Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more languages than I do. I have a simple document I need translated (from English to Korean). Does anyone know a good translation service they would recommend? Thanks in advance.
James Edward Gray II
James Edward Gray II wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more languages than I do. I have a simple document I need translated (from English to Korean). Does anyone know a good translation service they would recommend? Thanks in advance.
James Edward Gray II
with translate.google.com
화제 떨어져를 위해 유감스러운 이곤, 그러나 나 아십시오 그렇게 함으로 당 신의 많은 것은 나 보다는 언어를 더 알고 있다. 나는 나가 번역해 필요로 하 는 간단한 문서가 있다 (영어를 한국어로에서). 누군가는 그들이 추천할 좋은 번역 업무를 아는가? 미리 감사합니다.
제임스 Edward 회색 II
and back again
Topic it comes to tremble and hazard sensibility is boils, knows does with you the many thing sees compared to is knowing a language but like that. I to go out and there is a document which is simple it does in the necessity translate (English with from the Korean language). Does the troublesome army song their this will recommend know a good translation service? It thanks in advance.
James Edward gray II
---------
I hope you can find a better translator than google.
Regards
B
I am in the market for something similar. My most important concern
is that I can get something that I can automate. Most of the online
services have captcha protection or equivalent to stop bots or any
scripts from using them to translate.
My current need is to get something that you can test visually. The
mediocrity of online translations doesn't matter to me, and a basic
web service that can be automated would be worth paying for IMO,
on a subscription basis or similar.
Getting fully human translation is overkill and time consuming/costly
when all you want to do is test your BiDirectional text or verify if you
have complete translation coverage.
On 10/8/07, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more
languages than I do. I have a simple document I need translated
(from English to Korean). Does anyone know a good translation
service they would recommend? Thanks in advance.
If there's a largish university nearby, see if the grad student office
can put you in touch with a Korean student. I know that when I was at
Rice there were some grad students who used to do freelance
translation.
martin
On 10/7/07, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more
languages than I do. I have a simple document I need translated
(from English to Korean). Does anyone know a good translation
service they would recommend? Thanks in advance.
James Gray wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more
languages than I do. I have a simple document I need translated
(from English to Korean). Does anyone know a good translation
service they would recommend? Thanks in advance.James Edward Gray II
what about http://babelfish.altavista.com/
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.
Same exercise with babelfish.altavista.com:
화제떨어져를 위해 유감스러운 있음, 그러나 나 알십시요 그래서 너의 많은 것은 나보다는 언어를 더 있있다. 나는 나가 번역해
필요로 하는 간단한 문서가 있는다 (영어를 한국어로에서). 누군가는 그들이 추천할텐데 좋은가 번역 업무를 알는가? 미리의
감사.
Topic falling and hazard sensibility being and being, but or egg
ten:00 bedspreads being like that and and and you being many sees
language compared to is Iss. Me to go out and there is a document
which is simple it does in the necessity translate (English with from
the Korean language). Troublesome army song their this will recommend
theyn the place good translation service is the egg? In advance
thanks.
On 10/8/07, Brad Phelan <phelan@tttech.ttt> wrote:
James Edward Gray II wrote:
> Sorry for being off topic, but I know so many of you know more languages
> than I do. I have a simple document I need translated (from English to
> Korean). Does anyone know a good translation service they would
> recommend? Thanks in advance.
>
> James Edward Gray II
>with translate.google.com
화제 떨어져를 위해 유감스러운 이곤, 그러나 나 아십시오 그렇게 함으로 당
신의 많은 것은 나 보다는 언어를 더 알고 있다. 나는 나가 번역해 필요로 하
는 간단한 문서가 있다 (영어를 한국어로에서). 누군가는 그들이 추천할 좋은
번역 업무를 아는가? 미리 감사합니다.제임스 Edward 회색 II
and back again
Topic it comes to tremble and hazard sensibility is boils, knows does
with you the many thing sees compared to is knowing a language but like
that. I to go out and there is a document which is simple it does in the
necessity translate (English with from the Korean language). Does the
troublesome army song their this will recommend know a good translation
service? It thanks in advance.James Edward gray II
---------
--------
So, JEG II, by "translation service", do you mean something online, or
something where humans do the translating?
-A
My current need is to get something that you can test visually. The
mediocrity of online translations doesn't matter to me, and a basic
web service that can be automated would be worth paying for IMO,
on a subscription basis or similar.
Any reliable automated translation would be the Holy Grail of killer apps. Hasn't happened yet. Human language is far too implicit and fuzzy for computers.
Getting fully human translation is overkill and time consuming/costly
when all you want to do is test your BiDirectional text or verify if you
have complete translation coverage.
Overkill???
If you are serious about multi-lingual support, you don't rely on a machine for testing.
That's lazy, cheap, and pointless because it is a false effort.
Don't bother with that support if you don't intend to do it correctly.
Yes, sorry, I'm looking for humans, not machines.
James Edward Gray II
On Oct 8, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Alex LeDonne wrote:
So, JEG II, by "translation service", do you mean something online, or
something where humans do the translating?
You have misread my intent.
I am testing the internationalization strategy, not the end release to
users in whatever language.
So machine translations are sufficient to determine:
- whether everything communicated to users is coming from a resource
file
- whether the UI is doing things properly with bidirectional text, or
language-sensitive sorting & text insertion
- whether there is sufficient space in the UI for languages like, German
or Russian which are more verbose in terms of screen width, or if the
HTML is broken in ways that don't support dynamic sizing
- whether the resource lookup code (matching locales to the correct
bundle) is working right
- whether the HTML escaping works correctly across languages
- whether numeric formatting is being done correctly by locale
All of these are testable with machine translations. I would use the
results of this to change the internationalization strategy prior to
localization. Its not my code, the app is suspect in this regard, and
I would appreciate knowing if the strategy is broken now, rather than
in the 11th hour when it is being translated.
On 10/8/07, John Joyce <dangerwillrobinsondanger@gmail.com> wrote:
> Getting fully human translation is overkill and time consuming/costly
> when all you want to do is test your BiDirectional text or verify
> if you
> have complete translation coverage.
>
Overkill???
If you are serious about multi-lingual support, you don't rely on a
machine for testing.
That's lazy, cheap, and pointless because it is a false effort.
Don't bother with that support if you don't intend to do it correctly.
Interesting, though. You can almost understand another language from
more than one translation engine. Stress on the "almost".
It makes me think of another thing; that being: can you profile an IP address?
Todd
On 10/8/07, John Joyce <dangerwillrobinsondanger@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My current need is to get something that you can test visually. The
> mediocrity of online translations doesn't matter to me, and a basic
> web service that can be automated would be worth paying for IMO,
> on a subscription basis or similar.
>Any reliable automated translation would be the Holy Grail of killer
apps. Hasn't happened yet. Human language is far too implicit and
fuzzy for computers.
John Joyce wrote:
Any reliable automated translation would be the Holy Grail of killer apps. Hasn't happened yet. Human language is far too implicit and fuzzy for computers.
That reminds me of this article:
Machine translation might be closer than we think...
Daniel
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 01:35:45 +0900
Von: James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net>
An: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org
Betreff: Re: [OT] Translation Service
> So, JEG II, by "translation service", do you mean something online, or
> something where humans do the translating?Yes, sorry, I'm looking for humans, not machines.
James Edward Gray II
Dear James,
there are communities on the web where you can post
your job (you may even attach your document):
http://www.traduguide.com/
http://www.translatorsbase.com/
and get offers of human translators (and, alas, also of
people who've just learned that there are machine translations
available on the net - one joke about the 1950ies efforts
of US researchers trying to win the cold war without knowing
any Russian, as '"electronic brains" can do it for you', has it
that "out of mind, out of sight" translated into Russian and
back was rendered as "invisible idiot").
Depending on whether your document is a general text/letter/story
or something technical (i.e. legal, medical or programming),
prices will differ.
Especially if you need a certified translation with a stamp on
it, things become expensive.
Otherwise, you can choose one of the freelancers that will
surely respond also.
From the communities in the list above, my experience is that the ratio of freelancers tends to be higher in the last two, as the price level is
decreasing.
Pricing is generally done per source word. I don't know about pricing for English/Korean, but expect it to be higher than for translations
between European languages, which often is somewhere between 0.05 US$
and 0.10 US$ per source word. I wouldn't be surprised if a decent English/Korean translation were double that price.
Depending on whether you are able to check the quality of the translation
yourself or not, it might be a good idea to also post a proofreading job
for the translated text. For translations between European languages,
one often sees prices somewhere between 0.015 USD and 0.03 USD per source
word for this.
If you have a longer text, you could try to talk the translator into counting only the so-called non-match words for pricing, which are automatically counted by a translation memory tool, such as Trados or Wordfast. These tools help translators to keep track of what words they
used earlier for the same source word and thus save some typing.
People who use that software have spent several hundred dollars on it,
so they are less likely to be inexperienced.
Best regards,
Axel
On Oct 8, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Alex LeDonne wrote:
--
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Richard Conroy wrote:
I am testing the internationalization strategy, not the end release to
users in whatever language.
[...]
All of these are testable with machine translations.
Translation is not required for testing - you can just use lorem ipsum,
generated into bidir or other characters to the length you might need.
We tend to bracket each snippet with characters that are visually
recognisable, like , to aid in manual verification that the
translated text is being used and not the default English text.
It might be. there is some very very good software out there for particular language pairs, but it still requires human proofreading in most cases. But consider the type of writing tends to be a big factor. A chemistry paper will generally be a lot easier to translate than more conversational, casual writing. Still, the good translation software is pretty expensive and is rarely a solution by itself. Word for word translation rarely works due to words having multiple contextual uses and meanings and rarely having a 1 for 1 analog in another language.
As for testing, sure most algorithms are independent of the end user's language, but some things such as processing the text may be entirely dependent on the language. Input methods for Korean are quite different from those for Japanese and Chinese. A grammar or spelling checker would be totally lost on Japanese text most of the time. It is far too implicit.
But if your application doesn't do those things, it shouldn't matter much. Localization is simply setting up the interface to have common metaphors used in software in that language. Unfortunately, in some cases those things are pretty hard to translate well. In other cases they're transliterated.
On Oct 8, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Daniel DeLorme wrote:
John Joyce wrote:
Any reliable automated translation would be the Holy Grail of killer apps. Hasn't happened yet. Human language is far too implicit and fuzzy for computers.
That reminds me of this article:
Me Translate Pretty One Day | WIREDMachine translation might be closer than we think...
Daniel
All of this information was extremely valuable. Thanks so much!
James Edward Gray II
On Oct 8, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Axel Etzold wrote:
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 01:35:45 +0900
Von: James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net>
An: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org
Betreff: Re: [OT] Translation ServiceOn Oct 8, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Alex LeDonne wrote:
So, JEG II, by "translation service", do you mean something online, or
something where humans do the translating?Yes, sorry, I'm looking for humans, not machines.
James Edward Gray II
Dear James,
there are communities on the web where you can post
your job (you may even attach your document):TranslatorsCafe.com — a Place for Translators, Interpreters, Voice Talents, Other Language Professionals and Their Clients.
http://www.traduguide.com/
http://www.translatorsbase.com/
True. I would actually end up doing something like that because it is
then something that I can link into automated tests - scraping the
web UI for a regular expression is wonderfully simple with tools like
WATIR.
However, I know people in our company would be more confident with
something close to the bare metal (simplified chinese or equivalent).
Its close to our existing testing methods. It means that they don't have to
take a developers word for it (me). It also means that people other than
me can make a decision to pay for human translations for their own purposes
(get reviews/buy in from regional domain experts etc.).
So yeah, both needs are important, and simple watermarking of english
resources and using made-up locales is actually a better form of testing.
But actually making real translations means that nobody questions it.
Real translations (machine) are handy for other purposes too.
On 10/9/07, Clifford Heath <no@spam.please.net> wrote:
Richard Conroy wrote:
> I am testing the internationalization strategy, not the end release to
> users in whatever language.
> [...]
> All of these are testable with machine translations.Translation is not required for testing - you can just use lorem ipsum,
generated into bidir or other characters to the length you might need.
We tend to bracket each snippet with characters that are visually
recognisable, like , to aid in manual verification that the
translated text is being used and not the default English text.