(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.
I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!
At the moment i would say that the language is in some aspects better
then python. But the current implementation is not as good as the language
itself.
Ruby does not have native threading, makeing it a serious problem for
interactive GUI applications. Here Python is in almost all cases still
the better choice.
Ruby has problems with being embedded into other programs, especially
when they are multithreaded but also when they must use two
independent interpreters (like some application servers).
If your application needs to be fast then normally ruby and python are
not a good choice. But it is much easier to improve the performance of
python then ruby, because there are a few more sophisticated
technologies for python then for ruby.
If this 3 reasons are not important to your application then choose
ruby otherwise use another language.
--
Best regards, emailto: scholz at scriptolutions dot com
Lothar Scholz http://www.ruby-ide.com
CTO Scriptolutions Ruby, PHP, Python IDE 's
Lethalman wrote:
(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I don't understand "supported". The *longest* time
that has ever elapsed between when I asked for
help here and gotten a response has been just over
an hour!
I've simply been amazed at the "support" of the Ruby
community.
Regards,
--
Bil Kleb, Hampton, Virginia
http://fun3d.larc.nasa.gov
Lethalman wrote:
(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did, because i really would like to try the ruby language!
Bye!
Some might say the same about Microsoft Windows vs Linux. Rather than looking at the current status, look at the trend to see which technoloy is enjoying a faster growth rate.
As I type this, #python has 130 users and #ruby-lang has 185 users (the most I've seen). About 2-3 months ago, I saw around 190 in #python and only 160 in #ruby-lang. Ruby is seeing constant and continuous increase in popularity while Python does not (based solely on the IRC observation).
I understand that using only IRC channel membership by itself might not be accurate but it is something we can measure. And the trend is clear: ruby is growing in popularity while python is not. So you decide if you want to stick with something that has already peaked or if you want to go with something that is growing consistently.
Also keep in mind that Ruby didn't have any English-language books before year 2000. It now has around a half-dozen or so and more is coming out each year. The lack of English documentation was the biggest (perhaps only) weakness in Ruby.
I've heard Ruby is already more popular in Japan than Python--but I don't know if that is true because I don't know how the numbers were measured. Again, what is important is the growth trend and not just the current status (think MS Windows, Mac OSX, and Linux).
Here's one: Ruby is better than Python, but the industry has decided
that worse is better, so Python wins.
Another one: Bruce Eckel (for whom I had lots of respect) has said that
Ruby is not worth learning compared to Python (which is why I lost all
the respect I had for him, poof, instantly gone, bye bye), so Python
wins again.
Oh, and another one: Python users don't like to admit that they made the
wrong choice, so they stick with their inferior solution, so Python wins
again.
Do you need more ?
Premshree Pillai <premshree.pillai@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't see other reasons, actually.
--
Luc Heinrich - lucsky@mac.com
Hi,
> (sorry for my poor English)
> Hello,
> i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
> doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
> I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.
>
> I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
> because i really would like to try the ruby language!Besides what the other guys have already said that I agree with, I
think Python has had better support on Windows and they have an
integrated IDE which supports auto-completion. On Windows, many times,
people try out Cygwin out of despair.
seems faster (performance-wise) for some tasks.
And Ruby is faster (performance-wise) for some _other_ tasks. I
don't think it's worth comparing the performances of two languages
generally. They should -- and are -- compared on a task basis.
Actually, if you see the list archives, folks from the Python ml tend
to say something to the effect of: "Python is generally faster than
Ruby"; and folks here tend to say the other way. 
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:51:57 +0900, Joao Pedrosa <joaopedrosa@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:11:24 +0900, Lethalman <lethalman@fyrebird.net> wrote:
So, I don't blame the Pythonists for choosing the wrong language...
some very nice libraries and a great community.Cheers,
Joao
--
Premshree Pillai
Hello Lethalman,
> (sorry for my poor English)
> Hello,
> i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
> doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
> I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.> I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
> because i really would like to try the ruby language!At the moment i would say that the language is in some aspects better
Could you elaborate on those aspects?
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 04:06:40 +0900, Lothar Scholz <mailinglists@scriptolutions.com> wrote:
then python. But the current implementation is not as good as the language
itself.Ruby does not have native threading, makeing it a serious problem for
interactive GUI applications. Here Python is in almost all cases still
the better choice.Ruby has problems with being embedded into other programs, especially
when they are multithreaded but also when they must use two
independent interpreters (like some application servers).If your application needs to be fast then normally ruby and python are
not a good choice. But it is much easier to improve the performance of
python then ruby, because there are a few more sophisticated
technologies for python then for ruby.If this 3 reasons are not important to your application then choose
ruby otherwise use another language.--
Best regards, emailto: scholz at scriptolutions dot com
Lothar Scholz http://www.ruby-ide.com
CTO Scriptolutions Ruby, PHP, Python IDE 's
--
Premshree Pillai
Lethalman wrote:
> (sorry for my poor English)
> Hello,
> i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
> doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
> I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.
>
> I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
> because i really would like to try the ruby language!
>
> Bye!Some might say the same about Microsoft Windows vs Linux. Rather than
looking at the current status, look at the trend to see which technoloy
is enjoying a faster growth rate.As I type this, #python has 130 users and #ruby-lang has 185 users (the
That's interesting, but (as you mentioned later) not an accurate
measure. Compare the mailing list posts at Python with that of Ruby.
The picture is _very_ different.
most I've seen). About 2-3 months ago, I saw around 190 in #python and
only 160 in #ruby-lang. Ruby is seeing constant and continuous increase
in popularity while Python does not (based solely on the IRC observation).I understand that using only IRC channel membership by itself might not
be accurate but it is something we can measure. And the trend is clear:
ruby is growing in popularity while python is not. So you decide if you
want to stick with something that has already peaked or if you want to
go with something that is growing consistently.Also keep in mind that Ruby didn't have any English-language books
before year 2000. It now has around a half-dozen or so and more is
coming out each year. The lack of English documentation was the biggest
(perhaps only) weakness in Ruby.
Exactly. I don't see any other reason why Ruby didn't take off as well
as Python.
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:56:22 +0900, Thursday <nospam@nospam.nospam.nospam.nospam.org> wrote:
I've heard Ruby is already more popular in Japan than Python--but I
don't know if that is true because I don't know how the numbers were
measured. Again, what is important is the growth trend and not just the
current status (think MS Windows, Mac OSX, and Linux).
--
Premshree Pillai
Thursday ha scritto:
As I type this, #python has 130 users and #ruby-lang has 185 users (the most I've seen). About 2-3 months ago, I saw around 190 in #python and only 160 in #ruby-lang. Ruby is seeing constant and continuous increase in popularity while Python does not (based solely on the IRC observation).
well, supposing you're talking about freenode, consider tha a #python2 channel exists. Well, we have #rubyonrails and #iowa too. And btw they have #twisted and #twisted.web. Oh, and #rubygems and #rpa. But, hei, #python.web and probably #zope. I mean, there could be a better analisys
I understand that using only IRC channel membership by itself might not be accurate but it is something we can measure. And the trend is clear: ruby is growing in popularity while python is not. So you decide if you want to stick with something that has already peaked or if you want to go with something that is growing consistently.
I won't say python is not growing. Maybe ruby is growing a little bit more, anyway. But maybe not. Statistical considerations are the next thing in the "lies, damn lies, benchmark" list, I guess
In the end It always boils down to "I'm happy with ruby, you're happy with python, lest's spread good karma"
> doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I don't understand "supported".
I think he means supported by hosts etc, though that is changing too I think.
Douglas
Luc Heinrich wrote:
I don't see other reasons, actually.
Here's one: Ruby is better than Python, but the industry has decided
that worse is better, so Python wins.Another one: Bruce Eckel (for whom I had lots of respect) has said that
Ruby is not worth learning compared to Python (which is why I lost all
the respect I had for him, poof, instantly gone, bye bye), so Python
wins again.Oh, and another one: Python users don't like to admit that they made the
wrong choice, so they stick with their inferior solution, so Python wins
again.Do you need more ?
(sorry for my poor English)
I do agree with everything you said, escpecially this:
> Oh, and another one: Python users don't like to admit that they made the
> wrong choice, so they stick with their inferior solution, so Python wins
> again.
However i should say choosing ruby whould be like using a "deprecated language". It has a low support, development and many other reason that programmers (and not only pythonist) don't choose ruby.
I think if ruby become a very known-language python could go back to guido var rossum. The only way is to make great & original projects, then vendors MUST implement ruby in their products.
Please, phrases to let me start ruby programming? I'm making a medium-big project with python (a powerful and very custmizable-modular ircd) and i know ruby can do more than python, but i really don't want to change (easy-to-use matters)...
Premshree Pillai <premshree.pillai@gmail.com> wrote:
* Luc Heinrich (Jan 09, 2005 17:40):
> I don't see other reasons, actually.
Here's one: Ruby is better than Python, but the industry has decided
that worse is better, so Python wins.
Ah, a Peter Gabriel-ism ;-),
nikolai
--
::: name: Nikolai Weibull :: aliases: pcp / lone-star / aka :::
::: born: Chicago, IL USA :: loc atm: Gothenburg, Sweden :::
::: page: www.pcppopper.org :: fun atm: gf,lps,ruby,lisp,war3 :::
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}
> I don't see other reasons, actually.
Here's one: Ruby is better than Python, but the industry has decided
that worse is better, so Python wins.
I think you are being too critical about Python. I use Ruby as well as
Python for my work. Whenever I make a presentation about Ruby, I often
draw similarities between Ruby and Python. There are not many _major_
differences between the two languages from the POV of a language user.
Another one: Bruce Eckel (for whom I had lots of respect) has said that
Ruby is not worth learning compared to Python (which is why I lost all
the respect I had for him, poof, instantly gone, bye bye), so Python
wins again.
That was in a FAQ, right? That comment doesn't exist anymore, I think.
Maybe he changed his views or something.
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:36:22 +0900, Luc Heinrich <lucsky@mac.com> wrote:
Premshree Pillai <premshree.pillai@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, and another one: Python users don't like to admit that they made the
wrong choice, so they stick with their inferior solution, so Python wins
again.Do you need more ?
--
Luc Heinrich - lucsky@mac.com
--
Premshree Pillai
Hi,
> Hello Lethalman,
>
> > (sorry for my poor English)
> > Hello,
> > i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
> > doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
> > I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.
>
> > I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
> > because i really would like to try the ruby language!
>
> At the moment i would say that the language is in some aspects betterCould you elaborate on those aspects?
It would be great to hear about those... But really, if someone that
programs in Ruby and Python doesn't know them, they probably don't
exist, right?
Guido could have created Ruby and Matz Python and no one would have
found that strange.
My take is that Ruby and Python are too different to make for an easy
comparison.
If someone created a couple of libs in both languages I'm sure he
would have to choose one of the two soon... But just to use the
languages and libraries I think someone could keep up with both
worlds.
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud...
Cheers,
Joao
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 04:13:06 +0900, Premshree Pillai <premshree.pillai@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 04:06:40 +0900, Lothar Scholz > <mailinglists@scriptolutions.com> wrote: