Organizing our efforts, as well as the modules itself

ruby-talk
1

WOW! It’s amazing to me to see such passion about the organization of a Web
site. I am new to Ruby, and as a result, new to this discussion group. I
posted for the first time yesterday (and recieved an excellent resolution to
my problem). I also noticed Outlook was sending in Outlook Rich Text Format
to the list, so I hope I have made the appropriate changes otherwise it’s
a pain when reading via the web site.

I did go to the discussion list web site (which I find INCREDIBLY slow) and
read a the last few days of posts. This organization of the modules seems
to be a hot topic and I do have a few observations, comments, and a few
opinions.

First, I would like to start off with a few questions since I’m jumping in
the middle here (Although, over time it will feel more like the beginning
:).

I hope my questions, comments, etc… are valuable–that is my goal. I am a
marketing person by profession, but I love to develop in perl and Java. So,
you can see why I love Ruby – I am finding that it has some of the best of
both worlds (with a lot of potential). I hope nobody minds my pointed
questions and comments, especially since they are UNinvited.

My questions, comments, and opinions…

  1. Who is /responsible/ for the actual DESIGN of the reorganization? (not
    necessarily the web development)
    a) Has anyone asked/been assigned this responsibility?
    b) Who is the final decision maker(s) (after evaluating the excellent
    suggestions from the list)
    c) Who will do the development?

  2. If noone already has, it seems it would be productive if someone (or
    perhaps 2 people) volunteer to fill the lead role in finding available
    domains for ruby. It does not necessarily have to be regiestered in this
    person’s name, nor should they have to pay for it. I’ll pony up a few bucks
    myself. Once a domain czar is appointed, we all could send off-list emails
    with suggestions to them. After determining the best 5-10 that are
    available to us, the domain czar would post a list and we can do quick vote.
    Also, can we set a date for this to be complete? I’d suggest 30 days from
    now.

  3. Has the target audience for the RAA web site (is this the right way to
    refer to it?) been clearly defined? It seems that until that is done, it
    will be difficult, if not impossible to come to a consensus on the best
    design.

  4. I am comparing to CPAN, because it is something for us to all relate to
    and base our discission on it’s strengths and weaknesses. This is an
    opinion, but I feel strongly about it. The CPAN web site sucks. I give it
    an F. The CPAN module rocks in terms of features, but sucks in terms of
    usability. In my humble opinion it is somewhat cryptic and could use a nice
    GUI. If there is a GUI, I have not seen it, but would consider retracting
    my comments about it’s usability.

  5. In terms of the hiearchy of CPAN and its modules, I have no real opinion.
    I see this as decisions to made by the hard core developers who use it
    everyday. But, I believe the GUI design and A web site design needs to
    have input from newbie developers, NON-developers, and people who are
    interested in marketing the use of the language and not just using it for
    development. Please note I said A web design above, because of course
    there should also be a web design primarily for developers.

I also think these designs might need to be separate discussions threads –
even if some of the same people are involved in both. Should we get some
folks to volunteer for each group and come back with a few proposals
(specifications)? I think we should be able to complete this in less than a
week or two.

And of course search should be right on top of the web page, and a link to
an advanced search.

  1. Modules need the ability to be indexed for multiple categories. I
    think this is apparent to all of us. I think 3 is a fine place to start and
    we can allow for more/less as time goes on. Perhaps we can also have a
    ’keywords’ attribute for each module. This field can be indexed and
    searched and we can determine if the results of keyword matches appear above
    or below the resulting matches for module categories. Perhaps it’s a search
    option in “Advanced Search” :).

  2. Can we create a few different discussion lists? I suggest a different
    list for:

  • the development of the Ruby language itself
  • the RAA archives, marketing the language,etc…
  • Ruby language questions/answers
    – This is a start to be more user friendly in my opinion.

Sorry for the long post. Again I just want to be helpful in promoting Ruby
and locating documentation for it --which is a challenge for me already. :slight_smile:

-Dwayne

2

Hi Dwayne,

I’ll try to address your comments.

I hope my questions, comments, etc… are valuable–that is my goal. I
am a marketing person by profession, but I love to develop in perl and
Java.

I’m sure that Ruby can benefit much from your experience.

  1. Who is /responsible/ for the actual DESIGN of the reorganization?
    (not necessarily the web development)
    a) Has anyone asked/been assigned this responsibility?
    b) Who is the final decision maker(s) (after evaluating the
    excellent suggestions from the list)
    c) Who will do the development?

Nakamura Hiroshi (NaHi) seems to be encharged of RAA. I could be wrong.
I’m sure that there are other people involved. I figure that he must be
the final decision maker.

The RAA team would do the development. I am willing to help, and others
probably are too.

  1. If noone already has, it seems it would be productive if someone
    (or perhaps 2 people) volunteer to fill the lead role in finding
    available domains for ruby.

Do you mean actually purchasing new domain names and then voting on
which one we like?
Shouldn’t we make a list of the available ones, then vote, then purchase?

  1. Has the target audience for the RAA web site (is this the right way
    to refer to it?) been clearly defined? It seems that until that is
    done, it will be difficult, if not impossible to come to a consensus
    on the best design.

You can call it RAA.

The target audience is probably “anyone who develops in Ruby”.
On a second level I’d put people looking for programs made with Ruby.

This is probably about as clear as we’re going to get.

  1. … But, I believe the GUI design and A web site design needs to
    have input from newbie developers, NON-developers, and people who are
    interested in marketing the use of the language and not just using it
    for development.

I agree with “newgie developers”. But how can a computer language be used
by non developers? As for “marketing”, how would you use RAA for
marketing Ruby? I’d like to know.

Please note I said A web design above, because of course there
should also be a web design primarily for developers.

Wouldn’t it be confusing to have two different RAA’s?
Do you think it’s possible to provide all features in the same place?

For example:
Suppose that most “developers” want a powerful search and
“non developers” want to browse. The main page could have browsing
features, and at the top an simple search with a link to
“advanced search”.

I think that this is the best design decision. Inevitably, some “non
developers” will perfer to search and some “developers” will prefer to
browse.

  1. Can we create a few different discussion lists? I suggest a
    different list for:
  • the development of the Ruby language itself

Already exists. It’s ruby-core@ruby-lang.org.

  • the RAA archives, marketing the language,etc…
  • Ruby language questions/answers
    – This is a start to be more user friendly in my opinion.

I’m not sure that the Ruby community is large enough to have an discussion
list dedicated to RAA. For questions/answers, there is ruby-talk.

Sorry for the long post. Again I just want to be helpful in promoting
Ruby and locating documentation for it --which is a challenge for me
already. :slight_smile:

I appreciate your help. I really want to promote Ruby better.

···

–
Daniel Carrera
Graduate Teaching Assistant. Math Dept.
University of Maryland. (301) 405-5137

3

Hi, Dwayne,

Thank you for your comment. I try to answer your question about
current RAA. But please take care that I’m writing about RAA site,
not about whole www.ruby-lang.org site, thought of couce some of your
suggestion must be valuable for www.ruby-lang.org developer.

First of all, here is my brief summary of Ruby’s home page and RAA.
Bear in mind that it’s a summary based on my memory and ML archive.
Some significant history must be ignored. Comments are welcomed.

(1998-12: ruby-talk ML opened.)

  • 1999-09-22: Matz got a domain www.ruby-lang.org and called for web
    administrators. [ruby-list:17000]
    This is the roots of www-admin@ruby-lang.org members now.
    Administrators built web site at the beginning of 1999-11.

  • 1999-12-14: Matz wrote RAA software to allow developers register
    their application by themself. [ruby-list:19484], [ruby-talk:986]
    English version only. No Japanese localized version of RAA was
    prepared after that.

(Many RAA.succ discussions in ruby-list and ruby-talk :slight_smile:

I’m NaHi, one of a developer of current RAA.

From: “Dwayne Smurdon @ DNA Media Pro” smurdon@dnamediapro.com
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 3:53 PM

  1. Who is /responsible/ for the actual DESIGN of the reorganization? (not
    necessarily the web development)
    a) Has anyone asked/been assigned this responsibility?

Matz, usa and NaHi.

b) Who is the final decision maker(s) (after evaluating the excellent
suggestions from the list)

We always discuss important changes via e-mail.

c) Who will do the development?

Usa and NaHi. All codes are in CVS repository.
Contact us at www-admin@ruby-lang.org if you want to join.
Suggestions will be welcomed at here (ruby-talk).

  1. If noone already has,

N/A

  1. Has the target audience for the RAA web site (is this the right way to
    refer to it?) been clearly defined? It seems that until that is done, it
    will be difficult, if not impossible to come to a consensus on the best
    design.

Developer, but may not be enough clear for now. RAA ‘Application’
section may have to be targeted to users who don’t know what Ruby is.

Thank you for comment 4-7.

Sorry for my Japanglish.

Regards,
// NaHi

4

That’d be the ‘Application’ part of RAA. A supplementary website
focusing on finished applications might not be a bad idea, actually. It
could also allow for user comments a la freshmeat.

martin

···

Daniel Carrera dcarrera@math.umd.edu wrote:

I agree with “newgie developers”. But how can a computer language be used
by non developers? As for “marketing”, how would you use RAA for

5

It’s “engrish” :wink:

Anyway, you have no reason to apologise. Your posts are actually a
lot easier to read than some native English speakers here, because
they take no care with their presentation.

Most of us would be nowhere, ruby-wise, without the continual
efforts of Japanese folk, so thank you!

Cheers,
Gavin

···

On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, 2:07:18 PM, Hiroshi-san wrote:

Sorry for my Japanglish.