so i’m developing a huge web app in Ruby and i’ve been using Mozilla. i have
been very careful to reduce potential cross-compatability issues. so i go to
run the app on IE to see how it fairs, and right off the bat i get an error.
turns out that IE does not submit a tag’s value attribute, but
rather tries to submit the entire innerHTML of the button! yes, that’s right,
the whole content, no matter what it is, ,
so i’m developing a huge web app in Ruby and i’ve been using Mozilla. i
whatever. how idiotic! i did a bit of research and this
have been very careful to reduce potential cross-compatability issues.
so i go to run the app on IE to see how it fairs, and right off the bat
i get an error. turns out that IE does not submit a tag’s value
attribute, but rather tries to submit the entire innerHTML of the
button! yes, that’s right, the whole content, no matter what it is,
,
was supposed to be fixed by IE5.5. well i just installed IE6 and it
still does it. It is such an obvious error that it amounts to a BLATANT
disregard for standards.so to hell with them. unless someone shows me a way to fix IE, my app is
simply not going to work on it and i don’t care.Welcome to the real world of web programming. I feel you. Once you get
some sleep and get over it, realize that you are cutting yourself off from
a huge segment of web users if you blow off IE. I’m sure you can find a
way around it. I’ve seen other posts from you and you seem to be a bright
guy.···
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:24:04 +0900 Tom Sawyer transami@transami.net wrote:
sorry, to rant, but i needed an outlet.
thanks,
tom sawyer, aka transami
transami@transami.net.''. .''. . *''* :_\/_: . :_\/_: _\(/_ .:.*_\/_* : /\ : .'.:.'..‘’.: /\ : ./)\ ‘:’* /\ * : ‘…’. -=:o:=-
:/:‘.:::. | ’ ‘’ * ‘.'/.’ (/’.‘:’.’
: /\ : ::::: = / -= o =- /)\ ’ *
‘…’ ‘:::’ === * /\ * .‘/.'. ‘._____
* | … : |. |’ .—"|
* | _ .–’| || | _| |
* | .-‘| __ | | | || |
.-----. | |’ | || | | | | | || |
__’ ’ /“\ | '-.”". ‘-’ ‘-.’ '` |.–
“Daniel P. Zepeda” <daniel@z,e,p,e,d,a,-,z,o,n,e.net>
(Remove commas for address)
so i’m developing a huge web app in Ruby and i’ve been using Mozilla. i have
whatever. how
been very careful to reduce potential cross-compatability issues. so i go to
run the app on IE to see how it fairs, and right off the bat i get an error.
turns out that IE does not submit a tag’s value attribute, but
rather tries to submit the entire innerHTML of the button! yes, that’s right,
the whole content, no matter what it is,,
idiotic! i did a bit of research and this was supposed to be fixed by IE5.5.
well i just installed IE6 and it still does it. It is such an obvious error
that it amounts to a BLATANT disregard for standards.so to hell with them. unless someone shows me a way to fix IE, my app is
simply not going to work on it and i don’t care.<button onclick=“some_js_function_to_DTRT()” …>
sorry, to rant, but i needed an outlet.
PS: What building is this?
>>>
vvv···
Tom Sawyer (transami@transami.net) wrote:
.''. .''. . *''* :_\/_: . :_\/_: _\(/_ .:.*_\/_* : /\ : .'.:.'..‘’.: /\ : ./)\ ‘:’* /\ * : ‘…’. -=:o:=-
:/:‘.:::. | ’ ‘’ * ‘.'/.’ (/’.‘:’.’
: /\ : ::::: = / -= o =- /)\ ’ *
‘…’ ‘:::’ === * /\ * .‘/.'. ‘._____
* | … : |. |’ .—"|
* | _ .–’| || | _| |
* | .-‘| __ | | | || |
.-----. | |’ | || | | | | | || |
__’ ’ /“\ | '-.”". ‘-’ ‘-.’ '` |.–
Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://segment7.net
All messages signed with fingerprint:
FEC2 57F1 D465 EB15 5D6E 7C11 332A 551C 796C 9F04
<button onclick=“some_js_function_to_DTRT()” …>
thanks! what’s DTRT stand for? so basically i have to use javascript to adjust
a hidden form field then submit. yes? i’ll do it (ugh), but its going to wait
til the very end.
sorry, to rant, but i needed an outlet.
thanks
PS: What building is this?
looks like seattle. but i’m not the art’st so perhaps its elsewheres. i just
thought it was really nice ascii art so i added to my signiture file for a
little while. (ran across it on another mailing list, but i don’t recall
where off-hand)
···
On Sunday 19 January 2003 02:41 pm, Eric Hodel wrote:
vvv.''. .''. . *''* :_\/_: . :_\/_: _\(/_ .:.*_\/_* : /\ : .'.:.'..‘’.: /\ : ./)\ ‘:’* /\ * : ‘…’. -=:o:=-
:/:‘.:::. | ’ ‘’ * ‘.'/.’ (/’.‘:’.’
: /\ : ::::: = / -= o =- /)\ ’ *‘…’ ‘:::’ === * /\ * .‘/.'. ‘._____
* | … : |. |’ .—"|
* | _ .–’| || | _| |
* | .-‘| __ | | | || |
.-----. | |’ | || | | | | | || |
__’ ’ /“\ | '-.”". ‘-’ ‘-.’ '` |.
–
tom sawyer, aka transami
transami@transami.net
question - what are you using to develop it on? mod-ruby? radical?
just wondering if any of the ‘web frameworks’ are more ‘de facto
standard’ than others…
tia
dim
···
Tom Sawyer (transami@transami.net) wrote:
so i’m developing a huge web app in Ruby and i’ve been using Mozilla.
<button onclick=“some_js_function_to_DTRT()” …>
thanks! what’s DTRT stand for? so basically i have to use javascript to adjust
a hidden form field then submit. yes? i’ll do it (ugh), but its going to wait
til the very end.
Do The Right Thing. You may even have to build a ‘fake’ form for
IE using the DOM, fill it in as you want it, then submit that. Really
butt-ugly.
PS: What building is this?
looks like seattle. but i’m not the art’st so perhaps its elsewheres. i just
thought it was really nice ascii art so i added to my signiture file for a
little while. (ran across it on another mailing list, but i don’t recall
where off-hand)
Just curious, as I’m a Seattlite
···
Tom Sawyer (transami@transami.net) wrote:
On Sunday 19 January 2003 02:41 pm, Eric Hodel wrote:
–
Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://segment7.net
All messages signed with fingerprint:
FEC2 57F1 D465 EB15 5D6E 7C11 332A 551C 796C 9F04
thanks! what’s DTRT stand for? so basically i have to use javascript
(DTRT = Do The Right Thing)
looks like seattle. but i’m not the art’st so perhaps its elsewheres. i just
thought it was really nice ascii art so i added to my signiture file for a
little while. (ran across it on another mailing list, but i don’t recall
where off-hand)
Not to be a pedant, but it’s a big larger than the generally accepted limit of
4 lines for a signature.
PS: What building is this?
looks like seattle. but i’m not the art’st so perhaps its elsewheres.
Any chance it might be Toronto?
That tall structure looks more like the CN Tower to me than the Needle of
Seattle. Also, that structure just left of it could be the Sky Dome.
:/:‘.:::. | ’ ‘’ * ‘.'/.’ (/’.‘:’.’
: /\ : ::::: = / -= o =- /)\ ’ *‘…’ ‘:::’ === * /\ * .‘/.'. ‘._____
* | … : |. |’ .—"|
* | _ .–’| || | _| |
* | .-‘| __ | | | || |
.-----. | |’ | || | | | | | || |
__’ ’ /“\ | '-.”". ‘-’ ‘-.’ '` |.
^ ^
> >
Sky Dome CN Tower
Then again, I’m Torontonian, so I guess I like it to be Toronto.
···
On Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 06:50:49AM +0900, Tom Sawyer wrote:
–
Daniel Carrera
Graduate Teaching Assistant. Math Dept.
University of Maryland. (301) 405-5137
mod_ruby with eruby. i only recently heard of radical and haven’t looked into
it. i needed speed b/c the app has lots of data flying around. i like amrita,
but was informed that speed is not its forte.
i have created my own framework that makes it fairly easy to build database
driven web apps. i’ve called it Jigsaw and it sits on top of mod_ruby and
eruby, although strictly speaking most of it can be used with out them. i
plan to release it under the LGPL when my apps finished (the app itself is
proprietary). Jigsaw’s pretty nice and i think others will find it useful
too.
···
On Sunday 19 January 2003 08:21 pm, Dmitri Colebatch wrote:
Tom Sawyer (transami@transami.net) wrote:
so i’m developing a huge web app in Ruby and i’ve been using Mozilla.
question - what are you using to develop it on? mod-ruby? radical?
just wondering if any of the ‘web frameworks’ are more ‘de facto
standard’ than others…tia
dim
–
tom sawyer, aka transami
transami@transami.net
.''.
.''. . *''* :_\/_: .
:_\/_: _\(/_ .:.*_\/_* : /\ : .'.:.'.
.‘’.: /\ : ./)\ ‘:’* /\ * : ‘…’. -=:o:=-
:/:‘.:::. | ’ ‘’ * ‘.'/.’ (/’.‘:’.’
: /\ : ::::: = / -= o =- /)\ ’ *
‘…’ ‘:::’ === * /\ * .‘/.'. ‘._____
* | … : |. |’ .—"|
* | _ .–’| || | _| |
* | .-‘| __ | | | || |
.-----. | |’ | || | | | | | || |
__’ ’ /“\ | '-.”". ‘-’ ‘-.’ '` |.
i knew someone would bring that up. well it’s temporary, i change it from time
to time, so i didn’t think having it big for a bit would be too big of a
deal. besides, it’s a very pleasant pic.
···
On Sunday 19 January 2003 02:56 pm, Mike Campbell wrote:
thanks! what’s DTRT stand for? so basically i have to use javascript
(DTRT = Do The Right Thing)
looks like seattle. but i’m not the art’st so perhaps its elsewheres. i
just thought it was really nice ascii art so i added to my signiture file
for a little while. (ran across it on another mailing list, but i don’t
recall where off-hand)Not to be a pedant, but it’s a big larger than the generally accepted
limit of 4 lines for a signature.
–
tom sawyer, aka transami :: transami@transami.net
_ *
-a little one just for you 
Thats what i thought at first, but then i remembered seeing the sideview of the city with the fireworks in “Frasier” (a comedy show for those not living in north america). The show is set in Seattle.
···
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:47:57 +0900 Daniel Carrera dcarrera@math.umd.edu wrote:
On Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 06:50:49AM +0900, Tom Sawyer wrote:
PS: What building is this?
looks like seattle. but i’m not the art’st so perhaps its elsewheres.
Any chance it might be Toronto?
That tall structure looks more like the CN Tower to me than the Needle of
Seattle. Also, that structure just left of it could be the Sky Dome.
–
To call me “awesome” is an understatement.
Tom Sawyer wrote:
so i’m developing a huge web app in Ruby and i’ve been using Mozilla.
question - what are you using to develop it on? mod-ruby? radical?
[snip]mod_ruby with eruby. i only recently heard of radical and haven’t looked into
it. i needed speed b/c the app has lots of data flying around. i like amrita,
but was informed that speed is not its forte.i have created my own framework that makes it fairly easy to build database
driven web apps. i’ve called it Jigsaw and it sits on top of mod_ruby and
eruby, although strictly speaking most of it can be used with out them. i
plan to release it under the LGPL when my apps finished (the app itself is
proprietary). Jigsaw’s pretty nice and i think others will find it useful
too.
thanks for the response. I’ll have a look at amrita and look forward to
seeing Jigsaw when its out!
while I’m asking questions - what about persistence frameworks… I’m
developing a little web-app for my own educational purposes, atm I’m
using PStore for persistence, which works fine, but I’m going to run
into some pretty serious performance problems I imagine. Are there any
O/R mapping frameworks, or other persistence solutions around?
cheers, and thanks again
dim
Amrita is the ultimate in code/markup separation - The template can be 100%
valid HTML since there are no special tags. Thus, elegance and code
readability are its fortes, rather than speed. The speed is probably
acceptable on a high-end hosted web server, but on my poor personal server it
takes up to two seconds to serve a page. However, the next generation of
Amrita is featuring a rewritten template compiler with speed and optimization
in mind; speed is traded off for some of the flexibility of the old compiler,
of course, but not losing any of the core functionality that makes Amrita
brilliant. Therefore, I look forward in eager anticipation to the next
generation Amrita, and if you’re at all interested in templating, you should
too since Amrita’s approach is one of the best I’ve seen.
Tim Bates
···
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 03:10 pm, Tom Sawyer wrote:
mod_ruby with eruby. i only recently heard of radical and haven’t looked
into it. i needed speed b/c the app has lots of data flying around. i like
amrita, but was informed that speed is not its forte.
–
tim@bates.id.au
If it’s “one of the best” you’ve seen, what else is up there?
Gavin
···
On Monday, January 20, 2003, 3:56:49 PM, Tim wrote:
Amrita is the ultimate in code/markup separation - The template can be 100%
valid HTML since there are no special tags. Thus, elegance and code
readability are its fortes, rather than speed. The speed is probably
acceptable on a high-end hosted web server, but on my poor personal server it
takes up to two seconds to serve a page. However, the next generation of
Amrita is featuring a rewritten template compiler with speed and optimization
in mind; speed is traded off for some of the flexibility of the old compiler,
of course, but not losing any of the core functionality that makes Amrita
brilliant. Therefore, I look forward in eager anticipation to the next
generation Amrita, and if you’re at all interested in templating, you should
too since Amrita’s approach is one of the best I’ve seen.
As Tim says, Amrita is really moving forward-- I’ve really seen the interest
in it grow, here and on the amrita-users mailing list.
That said, if anyone would like to contribute-to/talk-about Amrita in more
detail, please feel free to join the Amrita users group by visiting:
http://www.brain-tokyo.jp/research/amrita/
and continue to support Nakajima-san as this wonderful resource matures.
Several other useful and interesting templating libraries are discussed,
including :
misen by SHIRAI Kaoru (at v0.10)
xtemplate by TATEISHI Takaaki (at v0.30)
// Bruce
···
On Sunday 19 January 2003 11:56 pm, Tim Bates wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 03:10 pm, Tom Sawyer wrote:
mod_ruby with eruby. i only recently heard of radical and haven’t looked
into it. i needed speed b/c the app has lots of data flying around. i
like amrita, but was informed that speed is not its forte.Amrita is the ultimate in code/markup separation - The template can be 100%
valid HTML since there are no special tags. Thus, elegance and code
readability are its fortes, rather than speed. The speed is probably
acceptable on a high-end hosted web server, but on my poor personal server
it takes up to two seconds to serve a page. However, the next generation of
Amrita is featuring a rewritten template compiler with speed and
optimization in mind; speed is traded off for some of the flexibility of
the old compiler, of course, but not losing any of the core functionality
that makes Amrita brilliant. Therefore, I look forward in eager
anticipation to the next generation Amrita, and if you’re at all interested
in templating, you should too since Amrita’s approach is one of the best
I’ve seen.Tim Bates
–
Bruce R. Williams :: [iusris/#ruby-lang] :: http://www.codedbliss.com
‘It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds.’
– Samuel Adams
I’d recommend looking at Prevayler, it’s a very easy
solution to most persistence problems.
There is a Ruby port, Mnemonic, but you can write your
own Prevayler port in a few hours if you need to.
···
— Dmitri Colebatch dim@colebatch.com wrote:
while I’m asking questions - what about persistence
frameworks… I’m
developing a little web-app for my own educational
purposes, atm I’m
using PStore for persistence, which works fine, but
I’m going to run
into some pretty serious performance problems I
imagine. Are there any
O/R mapping frameworks, or other persistence
solutions around?
=====
Anders Bengtsson ndrsbngtssn@yahoo.se
Stockholm, Sweden
Gratis e-mail resten av livet på www.yahoo.se/mail
Busenkelt!
You know, I always check to see if the fireworks display changed…
no luck so far.
Anyone up to code a dynamic firework display in Ruby?
Feed in the ASCII skyline and get a different one each time…
that would be a real killer app 
s.
···
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:12:15 +0900, Tom Sawyer transami@transami.net wrote:
On Sunday 19 January 2003 02:56 pm, Mike Campbell wrote:
thanks! what’s DTRT stand for? so basically i have to use javascript
(DTRT = Do The Right Thing)
looks like seattle. but i’m not the art’st so perhaps its elsewheres. i
just thought it was really nice ascii art so i added to my signiture file
for a little while. (ran across it on another mailing list, but i don’t
recall where off-hand)Not to be a pedant, but it’s a big larger than the generally accepted
limit of 4 lines for a signature.i knew someone would bring that up. well it’s temporary, i change it from time
to time, so i didn’t think having it big for a bit would be too big of a
deal. besides, it’s a very pleasant pic.
I agree, there’s not much that compares, but anything that gets the code out
of the template (like properly written PHP) is good; for example there is a
PHP module called bTemplate that works by putting pseudo-xhtml tags within
the template - good, but it still doesn’t validate as HTML the way an Amrita
template does. Amrita is in a class of its own.
Tim Bates
···
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 03:35 pm, Gavin Sinclair wrote:
If it’s “one of the best” you’ve seen, what else is up there?
–
tim@bates.id.au
Mnemonic looks good, but there has been no new version since Jan 2002. It
still uses Lapidary for its test cases. Does anyone know of any current
projects that do similar things? RAA/Library/Database reveals nothing else of
the sort; the rest are interfaces to ‘real’ databases, rather than object
persistence. The closest I’ve seen is db-backed (which doesn’t seem to be in
RAA) which uses a ‘real’ database to implement a sort of object persistence,
but requires extending a given base class etc which Mnemonic (and Prevayler)
don’t require you to do.
Tim Bates
···
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:28 pm, Anders Bengtsson wrote:
I’d recommend looking at Prevayler, it’s a very easy
solution to most persistence problems.
There is a Ruby port, Mnemonic, but you can write your
own Prevayler port in a few hours if you need to.
–
tim@bates.id.au
Prevayler is a very interesting idea, but it isn’t a full purpose solution. i
would love to be able to use something like this but i have tables that are
multiple hundreds of megabytes each. i’d run out of memory pretty quick.
but it did get me thinking that it would be neat is Ruby could cache its
ObjectSpace to disk, or more exactly, if it could track object usage and
cache the objects with oldest/least use. then Ruby in and of itself could be
persistent, and work as a general purpose soultion.
thought?
-transami
···
On Monday 20 January 2003 04:58 am, Anders Bengtsson wrote:
I’d recommend looking at Prevayler, it’s a very easy
solution to most persistence problems.
There is a Ruby port, Mnemonic, but you can write your
own Prevayler port in a few hours if you need to.