I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there fundamental
differences between them?
Serve Lau wrote:
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby.
That’s the fundamental error you’re making – Just learn both. It’s
worth it, because you will acquire two very distinct mindsets about how
to do things. (The languages themself have differences, but from the
outside they’re not going to look any important.)
Regards,
Florian Gross
Serve Lau a écrit :
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there fundamental
differences between them?
No in a theoric point of view (since the last versions of python),
yes in a practical point of view.
Just practice both ruby and python, make your opinion yourself and then
choose your preferred.
Lio
Serve Lau wrote:
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there fundamental
differences between them?
Maybe 
What have you learned about the two languages so far? Which one attracts
you more? If you haven’t done that, try visiting www.ruby-lang.org and
www.python.org and try reading some of the introductory materials there.
It takes perhaps 1-2 hours or even more, but that’s definitely better
than just taking people’s advice on which to choose.
Oh, and there’s a gazillion threads spent on this subject already, if
you search the archives
···
–
dave
Ruby aims to be as intuitive to read as possible, while still maintaining
power. There is only a few obscure symbols which has certain meaning.
Ruby uses certain prefixes/suffixes, which makes Ruby-source code easy to read.
$global_variable
@instance_variable
harmless_method?
destructive_method!
Ruby doesn’t have significant indention.
IMHO Python more obscure usage of symbols and is less readable.
···
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:40:19 +0200, Serve Lau wrote:
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there fundamental
differences between them?
–
Simon Strandgaard
Serve Lau wrote:
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there fundamental
differences between them?
You can learn about some of the differences here:
http://www.ruby-doc.org/RubyEyeForThePythonGuy.html
James
Hello Serve,
Sunday, March 28, 2004, 3:44:25 PM, you wrote:
I'm trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there fundamental
differences between them?
No, there aren't any fundamental difference. From an educational point
they the same, also not different from perl or tcl.
Imperative script languages with OO extensions.
If you really want to increase your wisdom learn one of them, one compiled
language and one functional language.
And remember, good programmers learn how to do programming. It doesn't
matter in what language they do it. You can learn language like ruby,
perl, or c later within one week. Thats why normally universities don't teach
language.
···
--
Best regards,
Lothar mailto:mailinglists@scriptolutions.com
“Serve Lau” ik@detongiser.com wrote in message news:106dlen5mr97q76@corp.supernews.com…
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there fundamental
differences between them?
Ruby has a lot of Smalltalk ideas in it and implements OO very nicely
(cleaner than Python, imho). Python has a Lisp slant.
Python is more popular, has much better community support and more
libraries.
But, as someone else already said, both are really easy to pick up, so
it is a good idea to learn both. You won’t regret it.
-klaus
Serve Lau wrote:
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there
fundamental differences between them?
The main advantage of Python is that the libraries are more mature and
(at least in English) the documentation is better. I’ve also heard it
said that Python is faster. Also, Python has the Pyrex affiliated
language which eases connection with C.
I feel that Ruby is a better language design, and I really don’t like
using white-space as a block delimiter. I’ve also heard it asserted
that Python will even be removing the ability to use tabs for
indentation, though that hasn’t happened yet. (Also I haven’t
confirmed that from a source I recognize as authoritative…so don’t
take it too seriously.)
OTOH, Ruby’s libraries are maturing rapidly. And “Ruby done Rite” is
on it’s way (but who knows when).
I don’t think I would say that python has a lisp slant. In fact, ruby has more functional programming syntax (e.g. list processing) than python. Python is a procedural language.
OO was hacked onto Python. It isn’t terrible, but it isn’t really OO either.
···
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 06:49:24 +0900 klausm0762@yahoo.de (Klaus Momberger) wrote:
“Serve Lau” ik@detongiser.com wrote in message news:106dlen5mr97q76@corp.supernews.com…
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there fundamental
differences between them?Ruby has a lot of Smalltalk ideas in it and implements OO very nicely
(cleaner than Python, imho). Python has a Lisp slant.Python is more popular, has much better community support and more
libraries.But, as someone else already said, both are really easy to pick up, so
it is a good idea to learn both. You won’t regret it.-klaus
!DSPAM:406748b912791827565832!
–
Seth Kurtzberg
CQL
480-661-1849
seth@cql.com
CQL - The Open Source Database for Embedded Applications
“Lothar Scholz” mailinglists@scriptolutions.com wrote in message
news:41663875.20040328202116@scriptolutions.com…
Hello Serve,
Sunday, March 28, 2004, 3:44:25 PM, you wrote:
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there
fundamental
differences between them?No, there aren’t any fundamental difference. From an educational point
they the same, also not different from perl or tcl.
Imperative script languages with OO extensions.
Wasn’t python designed with ease of use as top priority? Surely there must
be some differences there? Easier to express things in ruby, more power or
something?
Hello Charles,
Tuesday, March 30, 2004, 6:30:54 AM, you wrote:
I feel that Ruby is a better language design, and I really don't like
using white-space as a block delimiter. I've also heard it asserted
that Python will even be removing the ability to use tabs for
indentation, though that hasn't happened yet. (Also I haven't
confirmed that from a source I recognize as authoritative...so don't
take it too seriously.)
This will happen in Python 2.4.
···
--
Best regards,
Lothar mailto:mailinglists@scriptolutions.com
If you really want to increase your wisdom learn one of them, one
compiled
language and one functional language.
yes either that or you could just learn Oz and kill three birds with
one stone
actually i’m just messing around with it now for the first time.
any body here done any Oz’ing, i’d like to hear your remarks if you
have.
_c
I’d say that python has a Scheme slant, cause functions are in the
same namespace of every other variable. IIRC lisp asks you to do
sharp-quote to use a function by name, somewhat like ruby’s method().
BTW, I believe ruby and python functionalness are ortoghonal.
Python has first class functions, ruby has more powerful lexical
closures.
Ruby even has call/cc but that is a black art that I’ll never
understand
···
il Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:14:37 +0900, Seth Kurtzberg seth@cql.com ha scritto::
I don’t think I would say that python has a lisp slant. In fact, ruby has more functional
programming syntax (e.g. list processing) than python.
Hello Serve,
Monday, March 29, 2004, 10:04:25 PM, you wrote:
"Lothar Scholz" <mailinglists@scriptolutions.com> wrote in message
news:41663875.20040328202116@scriptolutions.com...Hello Serve,
Sunday, March 28, 2004, 3:44:25 PM, you wrote:
> I'm trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there
fundamental
> differences between them?
No, there aren't any fundamental difference. From an educational point
they the same, also not different from perl or tcl.
Imperative script languages with OO extensions.
Wasn't python designed with ease of use as top priority? Surely there must
No i don't think that python has such a top priority. It came from a
mathematical branch of a dutch university. Perl had a top priority in
extracting data from text files, and TCL had the top goal of making it
easy to embedd in C applications. Ruby is as useable for extracting
data as Perl now, but nobody else reached the TCL/TK level of ease of
embedding, you can do this in 2 lines in TCL but need a few duzend in
Ruby - thats the reason why TCL is still so popular (a magnitude more
popular then Ruby) and TCL is in my experience still the most advanced
scripting language (with the technically best GUI Toolkit) - even
better then Perl.
be some differences there?
Easier to express things in ruby, more power or
something?
Its just a different flavour, some people like vanilla ice cream, some
like it with a cherry flavour.
···
--
Best regards,
Lothar mailto:mailinglists@scriptolutions.com
Ruby-ists, IMO, are generally reluctant to make qualitative statements
about Python vs. Ruby. Partly this is because we’re inherently
non-confrontational Partly this is because we’ve been burned by the
occasional troll who always starts out with mild Python vs. Ruby
questions. Partly because it’s near-impossible to define “better” such
that everybody agrees. (How would you measure the “power” of a programming
language?)
Mostly, though, I think it’s because it’s difficult to talk to
non-Rubyists about Ruby’s attraction. The attraction is mostly subjective,
mostly having to do with the amount of “fun” we have writing Ruby. This is
encouraged by Matz, who has repeatedly said that he thinks programming
should be fun and that he has tried to make it fun to write programs with
Ruby.
Personally I think that it’s time for programming-language designers (and
users) to get past strictly objective goals. I’m bored to tears with
“shoot-outs” and benchmarks. However, I was and remain excited by Matz’
conception of a language that “feels good” to use. Certainly I have fun
programming Ruby. Frequently I’m delighted, especially when I realize that
I have written a complete, correct, and robust program in about 75% of the
time I expected it to take. I’m also proud that I’ve learned so much about
OO programming by using Ruby.
I recognize that not everybody will find programmming Ruby as much fun as
I do. You bring your own background, experiences, and preconceptions to
the table, and it may well be that you will find yourself more in tune
with Python.
Therefore, I’ll echo what earlier posters have said: sample both. Read the
Pickaxe online. Borrow a Python book. Write the same 20 line script in
both languages. Sample the postings in the respective n.g.'s to get a feel
for the communities. Within a day or two you’ll find yourself favoring one
or the other. The languages don’t care which one you pick and either way
you’ll personally be ahead.
If you decide to concentrate on Ruby for a while, welcome to the club!
···
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:05:03 +0200, Serve Lau wrote:
Wasn’t python designed with ease of use as top priority? Surely there
must be some differences there? Easier to express things in ruby, more
power or something?
I don’t think I would say that python has a lisp slant. In
fact, ruby has more functional programming syntax (e.g. list
processing) than python. Python is a procedural language.
It’s amazing to see how clueless people here can be, and still offer
their opinions on the differences b/w the languages.
Python has first class functions, Ruby doesn’t. And yet ruby “has more
functional programming syntax”? And it has, take this, “list
processing”?
> OO was hacked onto Python. It isn't terrible, but it isn't
> really OO either.
Wow. I’m speechless.
Ruby is not more OO than Python - actually, I tend to think Ruby’s OO
is crippled by not having functions as first class objects.
It’s funny, I’ve chatted with various ruby people on IRC (on unrelated
newsgrops), and they like to say that feature-this-or-that in Python
is a hack. When questioned further, it appears that the feature is
exactly equivalent to the Ruby counterpart. The Ruby guy just never
learned it, because he blindly believed something he heard from
another Ruby guy.
I apologize if this entered the realm of ad hominem. Such outrageous
statements, esp. when pronounced with such vigour, just can’t go
uncontested. I just innocently stumbled here looking for some juicy
April Fool’s pranks, and here’s what I see…
I would like to suggest people take a look at a quite independent
comparison page at:
http://userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RubyPython
Instead of the ancient page, comparing ancient version of ruby with an
ancient version of Python that Ruby people like to refer people to.
···
–
Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb
gabriele renzi wrote:
il Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:14:37 +0900, Seth Kurtzberg seth@cql.com ha
scritto::I don’t think I would say that python has a lisp slant. In fact, ruby has more functional
programming syntax (e.g. list processing) than python.I’d say that python has a Scheme slant, cause functions are in the
same namespace of every other variable. IIRC lisp asks you to do
sharp-quote to use a function by name, somewhat like ruby’s method().BTW, I believe ruby and python functionalness are ortoghonal.
Python has first class functions, ruby has more powerful lexical
closures.
Ruby even has call/cc but that is a black art that I’ll never
understand
I would say feature wise they are very similar, from a theoretical
sense, but I prefer ruby at the symantic and syntactic level. It makes
more sense.
Charles Comstock
In article 112914078.20040330014722@scriptolutions.com,
Hello Serve,
Monday, March 29, 2004, 10:04:25 PM, you wrote:
“Lothar Scholz” mailinglists@scriptolutions.com wrote in message
news:41663875.20040328202116@scriptolutions.com…Hello Serve,
Sunday, March 28, 2004, 3:44:25 PM, you wrote:
I’m trying to decide to learn either python or ruby. Are there
fundamental
differences between them?No, there aren’t any fundamental difference. From an educational point
they the same, also not different from perl or tcl.
Imperative script languages with OO extensions.Wasn’t python designed with ease of use as top priority? Surely there must
No i don’t think that python has such a top priority. It came from a
mathematical branch of a dutch university. Perl had a top priority in
extracting data from text files, and TCL had the top goal of making it
easy to embedd in C applications. Ruby is as useable for extracting
data as Perl now, but nobody else reached the TCL/TK level of ease of
embedding, you can do this in 2 lines in TCL but need a few duzend in
Ruby - thats the reason why TCL is still so popular (a magnitude more
popular then Ruby) and TCL is in my experience still the most advanced
scripting language (with the technically best GUI Toolkit) - even
better then Perl.
TCL the most advanced scripting language and TK ‘technically the best GUI
Toolkit’?! Well I guess YMMV(AL) (Your Milage May Vary (A Lot)) 
There are a lot more features to compare than just “how easy is it to
embed”, however, I suppose if that’s your only criteria then maybe TCL is
the ‘the most advanced scripting language’ (for embedding in C programs).
That said, I do like TK’s canvas widget in that it can keep track of
what’s been drawn on it (and it’s also quite easy to convert to
postscript). but other than that, Tk is showing a lot of age lately,
compared to a lot of the newer toolkits. I do tend to use Tk more than
any other GUI toolkit, but that’s mostly because it’s ubiquitous.
Phil
···
Lothar Scholz mailinglists@scriptolutions.com wrote:
wrote (more or less):
Wasn’t python designed with ease of use as top priority? Surely there
must be some differences there? Easier to express things in ruby, more
power or something?Ruby-ists, IMO, are generally reluctant to make qualitative statements
about Python vs. Ruby. Partly this is because we’re inherently
non-confrontational
occasional troll who always starts out with mild Python vs. Ruby
questions. Partly because it’s near-impossible to define “better” such
that everybody agrees.
Yes - it’s a lot like saying “I’m looking for a large quadruped. Is a
horse or a cow better?”
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk
···
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 00:02:23 GMT, Tim Hunter cyclists@nc.rr.com
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:05:03 +0200, Serve Lau wrote: