How to fund an open-source project?

In the recent thread on Ruby VMs I mentioned my newly launched RubyGoLightly project [0], currently a bit of non-compilable vapourware forked from Marc-Andre Cournoyer's TinyRb codebase. Whilst Google's public release of Go is directly responsible for my taking the plunge on this, the general idea is something I've discussed privately with a number of people in the community over the past couple of years.

Part of the goal of this project is to get Ruby working in the Google Go environment as I believe the concurrency model it offers will allow implementation choices which are either unavailable or poorly supported in C or C++, and which would be unusual in Java. However my real interest - and this may or may not be feasible - is to help move Ruby into the real-time arena.

It's potentially a big project and I'd like to be able to work on it full-time so as to make reasonable progress in the coming year but I'm completely clueless about how to raise sponsorship or even whether that's practical. Does anyone with greater experience of driving an OSS project have any advice they're willing to share on this or any related topics?

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net
[0] http://github.com/feyeleanor/RubyGoLightly

···

----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason

When it comes to grassroots efforts, I guess my "Ruby Mendicant"
project stands out:
http://majesticseacreature.com/mendicant/

But I think that the environment is different these days, and I
struggled to get funding for the Unity project, even though I thought
this was a cool project as well:

http://pledgie.com/campaigns/4640

I did end up doing at least as much work as that $270 paid for, but
the project got sidelined due to having to pay the bills with other
persuits...

So I guess what I'm suggesting is that it might not be worth it to try
too hard to do this grassroots with the way things are lately. Even
with my success story of Ruby Mendicant, I was living at a subsistence
level off of the donations and needed to take on occasional
contracting work to supplement.

Better to go try to get yourself hired by Engineyard or something... :-/
Or save up some money and take a few months off.

At any rate, I'm happy to discuss this further if you're still
interested in the idea of getting community sponsorship. But
realistically, it'd be best to find a company willing to pay for your
work, as much as I hate to say that.

-greg

···

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Eleanor McHugh <eleanor@games-with-brains.com> wrote:

It's potentially a big project and I'd like to be able to work on it full-time so as to make reasonable progress in the coming year but I'm completely clueless about how to raise sponsorship or even whether that's practical. Does anyone with greater experience of driving an OSS project have any advice they're willing to share on this or any related topics?

Is progress more important, or hacking on it?

If the former, do what other OSS projects do, find volunteers, and share the workload. That should be comparatively easy, but requires a lot of public relation work which can be quite Non Fun. Then there's the collaboration tools that'll be required, and you can find yourself doing managerial stuff full time instead of, well, doing the fun bits.

···

On 18.12.2009 00:19, Eleanor McHugh wrote:

It's potentially a big project and I'd like to be able to work on it full-time so as to make reasonable progress in the coming year but I'm completely clueless about how to raise sponsorship or even whether that's practical. Does anyone with greater experience of driving an OSS project have any advice they're willing to share on this or any related topics?

--
Phillip Gawlowski

Naturally I'm also looking for collaborators but I'll admit to being something of a lone wolf as I'm used to working solo on ambitious but underfunded commercial projects. It's not that I don't trust other people to pull their weight, just that it's a luxury I've never had!

Managerial stuff definitely isn't something I want to spend too much time on though as I suspect just publicising this project will eat into my time - I'm already thinking that it's likely to be something I'll want to talk about at conferences next year and having done five of those this year I know how much time that will eat up. However I'm sort of crossing my fingers and hoping that for a small team the combo of github and wave will be enough to coordinate things. I guess time will tell.

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net

···

On 18 Dec 2009, at 07:11, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

On 18.12.2009 00:19, Eleanor McHugh wrote:

It's potentially a big project and I'd like to be able to work on it full-time so as to make reasonable progress in the coming year but I'm completely clueless about how to raise sponsorship or even whether that's practical. Does anyone with greater experience of driving an OSS project have any advice they're willing to share on this or any related topics?

Is progress more important, or hacking on it?

If the former, do what other OSS projects do, find volunteers, and share the workload. That should be comparatively easy, but requires a lot of public relation work which can be quite Non Fun. Then there's the collaboration tools that'll be required, and you can find yourself doing managerial stuff full time instead of, well, doing the fun bits.

----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason

It's potentially a big project and I'd like to be able to work on it full-time so as to make reasonable progress in the coming year but I'm completely clueless about how to raise sponsorship or even whether that's practical. Does anyone with greater experience of driving an OSS project have any advice they're willing to share on this or any related topics?

When it comes to grassroots efforts, I guess my "Ruby Mendicant"
project stands out:
http://majesticseacreature.com/mendicant/

I must admit that your success with Ruby Mendicant (which appears atypical) was the main reason I decided to raise the topic in hopes of hearing both your view on how that worked out and those of some of the people who contributed. Also as things stand I share many of the problems you had at the outset: aside from the occasional argument here on Ruby-Talk and some geeky conference presentations I don't have a particularly high community profile and as I've not been involved in open source before I don't even have a public repository of old code that people can check to decide if my time's a good investment.

And of course RubyGoLightly like Prawn is an infrastructure project, so yet again there's no obvious business plan for building it commercially...

But I think that the environment is different these days, and I
struggled to get funding for the Unity project, even though I thought
this was a cool project as well:

http://pledgie.com/campaigns/4640

It's certainly something the community could do with now we live with diverse runtimes. Whilst RubyGoLightly is light years away from RubySpec compliance (it's not even likely to compile this side of Christmas as I'm tied up with family commitments) it's my long-term hope that it could make it :slight_smile:

I did end up doing at least as much work as that $270 paid for, but
the project got sidelined due to having to pay the bills with other
persuits...

So I guess what I'm suggesting is that it might not be worth it to try
too hard to do this grassroots with the way things are lately. Even
with my success story of Ruby Mendicant, I was living at a subsistence
level off of the donations and needed to take on occasional
contracting work to supplement.

This project has actually landed in my lap at a pretty weird time: my last commercial project tanked back in February and the projects I've been approached about since have all been unfunded start-ups. I've taken on several sweat equity gigs in the past but the return on investment has been lousy so I'm training myself to say 'no' to the next big thing. So anyway, on the one hand I have plenty of time available for development but on the other I'm really starting to feel the pich and need to bring in some money, even if it's only a few hundred dollars per month. I estimate that around $500 pcm is my break-even, which is pretty low, and beyond that I can fund non-essentials such as conferences and replacement hardware if anything happens to my MacBook or Wind.

However because I have the spare hours anyway the work's likely to happen regardless of sponsorship, it's just I could end up living in a cardboard box somewhere whilst doing it lol

The motivator for me is that I know that if I don't develop this then it's unlikely anyone else will bother. I think that would be a huge lost opportunity as Ruby really needs a decent concurrency makeover to resolve many of the scaling bottlenecks in the C runtime, something which I freely admit I may not be the right person to deliver but at least I'm willing to have a go at tackling the problem. Whilst this work won't be directly relevant to MRI my hope is that there'll be a halo effect the way there's been with JRuby and Rubinius where the better ideas are plundered and ported to C.

Better to go try to get yourself hired by Engineyard or something... :-/

That's a course of action I'd rather avoid if at all possible - my family's quite happily settled in London and not looking to relocate anytime soon. Anyway EY already have two in house Ruby development teams so I doubt a third would hold much appeal.

Or save up some money and take a few months off.

I wish this were an option. That way I could have worked on this in private and if it turned out badly no one else need ever know!

At any rate, I'm happy to discuss this further if you're still
interested in the idea of getting community sponsorship. But
realistically, it'd be best to find a company willing to pay for your
work, as much as I hate to say that.

Realistically the main company likely to want to sponsor this kind of work is Google, only they've always been dismissive of Ruby so I'm not sure they'd be interested. It's certainly something I'll look into though as they have a London office.

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net
http://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanormchugh

···

On 17 Dec 2009, at 23:28, Gregory Brown wrote:

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Eleanor McHugh > <eleanor@games-with-brains.com> wrote:

I estimate that around $500 pcm is my break-even, which is pretty
low, and beyond that I can fund non-essentials such as conferences and
replacement hardware if anything happens to my MacBook or Wind.

What is pcm?

Anyway I don't know if my previous email got lost [I don't see it
anywhere].

Greg's idea for mendicant was a pretty good one--ask for donations, get
corporate sponsors to match or to sponsor you out right. The kicker
with something experimental like this is to convince people "why it's
the next best thing."

Besides that, google SoC might work, if you can find a student to work
on it. Or some type of research funding grant, or get a full time job
with somebody that gives you 20% time for research, like I guess Google
does (do those companies exist?) :slight_smile:

-r

···

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

Although I can't remember having seen any code of yours I definitively appreciate your postings here. Your community profile might be better than you believe. :slight_smile:

My 0.02 EUR: why not invest half a day and write up a project outline with enough detail so people can get a clear impression of your vision, put it on a website and provide a means to collect funding commitments (maybe something with a google docs hosted form could work)? You could even keep individual names private if people wish so, which might be the case for various reasons.

Warm regards

  robert

···

On 20.12.2009 02:28, Eleanor McHugh wrote:

Also as things stand I share many of the problems you had at the
outset: aside from the occasional argument here on Ruby-Talk and some
geeky conference presentations I don't have a particularly high
community profile and as I've not been involved in open source before
I don't even have a public repository of old code that people can
check to decide if my time's a good investment.

--
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Well, while I won't be able to give presentations at conferences (mostly due to lack of funds precluding travel heavily), I'm willing to volunteer time to handle more managerial tasks, if you feel the need, or don't want the hassle. :slight_smile:

Feel free to contact me off-list. :slight_smile:

···

On 20.12.2009 01:17, Eleanor McHugh wrote:

Managerial stuff definitely isn't something I want to spend too much time on though as I suspect just publicising this project will eat into my time - I'm already thinking that it's likely to be something I'll want to talk about at conferences next year and having done five of those this year I know how much time that will eat up. However I'm sort of crossing my fingers and hoping that for a small team the combo of github and wave will be enough to coordinate things. I guess time will tell.

--
Phillip Gawlowski

Eleanor McHugh wrote:

Naturally I'm also looking for collaborators but I'll admit to being something of a lone wolf as I'm used to working solo on ambitious but underfunded commercial projects. It's not that I don't trust other people to pull their weight, just that it's a luxury I've never had!
  
I think this kind of thing is a bootstrapping problem. For a lot of
companies they don't see the benefit in investing in something like this
unless you are already using it. What about pushing it as a free time
project until you have enough working to use it in a money project, then
use money projects to drive its development.

Edward

Although I can't remember having seen any code of yours I definitively
appreciate your postings here. Your community profile might be better
than you believe. :slight_smile:

Agreed. I fondly remember Eleanor's and my exchange back in an ADA discussion on ruby-talk. :slight_smile:

My 0.02 EUR: why not invest half a day and write up a project outline
with enough detail so people can get a clear impression of your vision,
put it on a website and provide a means to collect funding commitments
(maybe something with a google docs hosted form could work)? You could
even keep individual names private if people wish so, which might be the
case for various reasons.

If nothing else, a project outline would be a great step in convincing others that this is a worthwhile project, so that contributors of code, time, and maybe even money invest their assets.

After all, Linux started off as a weekend project to learn about the 80386 architecture by some Finnish student.

The problem, as it is, is that any sort of income generated for RubyGoLightly and by extension, Eleanor, will take a long time, if there is no corporate sponsorship.

On the other hand, the rise of social networking has made spreading the word, and networking, easier than ever.

···

On 20.12.2009 13:40, Robert Klemme wrote:

On 20.12.2009 02:28, Eleanor McHugh wrote:

--
Phillip Gawlowski

Raising money on your own for software projects, open source or not,
is hard, particularly when the audience is programmers.

My buddy Kent Beck has a rather impressive community profile amongst
the Java and Smalltalk communities couldn't seem to make his work on
jUnit max pay off.

In my own case, I've been working on ri_cal
GitHub - rubyredrick/ri_cal: New Rfc 2445 (iCalendar) gem for Ruby in my (sometimes too much) free
time for a year now, gotten very good feedback on it, but so far the
pledgie campaign http://pledgie.com/campaigns/4360 has yielded just
$100, not much for hundreds if not thousands of hours of work.

If you want to be paid to work on open source, the best bet seems to
be to find an employer who's willing to donate all or some of your
time to open source contributions. The usual wages for doing it
yourself seem to be enhanced reputation, and hopefully better chances
of finding work via consulting or as a resume enhancer for finding
more traditional employment.

···

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:

On 20.12.2009 02:28, Eleanor McHugh wrote:

Also as things stand I share many of the problems you had at the
outset: aside from the occasional argument here on Ruby-Talk and some
geeky conference presentations I don't have a particularly high
community profile and as I've not been involved in open source before
I don't even have a public repository of old code that people can
check to decide if my time's a good investment.

Although I can't remember having seen any code of yours I definitively
appreciate your postings here. Your community profile might be better than
you believe. :slight_smile:

--
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale
WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale

I estimate that around $500 pcm is my break-even, which is pretty
low, and beyond that I can fund non-essentials such as conferences and
replacement hardware if anything happens to my MacBook or Wind.

What is pcm?

per calendar month :slight_smile:

Anyway I don't know if my previous email got lost [I don't see it
anywhere].

Greg's idea for mendicant was a pretty good one--ask for donations, get
corporate sponsors to match or to sponsor you out right. The kicker
with something experimental like this is to convince people "why it's
the next best thing."

Besides that, google SoC might work, if you can find a student to work
on it. Or some type of research funding grant, or get a full time job
with somebody that gives you 20% time for research, like I guess Google
does (do those companies exist?) :slight_smile:

It's becoming quite a frequent thing in web companies but but unfortunately I have a small child who eats up a lot of my 'non-work' hours so 20% of my employed time + what I can arrange at weekends would maybe amount to a total of 80 days of coding per year - nowhere near enough to make a dent in this project :frowning:

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net

···

On 20 Dec 2009, at 05:02, Roger Pack wrote:
----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason

Thanks for the suggestion Robert, I think I'll give that a go over Xmas as I may have the luxury of a day or two to myself :slight_smile:

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net

···

On 20 Dec 2009, at 12:40, Robert Klemme wrote:

On 20.12.2009 02:28, Eleanor McHugh wrote:

Also as things stand I share many of the problems you had at the
outset: aside from the occasional argument here on Ruby-Talk and some
geeky conference presentations I don't have a particularly high
community profile and as I've not been involved in open source before
I don't even have a public repository of old code that people can
check to decide if my time's a good investment.

Although I can't remember having seen any code of yours I definitively appreciate your postings here. Your community profile might be better than you believe. :slight_smile:

My 0.02 EUR: why not invest half a day and write up a project outline with enough detail so people can get a clear impression of your vision, put it on a website and provide a means to collect funding commitments (maybe something with a google docs hosted form could work)? You could even keep individual names private if people wish so, which might be the case for various reasons.

----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason

I'm already resigned to the likelihood that development will be unpaid and that building something because it's a good idea isn't necessarily a sane or rational choice. That said, as a sometime punk the DIY aspect of the project is irresistible :slight_smile:

And I have had some good suggestions from here and from the LRUG list which I'll be following up on over the next few weeks.

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net

···

On 22 Dec 2009, at 02:02, Edward Middleton wrote:

Eleanor McHugh wrote:

Naturally I'm also looking for collaborators but I'll admit to being something of a lone wolf as I'm used to working solo on ambitious but underfunded commercial projects. It's not that I don't trust other people to pull their weight, just that it's a luxury I've never had!

I think this kind of thing is a bootstrapping problem. For a lot of
companies they don't see the benefit in investing in something like this
unless you are already using it. What about pushing it as a free time
project until you have enough working to use it in a money project, then
use money projects to drive its development.

----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason

An additional cave at is that prospective employers, willing to donate their employee's time to an open source project must have a need for the project themselves, otherwise it doesn't make a whole lot of business-sense. Altruism can be found in the corporate world, of course, but it's few and far between.

···

On 20.12.2009 16:16, Rick DeNatale wrote:

If you want to be paid to work on open source, the best bet seems to
be to find an employer who's willing to donate all or some of your
time to open source contributions. The usual wages for doing it
yourself seem to be enhanced reputation, and hopefully better chances
of finding work via consulting or as a resume enhancer for finding
more traditional employment.

--
Phillip Gawlowski

My memory's mostly clouded by that poisonous climate change thread we had on here earlier in the year so I'm glad I'm remembered for something else!

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net

···

On 20 Dec 2009, at 13:01, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

On 20.12.2009 13:40, Robert Klemme wrote:

On 20.12.2009 02:28, Eleanor McHugh wrote:
Although I can't remember having seen any code of yours I definitively
appreciate your postings here. Your community profile might be better
than you believe. :slight_smile:

Agreed. I fondly remember Eleanor's and my exchange back in an ADA discussion on ruby-talk. :slight_smile:

----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason

Well to be honest I wouldn't be considering risking it on my own if I saw much of an alternative, and if I didn't have other projects on the drawing board that need a decent concurrent Ruby implementation.

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-brains.net

···

On 20 Dec 2009, at 15:16, Rick DeNatale wrote:

If you want to be paid to work on open source, the best bet seems to
be to find an employer who's willing to donate all or some of your
time to open source contributions. The usual wages for doing it
yourself seem to be enhanced reputation, and hopefully better chances
of finding work via consulting or as a resume enhancer for finding
more traditional employment.

----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason

Although it might be the exception that a company employ someone to do
open source full time, it's far from unheard of. Much more common is
to have a policy of setting some portion of employee's time aside for
open source contributions. This goes along with a common practice of
letting employees have time to work on personal company projects, i.e.
projects which the employee believes would benefit the company but
don't have official status. This has been done for a long time by
many technical companies for the development of engineers and
programmers, if nothing else. There are a lot of companies which see
benefit in this, and at the top of the pyramid we have examples of
companies which either sponsor large open-source efforts themselves,
or hire open-source luminaries (e.g. Linus Torvalds) to fund a highly
visible open source project.

The real problem in funding a DIY open source effort is that, even if
there is benefit to the users of the effort, most are not willing to
step up to the plate and pitch in funding. Kent's jUnit Max clearly
had value, but not many were willing to convert that to money. In my
case, I know that there are lots of projects which need a robust RFC
2445 compliant icalendar implementation for Ruby, but few seem willing
to contribute financially. My ability to support the project ebbs and
flows with how much paying work I have. Although I love to work on
the project and other open source contributions, working on stuff
which actually puts bread on the table has much higher priority.

And in the case of a project like Eleanor's which is as I understand
it an alternative Ruby implementation, it's tough. Sellling language
implementations, IDEs, and other programming tools for money is
getting more and more difficult since most of these things are
available for free or close to free these days:
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/2009/05/28/selling-shoes-to-the-shoemakers-children

And talking to some of my old buds who are still at IBM, it seems that
the corporate types who try to sell 'enterprise level' tools for lots
of money are having a hard time understanding this, and worse, are
trying to compete with lightweight tools, languages, and frameworks
for the current adopters of those lightweight developer goodies.

···

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Phillip Gawlowski <pg@thimian.com> wrote:

On 20.12.2009 16:16, Rick DeNatale wrote:

If you want to be paid to work on open source, the best bet seems to
be to find an employer who's willing to donate all or some of your
time to open source contributions. The usual wages for doing it
yourself seem to be enhanced reputation, and hopefully better chances
of finding work via consulting or as a resume enhancer for finding
more traditional employment.

An additional cave at is that prospective employers, willing to donate their
employee's time to an open source project must have a need for the project
themselves, otherwise it doesn't make a whole lot of business-sense.
Altruism can be found in the corporate world, of course, but it's few and
far between.

--
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale
WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale

Curiously, until you reminded us about that climate change thread,
I'd completely forgotten about it, so I also associate you with other things!

···

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Eleanor McHugh <eleanor@games-with-brains.com> wrote:

On 20 Dec 2009, at 13:01, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

On 20.12.2009 13:40, Robert Klemme wrote:

On 20.12.2009 02:28, Eleanor McHugh wrote:
Although I can't remember having seen any code of yours I definitively
appreciate your postings here. Your community profile might be better
than you believe. :slight_smile:

Agreed. I fondly remember Eleanor's and my exchange back in an ADA discussion on ruby-talk. :slight_smile:

My memory's mostly clouded by that poisonous climate change thread we had on here
earlier in the year so I'm glad I'm remembered for something else!

Although it might be the exception that a company employ someone to do
open source full time, it's far from unheard of.

Absolutely.

Much more common is
to have a policy of setting some portion of employee's time aside for
open source contributions. This goes along with a common practice of
letting employees have time to work on personal company projects, i.e.
projects which the employee believes would benefit the company but
don't have official status. This has been done for a long time by
many technical companies for the development of engineers and
programmers, if nothing else. There are a lot of companies which see
benefit in this, and at the top of the pyramid we have examples of
companies which either sponsor large open-source efforts themselves,
or hire open-source luminaries (e.g. Linus Torvalds) to fund a highly
visible open source project.

Indeed. Google merely gets the headlines with stuff that 3M, Toyota, and others are doing for years.

The real problem in funding a DIY open source effort is that, even if
there is benefit to the users of the effort, most are not willing to
step up to the plate and pitch in funding. Kent's jUnit Max clearly
had value, but not many were willing to convert that to money. In my
case, I know that there are lots of projects which need a robust RFC
2445 compliant icalendar implementation for Ruby, but few seem willing
to contribute financially. My ability to support the project ebbs and
flows with how much paying work I have. Although I love to work on
the project and other open source contributions, working on stuff
which actually puts bread on the table has much higher priority.

Very true. It's a combination of NIH syndrome, as well as programmers, usually, being able to roll their own. Programmers are a tough market, but it is not impossible to sell them tools, either. FogBuzz is an example in the "tools" space.

I'd love to see iCal support for Ruby, especially since I could use it for a couple of ideas I have to make my own life easier, but paying money for the library is out of the question for a couple of reasons (which can change, of course).

And in the case of a project like Eleanor's which is as I understand
it an alternative Ruby implementation, it's tough. Sellling language
implementations, IDEs, and other programming tools for money is
getting more and more difficult since most of these things are
available for free or close to free these days:
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/2009/05/28/selling-shoes-to-the-shoemakers-children

Indeed. Even MS gives away free versions of Visual Studio. The idea is, of course, that users pay for the Profressional or Team System solutions, a deal made sweeter by the investment. If you know how the debugger works, where the compiler lives, and how to configure the IDE, the pain of buying a tool is less severe, than buying a largely unknown product.

In short: Generating customer lock-in is key.

However, that is not quite possible with an open source project (fortunately). However, OSS mostly generates income with fringe benefits: Tired support, selling install media, selling a printed manual.

It is, by no means, impossible to monetize an OSS project. But it's a long, long road, and can be a thin edge to walk, as well. OSS lives from contributors (the Bazaar model of Linux is much more prevalent than the Cathedral model of GNU), and alienating *them* is risky, yet easily done.

In conclusion: It is not impossible, at all, to generate *some* sort of income from an open source project. But it takes patience.

For the classic models of selling software, I can't yet see a revenue stream for RubyGoLightly.

A look at Java, and .NET, could be an idea, as well as Linux distros, to see how money comes in.

···

On 20.12.2009 16:43, Rick DeNatale wrote:

--
Phillip Gawlowski