[OT] Trying to change my OS from Windows to Linux/Mac

ruby-talk
1

Hello, Ruby people!

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.
Thus the people in this group can answer my question very well.
Also, I feel very comfortable with people in this group, even if I
don't know them personally.
(I feel like they are my friends.)
This question is not meant to bring flame wars!

I use Windows at my work and home.
Of course, I tried several linux OS's (RedHat, SUSE, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu) and this year I even purchased Mini Mac.
However, I haven't succeeded to make myself used to these OS's.

I have some questions to linux users and Mac users.

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

Thanks.

Sam

2

Sam Kong wrote:

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

The Mac mouse is a plain USB mouse, you can just plug in your windows mouse and away you go. Same for the scroll wheel.

3

Just a note, Macs (with OS X) do support a two-button mouse + scroll wheel.
I have a Mighty Mouse, and it's two-button with a scroll ball and
everything. Though I'd recommend just getting a normal mouse, the MM isn't
that great.

···

On 11/21/05, Sam Kong <sam.s.kong@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, Ruby people!

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.
Thus the people in this group can answer my question very well.
Also, I feel very comfortable with people in this group, even if I
don't know them personally.
(I feel like they are my friends.)
This question is not meant to bring flame wars!

I use Windows at my work and home.
Of course, I tried several linux OS's (RedHat, SUSE, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu) and this year I even purchased Mini Mac.
However, I haven't succeeded to make myself used to these OS's.

I have some questions to linux users and Mac users.

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

Thanks.

Sam

4

Hello, Ruby people!

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.
Thus the people in this group can answer my question very well.
Also, I feel very comfortable with people in this group, even if I
don't know them personally.
(I feel like they are my friends.)
This question is not meant to bring flame wars!

I use Windows at my work and home.
Of course, I tried several linux OS's (RedHat, SUSE, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu) and this year I even purchased Mini Mac.
However, I haven't succeeded to make myself used to these OS's.

Linux is Linux, they are basically all the same, the only real difference is
usually the package manager and a few different configuration files which
differ from Redhat-based to Debian-based. Its very easy to use one or the
other, I just jump on a box and start adjusting settings I need. Linux is
just a kernel, distro differences are very small, at least to me.

I have some questions to linux users and Mac users.

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

Full install of KDE of course, and drop down to openbox when I'm not doing 60
million tasks at once.

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

You must research what the laptop specifications are before trying Linux on a
laptop. I use Toshiba based laptops with linux on them all the time. Fully
supported. Toshiba has a synaptic touchpad problem, but is easily fixed. The
kernel in ubuntu breezy has patches already.

I only used NVIDIA based laptops so I may use twinview. GeforceFX 5200 Go
64MB, this card works very well. Even the softmodem works on this laptop.

M35-S456 (re-certified, not refurb, was best deal at time, 1.7 GHz loaded -
except the DVD-RAM drive.. worthless)

19"(1600x1200) + 15.4"(1280x800)

I've come to the conclusion buying a desktop is worthless unless you're a
gamer, since the computer will be outdated in 6 months.. :slight_smile:

"Just buy a new laptop every 6 months :)"

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

Ruby is best used on a system which is LSB based, mainly because the 1.8.2 and
older versions don't have good support with mkmf.rb. I seen there are
improvement in new versions with the find lib/and includes with the new
version, but it is irritating when you have libraries in a odd directory.

I haven't installed Winows on any of my home/work computers in 5 years. I've
been a *nix guy. I've been using ubuntu/with KDE mainly because its the most
friendly and has the best package support. Even Java, mp3, etc packages are
on a remote repository which is not affiliated with Ubuntu, but is nice to
know someone has unofficial packages :slight_smile: I'd say something about FreeBSD or
NetBSD, but most people aren't competent enough to sit there and use a unix
based system. The OSes will definitely teach you how to use a *nix based
system and even as problems arise will teach you more about problems of
compilers and linkers.

Best of luck with your adventure to find a new distro.

// Tsume

···

On Tuesday 22 November 2005 02:12 am, Sam Kong wrote:

5

Sam Kong wrote:

Hello, Ruby people!

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.
Thus the people in this group can answer my question very well.
Also, I feel very comfortable with people in this group, even if I
don't know them personally.
(I feel like they are my friends.)
This question is not meant to bring flame wars!

I use Windows at my work and home.
Of course, I tried several linux OS's (RedHat, SUSE, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu) and this year I even purchased Mini Mac.
However, I haven't succeeded to make myself used to these OS's.

I have some questions to linux users and Mac users.

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

Both. Depending on the CPU of the machine, I tend to use a lighter-weight X Windows shell (Window Maker or Sawfish, say, rather than than full-blown KDE or Gnome) while calling apps mainly from the commandline. It makes it easier to have multiple stuff running, use gvim, run Firefox, and so on, while preserving CPU cycle for databases and Web servers.

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

I've managed to get Fedora core 3 (0r 4? I forget) on a somewhat older Toshiba Portege, and the trick for me was to read up on what was supported. So I had to use an older and slower linksys wifi card, but other than that Fedora (and I'm sure others) tend to be pretty good at getting installed correctly for the hardware. (Though generally I do not care if sound works; I have my preferred sound tools on Windows.)

James

···

--

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Ruby Code & Style - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
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http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools

6

Sam Kong wrote:

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

I use X Windows on Linux. But I'm old-school; I just open a bunch of xterms and work in the shell. I've done some UI development in Ruby using Glade, but I use text tools for coding.

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

I have Gentoo Linux working perfectly on a Dell Latitude D400: graphics, wireless, USB, everything. It required a good bit of work to get everything set up. This machine has Windows XP installed on it, but I have a complete Gentoo environment on half of a 40 GB notebook hard drive in an external USB 2.0 enclosure [1]. Plug it in, boot it up, and I'm good to go.

[1] http://www.vantecusa.com/moreimage/images/popout3_moreimage_01.jpg

Steve

7

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux,
do you use text-mode or graphic-mode?

I assume that you're talking about command-line mode vs. GUI mode.
I use Mac OS X, but the principle should be pretty much the same.
The command line (and associated tools) are complementary to the
GUI and its tools. I tend to keep a few Terminal windows around at
all times, but they may be hidden, depending on the task at hand.

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

The one-button mouse is very restrictive. I use a Kensington
Optical Elite mouse, which has four buttons and a clickable scroll
wheel. The driver supports chording, application-specific settings,
etc. I love it and have bought enough for all the local machines.

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

The last M$ OS I spent any time with was MS-DOS 3.2, which I used
by means of the Mortice Kern tool kit. I consider this to be a
success story (:-).

-r

···

At 2:12 AM +0900 11/22/05, Sam Kong wrote:
--
email: rdm@cfcl.com; phone: +1 650-873-7841
http://www.cfcl.com - Canta Forda Computer Laboratory
http://www.cfcl.com/Meta - The FreeBSD Browser, Meta Project, etc.

8

Hello, Ruby people!

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.
Thus the people in this group can answer my question very well.
Also, I feel very comfortable with people in this group, even if I
don't know them personally.
(I feel like they are my friends.)
This question is not meant to bring flame wars!

I use Windows at my work and home.
Of course, I tried several linux OS's (RedHat, SUSE, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu) and this year I even purchased Mini Mac.

Hi,

i use Ubuntu on my Mac Mini and it works really nice.

However, I haven't succeeded to make myself used to these OS's.

I have some questions to linux users and Mac users.

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

I use the standard GNOME desktop, that comes with Ubuntu and it is fast
enough (1,23 GHz, 1 GByte RAM).

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

The problem with laptops are often, that they use highly integrated chip
sets, where the manufactor don't release the specs. With laptops the
best way is to look what hardware ist supported (and what you really
need from the laptops hardware) und _then_ buy the laptop.

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

I use a logitec mouse on my mini, cause i see only one button as an
unneded limitation.

Cheers
detlef

···

On Di, 2005-11-22 at 02:12 +0900, Sam Kong wrote:

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

Thanks.

Sam

9

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

I usually use rxvt terminals in a lightweight window manager (Ion). I
could probably abandon my window manager for emacs in "text-mode," but
I'm too lazy.

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

Many people keep journals of what they had to do to get Linux running
on a particular laptop. I suggest you look into this for your laptop.
If you're planning on purchasing a laptop for linux use, make sure
you do the research first.

You can google for the laptop model and linux, or start off at one of
these sites:

http://www.tuxmobil.org/

With most laptops, you can at least get the vesa driver working, so
unless you need hardware acceleration, you should be fine on that
front.

I have had good success with Ubuntu on all hardware - it's
autodetection works quite well. However, reading on this thread,
people have had problems with the Ruby 1.8.3 packages, so you might
end up building your own ruby from source (I still use the old 1.8.2
packages, which work great). The default gnome setup (although I
don't use it) is also quite slick.

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

My Windows desktop stopped working, so I stopped using it, in favor of
my Linux desktop. Is that success?

···

On 11/21/05, Sam Kong <sam.s.kong@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Rob

10

Sam Kong wrote:

Hello, Ruby people!

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.
Thus the people in this group can answer my question very well.
Also, I feel very comfortable with people in this group, even if I
don't know them personally.
(I feel like they are my friends.)
This question is not meant to bring flame wars!

I use Windows at my work and home.
Of course, I tried several linux OS's (RedHat, SUSE, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu) and this year I even purchased Mini Mac.
However, I haven't succeeded to make myself used to these OS's.

I have some questions to linux users and Mac users.

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

Most developers I gues uses some sort of GUI (GNOME/KDE/WINDOW MAKER/....). When we discuss about Ruby developing some people feel
better using text tools like Emacs/Vi some are using kind of IDE: KDE Developer/Arachno/Eclipse RDT etc.
I prefer KDE with EMACS/Eclipse but it is just me:)

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

Well comming from Windows it is not as simple as many Linux fans would like it to be. Sometimes, I guess, they forgot about problems thay have had. Some are smart enough to underestimate problems normal people will fight against. Linux is not Windows at all. Installing linux is not as simple as windows becouse of those little tricks that everybody "should know".
Let me consider situation, installing video driver on Fedora:
1) Should I use NVidia script or Livna packages or standard ones? 3h of reading
2) When I install new kernel linux stops - why ? becouse boot was in grap. mode and old drivers is not working anymore. 3h of reading how to
install new driver, how to even switch from grap. boot to standard. etc.
3) Driver is not working properly - After 1h of reading google I have found that this version of NVidia driver is well.... a crap
4) and so on and so on. This same with music drivers, mounting drives,
using smb, installing printer, etc.
Hej people this is not the start point of discussion. What I am trying to say is: Linux is great but it hard (a little) to begin with.

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

Well. This is whole new world waiting for you. Depends on what person you are.
If you are develeper I assume you should be curious about linux. It so much better platform for writing code. I can not imagine working without linux bash or Emacs:)

Thanks.

Sam

Cheers, Jacek

11

I've had flawless and simple laptop installs with Ubuntu. It's a good
idea to try the live cd first to make sure the system works.

I've been able to get some not very Linux friendly laptops working
with Gentoo, but this is some degree more work.

Most *nix users do make heavy use of the command line, but usually via
some window manager. The one I've come to enjoy is XFCE4, but there
are a ton of different ones out there. So when you say text mode, I'm
not sure if you mean heavy reliance on command line apps or no WM at
all. In the case of no WM at all, I don't imagine you'll have
trouble getting any distro to this level.

Even still, most distros have improved greatly as far as laptop support goes.
I've got ubuntu working on my Mac via the live CD and installed it on
a few Dell and Gateway laptops. So... that I know works... others
probably will, too :slight_smile:

···

On 11/21/05, Sam Kong <sam.s.kong@gmail.com> wrote:

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

12

"Sam Kong" <sam.s.kong@gmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.ruby

Hello, Ruby people!

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.
Thus the people in this group can answer my question very well.
Also, I feel very comfortable with people in this group, even if I
don't know them personally.
(I feel like they are my friends.)
This question is not meant to bring flame wars!

I use Windows at my work and home.
Of course, I tried several linux OS's (RedHat, SUSE, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu) and this year I even purchased Mini Mac.
However, I haven't succeeded to make myself used to these OS's.

I have some questions to linux users and Mac users.

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

I have no idea about this because i am also a newbie in Ruby. I am
working on windows at this moment.

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

I installed the linux in my laptop. I use KDE, everything works very
well, wireless or ethernet, usb, even battery management. I think you may
try mandriva first because it is very easy to install and use, especially
in GUI applications. After you get used to linux, you can try your
favorite distribution.

···

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

Thanks.

Sam

13

Selon Sam Kong :

Hello, Ruby people!

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.
Thus the people in this group can answer my question very well.
Also, I feel very comfortable with people in this group, even if I
don't know them personally.
(I feel like they are my friends.)
This question is not meant to bring flame wars!

So far it has been quite a civilised discussion :slight_smile: .

I use Windows at my work and home.
Of course, I tried several linux OS's (RedHat, SUSE, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu) and this year I even purchased Mini Mac.
However, I haven't succeeded to make myself used to these OS's.

Force of habit is difficult to beat. I know the problem. After using an Amiga 1200 for years I've never been able to acclimate to the Windows desktop :wink: .

I have some questions to linux users and Mac users.

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

I personally have a Debian desktop with GNOME (graphic mode thus), but I'm thinking of trying something more lightweight. I'm lazy though and the performance I get is enough for my use. I use quite a few x-terms but they hardly ever stay up when I don't use them. I have no problem with the command line (my first computer had a BASIC prompt). I just use what I feel most comfortable with for the task at hand.

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

I don't have a laptop, but I can just repeat everyone's advice. You should check if a laptop is compatible with Linux before buying it. Unlike with Windows, hardware vendors still don't usually make drivers for Linux, and with laptops keep their specifications often secret. The only possibility is then for developers to reverse-engineer and build their own drivers. Of course, this way is difficult and error-prone. Given the uphill battle, the fact that you *can* get Linux to work on some laptops is already quite a feat :slight_smile: . The sites you've been pointed out to are great, and you can find plenty more by googling "linux compatibility" :wink: .

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

I don't have a Mac, but I'll talk about this here as it fits the subject. I ditched my mouse quite a while ago and took a trackball instead, and so far I'm thrilled. I only move my thumb and two fingers, so the rest of my arm can rest comfortably and I don't ever get RSI symptoms (I used to have some with my mouse). I also think with a laptop a trackball could be a good acolyte, as you don't need a big surface next to your laptop to move the mouse anymore. No forced to use the impractical tactile screen anymore when you are on the train :wink: .

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

I've switched last August (although I've wanted to do it for years, just too lazy to actually do it :wink: ) so my success story is still fresh :slight_smile: . I've installed Debian GNU/Linux in dual-boot with the original Windows ME of this computer. Installing was a bit of a problem, but only because I've had issues with the Nero burning my CDs wrong, and with the fact that the ADSL network in the Netherlands uses PPTP, a rarely used protocol, and I have an old ADSL modem which isn't a router, so I don't have DHCP (I'm moving to cable next week so that problem will be solved :wink: ), thus I couldn't use the netinstall.

But I eventually got the two install CDs to work, and it was a breeze. All the hardware of my Dell Dimension 4300 was recognised on the spot, I immediately got a graphical login manager (GDM), and logged into the GNOME desktop. There I added the finishing touches, like installing the pptp client I had downloaded earlier from Windows and configurating it (took a bit of googling to find the right way, because once again the Dutch ADSL network is anything but standard, but I eventually got it running).

Once Internet was on, I surprisingly never came back to Windows anymore. I still have to log on the Windows partition when something goes wrong, but for actual work and pleasure I exclusively use Debian. The change was overnight and I was myself astonished by it. Everything just makes so much sense to me! I've had since a few problems, but they are all to blame on myself tinkering things when I don't know enough about what I'm doing :wink: . However, I've always been able to repair my mistakes without a reinstall (and I have a Knoppix liveCD handy for if I ever break my GRUB conf file again :wink: ).

I've since done quite a few things, like compiling the NVIDIA support (a surprisingly painless experience on Debian, once you have installed module-assistant from Synaptic), adding the repositories to get mplayer and great multimedia support (better than what I had on Windows, and I fought for four years there to never get good support), switched to Xorg and installed a bunch of applications from Synaptic. I also update my Unstable box nearly every day, without a problem. I just pay attention to what I'm doing, but that's hardly more than 5 minutes a day.

So all in all I'm more than satisfied with the result. I get a more responsive box, great software, and can use a distribution whose ethics fit mine best. What more could I want? :wink:

···

--
Christophe Grandsire.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

You need a straight mind to invent a twisted conlang.

14

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

X for me is a tool to open more consoles and be able to switch quickly. It
also is nice to have pretty apps every once in a while.

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

Depends on the distro. Depends on the problem. Linux is not perfect, but
neither is any other OS I've ever used. Ubuntu specifically has a goal for
the next release that they're going to take 5 or so laptops and make them
work PERFECTLY with Ubuntu out of the box. As they continue to add other
laptops things will magically start working for the rest of us.

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

Control click works. What else works very well is to simply use a USB mouse
with right mouse button and scroll wheel. In fact, being that the Mini
didn't come with a mouse, you could have bought one with a right mouse button
and scroll wheel and not known the difference.

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

I really just migrated over time to Linux and then had to give mac a whirl.
I'm working right now on my Kubuntu laptop with a G5 sitting on the other
side. I feel alienated on Windows any more, because I simply don't know the
toolset very well. My job is writing Ruby code for Linux (KDE currently), so
life is good. There's really not a whole lot to say but start using it, and
you'll break it a few times, sure, but you'll learn and start feeling like
you mastered it too.

···

On Monday 21 November 2005 11:12, Sam Kong wrote:

15

I think that's an awful reason to ask here. This mailing list already
gets a couple of hundred messages per day (142 since I last looked about
15 hours ago), and is hard enough to follow as it is.

I would give a lot for a list that a) didn't have blatently off-topic
stuff, and b) restricted all members to one post per thread and one new
thread per day. As it is, too often I come in and just delete everything
because I don't have time to figure out what's worthwhile and what's not.

Ok, there's my complaint for the day. :slight_smile:

cjs

···

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005, Sam Kong wrote:

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.

--
Curt Sampson <cjs@cynic.net> +81 90 7737 2974
   Make up enjoying your city life...produced by BIC CAMERA

16

Hello, Ruby people!

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.
Thus the people in this group can answer my question very well.
Also, I feel very comfortable with people in this group, even if I
don't know them personally.
(I feel like they are my friends.)
This question is not meant to bring flame wars!

I use Windows at my work and home.
Of course, I tried several linux OS's (RedHat, SUSE, Debian, Gentoo,
Ubuntu) and this year I even purchased Mini Mac.
However, I haven't succeeded to make myself used to these OS's.

well, cannot say anything about mac - my overall-use of it comes to about...
well - 2 hours :slight_smile:
i just never got around to buy one of these things.

I have some questions to linux users and Mac users.

1. When you use Ruby on Linux or just in general on Linux, do you use
text-mode or graphic-mode?

both... it depends on the task at hand.
when i'm working on web-apps i my ubuntu-box is going to be the tool fo doing
it - i have KDE running (with 3d and all fancy stuff - even osx feeling :slight_smile: -
and i _love_ eye-candy from time to time.
The stuff i have running on it is Kontact (for RSS, mail and addressbook) -
gaim (for kopete is crashing all the time) and of course three different
editors, fitting for my tasks at hand. When i'm doing quick editing of some
stuff i use nano, wich saved me so far from learning both vi or emacs -
(actually i know a bit vi, but it is just enough for survival), when i'm
doing web-related stuff i tend to use Kate - and for heavy web-api-editing i
prefer JEdit, wich has excellent features and plugins for ruby (highlighting,
code-completion, rdoc-integration, automagically adding 'end' and some other
stuff [oh, almost forgot the code-browser that displays your classes/methods
in a nice way])
My console on this computer is yakuake, it just feels good to have your
console behaving like a quake one (but with having tabs for switching
around).
My equipment is a nice trackball (that has saved me from RSI) and one of those
highend-ergonomic-keyboards that just cry out to be used for coding ^^

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

right next to this box is the extreme opposite - a really minimal WM on top of
grml ( http://www.grml.org ) wich is a distribution for 'users of the
commandline and system-administrators' - i'm in love with it as well - it
runs on my laptop and serves me well when i'm traveling.
another use for it is IRC - wich is one of the permanent things that i have
open, as well as my music that i play using xmms... i rarely use the mouse on
this one at all, maybe on one of the rare occassions that i open a webpage on
it - but i can even control xmms without a mouse at all.
WIFI, sound, usb, burning cd/dvd... everything working fine on it.

3. For Mac users, do you feel OK with the simple mouse? Probably I'm
too accustomed to Windows mouse. Whenever I use Mac, I miss the
right-button and scroll-wheel.

If anybody has experience of moving from Windows to Linux or Mac,
please share the success story.

[ONLY READ THAT IF YOU HAVE LOTS OF TIME - I AM TIRED AND ONLY ENJOY MY
KEYBOARD WHILE TYPING THE STORY OF MY LIFE ;]

well, my little success-story is a quite long one - but everything started
with one of the first linux-live-cds that were ever released (i just cannot
remind what the name of it was) - for everyone reading gamestar since a long
time you might know it...
I tried it - installed it - used it - kicked it from my harddisk again.
the problem was that while it wasn't that bad - i just didn't know what do do
now - i tried to start some games that i had from windows but it didn't work
- so since my main-use for a computer was playing back then i went back to
windows... but with a big deal of critizism of what M$ was doing wrong...
So i was lurking around, always on the quest for a linux that i could use -
some day my brother brought me a copy of suse 6.4 - and i was overwhelmed
what had changed in the meanwhile (might have been 2 years) - compared to the
changes of windows (well - no changes at all)
since that day i'm a kde-monkey... i just never got used to the look'n'feel of
gnome.
while having linux was great - it still wasn't mature enough for me - crashing
stuff - bad sound-drivers and worst of all - no really addictive games :slight_smile:
so i used it for about a week and gave it a good-bye-wave after that.

After that experience i always waited for some distro that was ultimate...
later i tried suse 7.2 and finally it was what i searched for (or so i
thought) - after about a month of using it i was deeply disappointed - the
reason? RPM - after searching some days for all neccesary rpms for upgrading
your kde you don't laugh about it... after a while my skills in searching
rpms was getting better, but it still was less than satisfying...
some day i stumbled upon apt-rpm and found what i was searching for:
automagically searching for my dependencies.
It worked well, until it broke my system.

This was the day i decided to try the distro where the idea for apt-rpm was
from - that was debian.
downloading some cds and burning them was a matter of some hours - and when i
finally installed it, it was great!
apt-get install this that and this one as well

until i tried to compile stuff, wich worked for some time - but after a while
my system got messed up.
so i came to the conclusion that i would try yet another distro... after some
searching i found what i was looking for: gentoo - a distro made from source
for source.

gentoo was a great experience - it taught me a lot of stuff, how the internal
systems worked together, how to compile efficiently, what the stuff in / is
all about, how to edit configs... short - everything i needed to administrate
a linux-system fairly well.
It was a hard school, but i enjoyed it - some day ubuntu was appearing on the
horizont, and i have had enough of hours compiling stuff. I decided to get
back to apt-get, and so i came to kubuntu.

Installing it was a joy, everything was going smooth (i tried it on my laptop
before) - i had what i needed, after about a year of gentoo, finally no need
for intensive system-care anymore :slight_smile:

this was, until i realized how inefficient KDE for some tasks is - and i
decided to split it like what i have now - a design-overloaded
system-for-joy, and one for real crunching and relaxing. Now i'm almost at
the limit of my own effectivness and can say that the game i play now, is
linux and ruby :slight_smile:

I don't look back to windows at all, it was the most unproductive time in my
life.

···

Am Montag 21 November 2005 18:12 schrieb Sam Kong:

Thanks.

Sam

17

Rob Rypka wrote:
...

2. I've never succeeded to make my laptops work perfectly on Linux.
Sometimes, network card is not working, other times, USB is not
recognized, or Sound card is not working. I've tried on 5 different
laptops with different Linux but none was perfect. How do you overcome
this problem? Well... if you use just a text-mode, this might not be a
problem.

Many people keep journals of what they had to do to get Linux running
on a particular laptop. I suggest you look into this for your laptop.
If you're planning on purchasing a laptop for linux use, make sure
you do the research first.

Is it feasible (e.g., no jail time) to go to CompUSA or Fry's with a Knoppix disk and just try out some machines?

You can google for the laptop model and linux, or start off at one of
these sites:
http://www.linux-laptop.net/
http://www.tuxmobil.org/

You might also consider using VMWare on a Windows box. Less than optimim, but handy.

James

···

On 11/21/05, Sam Kong <sam.s.kong@gmail.com> wrote:

18

Most *nix users do make heavy use of the command line, but usually via
some window manager. The one I've come to enjoy is XFCE4, but there
are a ton of different ones out there. So when you say text mode, I'm
not sure if you mean heavy reliance on command line apps or no WM at
all. In the case of no WM at all, I don't imagine you'll have
trouble getting any distro to this level.

I have a WM in textmode.

From the manual page: "Screen is a full-screen window manager that
multiplexes a physical terminal between several processes (typically
interactive shells)."

But even under X + IceWM, I'm using lots and lots of xterms.

19

Curt Sampson wrote:

I would give a lot for a list that a) didn't have blatently off-topic
stuff, and b) restricted all members to one post per thread and one new
thread per day. As it is, too often I come in and just delete everything
because I don't have time to figure out what's worthwhile and what's not.

Curt, meet Usenet. Usenet, Curt.

I read comp.lang.ruby with Thunderbird. I can hide an entire thread (including this one) by typing "K". I do it frequently.

20

Curt Sampson wrote:

This is not about Ruby itself but about OS.
The reason that I ask this question in this group is that I've been
motivated to use other OS's than Windows by this group while I learned
Ruby.

I think that's an awful reason to ask here. This mailing list already
gets a couple of hundred messages per day (142 since I last looked about
15 hours ago), and is hard enough to follow as it is.

I would give a lot for a list that a) didn't have blatently off-topic
stuff,

But blatantly OT items usually have [OT] in the subject line, so filtering is trivial.

and b) restricted all members to one post per thread and one new
thread per day. As it is, too often I come in and just delete everything
because I don't have time to figure out what's worthwhile and what's not.

How about if we have to raise our hand to go to the bathroom, too?

Seriously, I often have problems scanning the new items to see what's worth perusing and what's not, but the use of filters and virtual folders in Thunderbird helps a great deal.

I learn all sorts of handy stuff quite unexpectedly, and figure if anything earthshaking is discussed, and I miss the thread, I'll hear about one way or another.

The accidental is part of the fun.

James

···

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005, Sam Kong wrote:

--

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Ruby Code & Style - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
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