Help -- persuade my boss to adopt ruby

ruby-talk
1

Dang! Ugly American idioms...

Making waves:
means disturbing the established order of things; such as introducing a new concept or language that's different from "the way we've always done it." It is perceived as a threat to the status quo.

Comes from waves in water that make boats rock (another phrase is "Don't rock the boat.")

···

What do you mean making waves? Confused...

Shannon
On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:00:28 +0900 > "Ted" <ted@datacomm.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately, people rise in management by NOT making waves...
>
> > Hi Phil,
> >
> > You are absolutely right. What they fear is that:
> >
> > 1. Currently only I understand Ruby.
> > 2. Java is in vogue. They want the language to be there after 10-20
> > years...
> >
> > I am currently writing a small introduction letter to my boss...
> >
> > Shannon

2

My advice:

  1. Don’t tell them you are using Ruby (or mention any technology for
    that matter)
  2. Deliver what your boss wants in business terms on time, to budget
    etc.

What more can he want?!

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted [mailto:ted@datacomm.com]
Sent: 12 December 2002 01:23
To: ruby-talk ML; xrfang@hotmail.com
Cc: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org; ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: help – persuade my boss to adopt ruby

Dang! Ugly American idioms…

Making waves:
means disturbing the established order of things; such as introducing a
new concept or language that’s different from “the way we’ve always done
it.” It is perceived as a threat to the status quo.

Comes from waves in water that make boats rock (another phrase is “Don’t
rock the boat.”)

What do you mean making waves? Confused…

Shannon
On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:00:28 +0900 > “Ted” ted@datacomm.com wrote:

Unfortunately, people rise in management by NOT making waves…

Hi Phil,

You are absolutely right. What they fear is that:

  1. Currently only I understand Ruby.
  2. Java is in vogue. They want the language to be there after
    10-20 years…

I am currently writing a small introduction letter to my boss…

Shannon

Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 20/11/2002

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 20/11/2002

3

In article 000901c2a17d$b8a091f0$0201a8c0@EVO,

My advice:

  1. Don’t tell them you are using Ruby (or mention any technology for
    that matter)
  2. Deliver what your boss wants in business terms on time, to budget
    etc.

What more can he want?!

That’s certainly one strategy: if you think you can develop this app in
Ruby in a relatively short amount of time AND if it’s a sort of standalone
app that doesn’t depend on other modules written in other languages
(other than C or C++ which can be fairly easily wrapped for use
in Ruby) then go for it. You can demo the app to your boss and hopefully be
done with all the convincing.

If the edict goes forth to use Java, I suppose if you’re convinced that
you can deliver something quicker in Ruby than a few people coding in Java
can deliver it in that you could start a parallel effort to try to beat
them… but you’d probably have to be working on it on your own time.

Phil

···

Russ Freeman russ@freesoft.co.uk wrote:

“Or perhaps the truth is less interesting than the facts?”
Amy Weiss (accusing theregister.co.uk of engaging in ‘tabloid journalism’)
Senior VP, Communications
Recording Industry Association of America

4

Hi,
Before I learned Ruby, I had a job as a ‘Unix Tool Man’, writing
scripts and programs.
I used C, C++, KornShell, awk, Perl and Python.
I questions I always ask when I was handed a program requirement was
‘Production’ or ‘in-house’ and when you want it done by.
This allowed me to choose the correct language for the job.
On a ‘Production’ program I only could use 'C, C++, and KornShell. I
always went with KornShell and awk for non-real time and C and C++ for
real-time programs.
On an ‘in-house’ program I used Python. If the program was going to be
around for a while, I moved it to C++.

The meaning of the story:

  1. Don’t ask, don’t tell - If the requirement does not say what language
    to use, choose what every language will get the job done with the less
    amount of maintenance. This way the program is running and then you can
    have the program redone in another language later.

robert_linder_2000@yahoo.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Russ Freeman [mailto:russ@freesoft.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:28 PM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: help – persuade my boss to adopt ruby

My advice:

  1. Don’t tell them you are using Ruby (or mention any technology for
    that matter)
  2. Deliver what your boss wants in business terms on time, to budget
    etc.

What more can he want?!

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted [mailto:ted@datacomm.com]
Sent: 12 December 2002 01:23
To: ruby-talk ML; xrfang@hotmail.com
Cc: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org; ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: help – persuade my boss to adopt ruby

Dang! Ugly American idioms…

Making waves:
means disturbing the established order of things; such as introducing a
new concept or language that’s different from “the way we’ve always done
it.” It is perceived as a threat to the status quo.

Comes from waves in water that make boats rock (another phrase is “Don’t
rock the boat.”)

What do you mean making waves? Confused…

Shannon
On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:00:28 +0900 > “Ted” ted@datacomm.com wrote:

Unfortunately, people rise in management by NOT making waves…

Hi Phil,

You are absolutely right. What they fear is that:

  1. Currently only I understand Ruby.
  2. Java is in vogue. They want the language to be there after
    10-20 years…

I am currently writing a small introduction letter to my boss…

Shannon

Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 20/11/2002

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 20/11/2002

5

hi Russ,

  1. I’ve already mentioned that… :frowning:
  2. Supportability! Durability!..

Shannon

···

On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:28:10 +0900 “Russ Freeman” russ@freesoft.co.uk wrote:

My advice:

  1. Don’t tell them you are using Ruby (or mention any technology for
    that matter)
  2. Deliver what your boss wants in business terms on time, to budget
    etc.

What more can he want?!

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted [mailto:ted@datacomm.com]
Sent: 12 December 2002 01:23
To: ruby-talk ML; xrfang@hotmail.com
Cc: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org; ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: help – persuade my boss to adopt ruby

Dang! Ugly American idioms…

Making waves:
means disturbing the established order of things; such as introducing a
new concept or language that’s different from “the way we’ve always done
it.” It is perceived as a threat to the status quo.

Comes from waves in water that make boats rock (another phrase is “Don’t
rock the boat.”)

What do you mean making waves? Confused…

Shannon
On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:00:28 +0900 > > “Ted” ted@datacomm.com wrote:

Unfortunately, people rise in management by NOT making waves…

Hi Phil,

You are absolutely right. What they fear is that:

  1. Currently only I understand Ruby.
  2. Java is in vogue. They want the language to be there after
    10-20 years…

I am currently writing a small introduction letter to my boss…

Shannon

Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 20/11/2002

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 20/11/2002

6

If the edict goes forth to use Java, I suppose if you’re convinced that
you can deliver something quicker in Ruby than a few people coding in Java
can deliver it in that you could start a parallel effort to try to beat
them… but you’d probably have to be working on it on your own time.

Phil

Alternatively, take the approach that you’ll save time in the long run by doing
a Ruby prototype first. That’s what I did for my current project. My manager
(a very reasonable guy but fearful of company politics - correctly so) turned a
blind eye until the deadline was looming, then insisted I start work in Java.
He and I know that the project is better for having done a working prototype
first. And then you get that nice chance to start from scratch.

Coding Java is much easier when you’re thinking in Ruby, but quite frustrating
nonetheless…

Gavin

···

From: “Phil Tomson” ptkwt@shell1.aracnet.com

7

OK, to fix a threading problem, I upgraded to Ruby
1.7.3. Threading problem fixed.

However, I am now having an issue with capturing
output of a system command when running with rubyw.exe

Is this a known issue?

output = dir
outText.appendText(output) #this is an FXRuby thing

works fine on 1.6.7, but fails to return anything on
1.7.3.

Jason

8

Hi,

I have not used FXRuby, but I think probably there may be some
compatibility problem in v1.7.3. For example, the following code

line.scan(‘a reg exp’) works fine in v1.6.7 but you must change it to
line.scan(/a reg exp/) in v1.7.3.

I don’t know if in future versions, these kind of changes are still
expected or not… It is not good for serious use of Ruby…

Any comments from the Ruby Executives? Matz?

Thanks
Shannon

···

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 03:50:24 +0900 Jason Persampieri jason@persampieri.net wrote:

OK, to fix a threading problem, I upgraded to Ruby
1.7.3. Threading problem fixed.

However, I am now having an issue with capturing
output of a system command when running with rubyw.exe

Is this a known issue?

output = dir
outText.appendText(output) #this is an FXRuby thing

works fine on 1.6.7, but fails to return anything on
1.7.3.

Jason

9

Hi,

···

At Fri, 13 Dec 2002 03:50:24 +0900, Jason Persampieri wrote:

However, I am now having an issue with capturing
output of a system command when running with rubyw.exe

Is this a known issue?

output = dir
outText.appendText(output) #this is an FXRuby thing

works fine on 1.6.7, but fails to return anything on
1.7.3.

“ruby -e ‘p dir’” worked fine. Could you show the minimal
code reproduces the issue?

–
Nobu Nakada

10

The regex is required in 1.7.3. v1.6.7 just converted internally for
you.

···

On Friday, 13 December 2002 at 6:09:24 +0900, Shannon Fang wrote:

Hi,

I have not used FXRuby, but I think probably there may be some
compatibility problem in v1.7.3. For example, the following code

line.scan(‘a reg exp’) works fine in v1.6.7 but you must change it to
line.scan(/a reg exp/) in v1.7.3.

–
Jim Freeze

I call them as I see them. If I can’t see them, I make them up.
– Biff Barf

11

Right. The problem is specific to rubyw.exe

rubyw -e “File.open(‘test.txt’,‘w+’) {|f| f.write
dir}”

works as expected on 1.6.7, but doesn’t work on 1.7.3.

Jason

···

— nobu.nokada@softhome.net wrote:

Hi,

At Fri, 13 Dec 2002 03:50:24 +0900, > Jason Persampieri wrote:

However, I am now having an issue with capturing
output of a system command when running with
rubyw.exe

Is this a known issue?

output = dir
outText.appendText(output) #this is an FXRuby
thing

works fine on 1.6.7, but fails to return anything
on
1.7.3.

“ruby -e ‘p dir’” worked fine. Could you show the
minimal
code reproduces the issue?

–
Nobu Nakada

12

It created incompatibility. If ruby are widely used, it may affect a lot
of existing code… that’s not good.

Shannon

···

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 06:13:28 +0900 Jim Freeze jim@freeze.org wrote:

I have not used FXRuby, but I think probably there may be some
compatibility problem in v1.7.3. For example, the following code

line.scan(‘a reg exp’) works fine in v1.6.7 but you must change it to
line.scan(/a reg exp/) in v1.7.3.

The regex is required in 1.7.3. v1.6.7 just converted internally for
you.

13

btw, what is the difference between ruby and rubyw?

tks.
Shannon

···

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:07:21 +0900 Jason Persampieri jason@persampieri.net wrote:

Right. The problem is specific to rubyw.exe

rubyw -e “File.open(‘test.txt’,‘w+’) {|f| f.write
dir}”

14

Hi,

···

At Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:07:21 +0900, Jason Persampieri wrote:

Right. The problem is specific to rubyw.exe

rubyw -e “File.open(‘test.txt’,‘w+’) {|f| f.write dir}”

works as expected on 1.6.7, but doesn’t work on 1.7.3.

rubyw is a GUI mode program which has no console, therefore
restoring STDIN/STDOUT would fail, I guess.

This patch may fix the problem, but I’d rather use
CreateChild() for redirection…

Index: win32.c

RCS file: /cvs/ruby/src/ruby/win32/win32.c,v
retrieving revision 1.75
diff -u -2 -p -r1.75 win32.c
— win32.c 2 Dec 2002 07:57:17 -0000 1.75
+++ win32.c 13 Dec 2002 20:03:37 -0000
@@ -546,5 +546,5 @@ pipe_exec(char *cmd, int mode, FILE *fp
/ restore STDIN/STDOUT */
if (reading) {

  •   if (!SetStdHandle(STD_OUTPUT_HANDLE, hSavedStdOut)) {

  •   if (hSavedStdOut && !SetStdHandle(STD_OUTPUT_HANDLE, hSavedStdOut)) {
  errno = GetLastError();
  CloseChildHandle(child);

@@ -559,5 +559,5 @@ pipe_exec(char *cmd, int mode, FILE **fp
}
if (writing) {

  •   if (!SetStdHandle(STD_INPUT_HANDLE, hSavedStdIn)) {

  •   if (hSavedStdIn && !SetStdHandle(STD_INPUT_HANDLE, hSavedStdIn)) {
  errno = GetLastError();
  CloseChildHandle(child);

–
Nobu Nakada

15

Please Shannon, although most people on the list don’t mind answering a
whole bunch of newbie questions, it pays at times to turn first to the
manual before posting. Its right there in the Pickaxe, and in numerous other
places. IRC might also be an appropriate venue for spur of the moment, no
research required questions, but an archived mailing list with an immense
volume of postings certainly isn’t.

(from Ruby and Microsoft Windows chapter, pickaxe: "In these cases, you’ll
want to use rubyw.exe. It is the same as ruby.exe except that it does not
provide standard in, standard out, or standard error, and does not launch a
DOS shell when run. ")

David.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Shannon Fang [mailto:xrfang@hotmail.com]

btw, what is the difference between ruby and rubyw?