I am trying to decide which office suite to choose from. The only
exposure I have had is Microsoft's, but now I have the choice between OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice. I have had lengthy discussions with
great individuals from the community regarding writing an education
software having a database component as its main focus. Briefly, as a
novice to programming (despite having read a book on Ruby, which
offered the "sky", but ended-up confusing reality to that of
programmer's
dream), I have decided, based on various discussions with the community,
to familiarize myself with: a) HTTP, b) CSS, c) vim, d)already created
office suites by the community,and then e) Rails or JRails - as a way of
deploying such software.
I know that there are many surprises and my writing shows an innocence,
which will eventually receive a "reality check". But in the meantime,
based on my line of thinking, can anyone advice me on 1) the difference
between the suites mentioned above and 2) my plan of action in deploying
such product.
Thank you Open Source community for your past and continued help.
Perhaps you can explain what you intend to do with this "office suite"?
It certainly has no relationship whatsoever to deploying a Rails app.
···
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:15 AM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:
...., I have decided, based on various discussions with the community,
to familiarize myself with: a) HTTP, b) CSS, c) vim, d)already created
office suites by the community,and then e) Rails or JRails - as a way of
deploying such software.
If you are starting from square one, I would honestly recommend you look
at Mendix (see http://www.mendix.com/ ).
You don't need to code anything. You draw 'models'. Draw your database
as an entity-relationship diagram and you have a working database
(choose Oracle, MySQl etc) with professional CSS update etc screens -
much more advanced than Rails. Drag and drop your controls. Your
micro-logic you do with graphics.
It's free to develop but then you would incur costs to deploy - but
against that you don't have to cross the even bigger divide ie setting
up and configuring your infrastructure. You just get them to host it
probably at the press of a button. I don't know what the cost per
transaction would be. I'll try and get an idea from a contact I have in
the UK, if you're at all interested.
Office packages are wonderfully powerful but complex in their own way
and not easy to deploy as web apps.
There is, for now, little difference between OpenOffice and
LibreOffice, seeing as LibreOffice forked only recently off of
Oracle's code base.
Considering, however, that pretty much all of the former OpenOffice
developers went over to LibreOffice, I'd stick with that. Especially
since Oracle hasn't shown so far to be trustworthy (3 OSS projects
have "split" from Oracle already: MySQL -> MariaDB, Hudson CI ->
Jenkins CI, OpenOffice -> LibreOffice; and Oracle isn't one to honor
promises, either made by their acquisitions (OpenSolaris isn't Free
anymore), nor promises they made themselves (see the Java Community
Process hubub)).
2) You can't really use Rails to deploy software to a client. It would
be possible, but it'd require providing some sort of client software,
and at that point you can use something simpler than use a web
framework (like password protected directories accessed via a GUI that
enables easy installation; similar to MS's Web Platform Installer, or
Ubuntu's Aptitude).
The question is: What is it you want to achieve?
···
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:
I know that there are many surprises and my writing shows an innocence,
which will eventually receive a "reality check". But in the meantime,
based on my line of thinking, can anyone advice me on 1) the difference
between the suites mentioned above and 2) my plan of action in deploying
such product.
--
Phillip Gawlowski
Though the folk I have met,
(Ah, how soon!) they forget
When I've moved on to some other place,
There may be one or two,
When I've played and passed through,
Who'll remember my song or my face.
I would choose LibreOffice due to recent events since sun's buyout.
As it's been mentioned an office suite is not really the correct tool
for creating a ruby on rails site.
Here is a short list of tool/software to look into:
1) Ubuntu Linux (the laymans linux)
2) rvm Ruby Version Manager
3) vim (my preferred text editor)
4) shell terminal ( once again preference. I like zsh but ubuntu defaults bash)
5) browser (firefox, opera, chrome... take one or use them all)
6) database (sqlite3 for development, postgres for deployment ...
mysql falls into the same area of sun/oracle debacle but it's still a
choice)
7) installing ruby on rails gem
If you need help getting something like this going I would be more
than happy to walk you through the steps to getting the proper
environment for you to experiment and learn on.
Also look in your neighborhood for ruby sigs and meetings. Definitely
the place to network with others and have someone show you directly.
As others have mentioned avoid tools that lock you in, don't run on
everything, are closed and/or attempt to charge you to learn/use.
···
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 4:15 AM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:
I am trying to decide which office suite to choose from. The only
exposure I have had is Microsoft's, but now I have the choice between
OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice. I have had lengthy discussions with
great individuals from the community regarding writing an education
software having a database component as its main focus. Briefly, as a
novice to programming (despite having read a book on Ruby, which
offered the "sky", but ended-up confusing reality to that of
programmer's
dream), I have decided, based on various discussions with the community,
to familiarize myself with: a) HTTP, b) CSS, c) vim, d)already created
office suites by the community,and then e) Rails or JRails - as a way of
deploying such software.
I know that there are many surprises and my writing shows an innocence,
which will eventually receive a "reality check". But in the meantime,
based on my line of thinking, can anyone advice me on 1) the difference
between the suites mentioned above and 2) my plan of action in deploying
such product.
Thank you Open Source community for your past and continued help.
What I want to create is a product that is computer accessible, that is
similar to a teacher's Grade Keeper, but goes farther by adding defined
info from principals, guidance counselors, lunch provision for students,
etc.. The reason for this approach is that this will now allow more
complete view of a what impacts a child.
Therefore, the daily entry of data from all participants (teachers,
principals, security, janitors, etc...) will give an analyzer a wider
set of defined parameter inputed data to access, then analyze. The
problem is where to start. I read a book on Ruby, some say that my next
step is to play with scripts, alter some commands and then test such
adjustments. The problems is to follow a logical sequence of learning.
For example, since i use Windows 7, have installed Ruby 1.9.2 p.136 and
Rails, Vim7.2, and LibreOffice 3.3. and saved info to htmldog.com from
which HTML & CSS can be learned.
I know very well that it will take me some time, however, now where do I
start? Should I star with htmldog tutorials, then open Rails along with
vim7.2, then the next stage will be to explore SQlite, then MYSQL, while
having LibreOffice Base as a source of reference?
In terms of distribution, giving it away free will not be taken
seriously by current educational administrators and policy makers. It
suits me to market it and if successful, support this community plus
other social causes of choice.
So based on all that have been said, where, specifically (if possible)
go from here in creating such a product.
Distinguish community,
Thanks again for such comments. I already build an Excel model which
consist of many files.I also wrote a layman methodology which includes a
graphical representation, explaining the relationship between and among
different contributors, the reporting system, defined the contributors,
what kind of information can be entered, who to target, red flags as
warning signs, and many other parameters. Over the years (20 years) I
have been using a smaller component of this creation, but now, after
seeing what my school district, and other districts use as a source of
information/data management, I think that my written model surpasses
their presentation tools.
Now it is time to role up my sleeves and get to work. I am not afraid of
spending countless hours working on learning. Secondly, I am not trying
to find a cute shortcut to creating a program. My great concern is where
to start, and having started, knowing the possible steps to take
(different tools such as Vim, HTML, SQLs) to have the understanding. As
I mentioned, many moons gone by, I do not have the finance to pay for
such expertise, also I am aware that due to the USA financial mess,
seeking private grants is almost virtually impossible. For others who
are fortunate to have the financial resources, good for them, my reality
is a bit different.
Therefore at this point I think that I have gathered a whole lot of
valuable information from a great community. My approach will be to
attack my dream with the following curriculum:
a)as described by Phillip G -Pick up the necessities of HTML,
CSS, and JavaScript - Learn about application security (this is very,
very important on the internet!)- Learn about deployment options for
Rails.
b) as mentioned by Shern - Check out <http://htmldog.com
c) as noted by Guecker928 - (during the learning process),
seek-out a marketing\legal\strategic plan.
d) As the whole community have said - take time and avoid
shortcuts.
Finally, I am very impressed with this board. And as I follow this guide
(2/3 year guide) I hope the community will keep providing novices like
myself the tools necessary to learn, build and someday add to the
support of this OpenSource environment.
I know that there are many surprises and my writing shows an innocence,
which will eventually receive a "reality check". But in the meantime,
based on my line of thinking, can anyone advice me on 1) the difference
between the suites mentioned above and 2) my plan of action in deploying
such product.
There is, for now, little difference between OpenOffice and
LibreOffice, seeing as LibreOffice forked only recently off of
Oracle's code base.
Considering, however, that pretty much all of the former OpenOffice
developers went over to LibreOffice, I'd stick with that. Especially
since Oracle hasn't shown so far to be trustworthy (3 OSS projects
have "split" from Oracle already: MySQL -> MariaDB, Hudson CI ->
Jenkins CI, OpenOffice -> LibreOffice; and Oracle isn't one to honor
promises, either made by their acquisitions (OpenSolaris isn't Free
anymore), nor promises they made themselves (see the Java Community
Process hubub)).
2) You can't really use Rails to deploy software to a client. It would
be possible, but it'd require providing some sort of client software,
and at that point you can use something simpler than use a web
framework (like password protected directories accessed via a GUI that
enables easy installation; similar to MS's Web Platform Installer, or
Ubuntu's Aptitude).
The question is: What is it you want to achieve?
--
Phillip Gawlowski
Though the folk I have met,
(Ah, how soon!) they forget
When I've moved on to some other place,
There may be one or two,
When I've played and passed through,
Who'll remember my song or my face.
Hi Phillip,
What I want to create is a database that can measure the performance of
all entities in a school district. The closest software that exhibits
some semblance is that of Microsoft Access. Where, as I understand it,
the input entry of a single data can be housed and then derived, through
a set of queries, then further analyzed through/by Microsoft Solver
software.
The difference with my proposal would be that based on selected
indicators [which will be dynamically influenced by changed event(s) and
policy(ies], which would be able to measure success. I have been exposed
to a statistical software named SPSS and having worked as an economist,
has influenced my outlook on creating an approach/database/software
which would indicate in real time, measured results.
As you can tell, there is an element of nervousness regarding saying
too much. But on the other hand, if not much is said, not much help can
be given. So it's a "catch 24", where since the last 20 years I have
been improving on a systems that would be able to measure defined
academic output, vis-a-vis, financial constraints etc..
Mike Stephens recommended Mendix as a possible solution to my woes. Do
you know of such arena?
Therefore, I figured that, doing it all by myself may be the best
solution. However, some of my concerns are: "Why reinvent the wheel?',
How can I create a sustainable system that does not compromise quality?,
What curriculum structure should I follow that will meet my needs
without, straying from my goals?
Therefore, this is my dilemma, which seems to be going in circles. Any
suggestions.
···
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> > wrote:
The first thing I would do for something like this (taking the pragmatic approach), is design your information schema. You need to design (not code) your schema such that it provides the kind of analysis you are after with the least amount of work. It also needs to be flexible in the sense that you will inevitably want to start storing new kinds of information, and analysing the data you have in new ways. The data is, after all, the basis and purpose of your application.
Whatever you decide to do it in, and I am guessing you will end up with a conventional relational and hopefully free database, you can assume that it will be comprised of tables. Tables will contain fields. The tables and their fields will represent some encapsulation of an entity. The tables, and the fields therein, will have relationships with other tables and their fields which will provide you with the basis for your analysis and reporting.
If you are looking to roll your sleeves up and actually get started, do so at the data end. In that scope the collection, presentation, and reporting layers are largely irrelevant, that is to say; your data store shouldn't really care what is accessing it. Avoid the IDE and framework religious wars, don't bother with logos and About Us pages. Dive into your data store schema with a pencil and a notepad today. Anybody here who has used a database of some kind (and there appear to be plenty), will be able to help you turn your sketch into a real implementable schema. Of course, you will inevitably have to wade through ever more esoteric hooha about the specifics of that implementation ;]
Pretty much I'm saying that I'm not a rocket scientist, and if I wanted to build a rocket, I would intuitively start with determining how I would power it.
Sam
···
On 09/02/11 05:12, Hilary Bailey wrote:
What I want to create is a product that is computer accessible, that is
similar to a teacher's Grade Keeper, but goes farther by adding defined
info from principals, guidance counselors, lunch provision for students,
etc.. The reason for this approach is that this will now allow more
complete view of a what impacts a child.
Therefore, the daily entry of data from all participants (teachers,
principals, security, janitors, etc...) will give an analyzer a wider
set of defined parameter inputed data to access, then analyze. The
problem is where to start. I read a book on Ruby, some say that my next
step is to play with scripts, alter some commands and then test such
adjustments. The problems is to follow a logical sequence of learning.
For example, since i use Windows 7, have installed Ruby 1.9.2 p.136 and
Rails, Vim7.2, and LibreOffice 3.3. and saved info to htmldog.com from
which HTML& CSS can be learned.
I know very well that it will take me some time, however, now where do I
start? Should I star with htmldog tutorials, then open Rails along with
vim7.2, then the next stage will be to explore SQlite, then MYSQL, while
having LibreOffice Base as a source of reference?
In terms of distribution, giving it away free will not be taken
seriously by current educational administrators and policy makers. It
suits me to market it and if successful, support this community plus
other social causes of choice.
So based on all that have been said, where, specifically (if possible)
go from here in creating such a product.
a. Learn the basics of SQL
b. Learn how to design a schema, use it to create a database, get a
large sample dataset into that database and perform complex queries
c. Get your analytical software written to work with the result sets
from those queries
d. Write some ruby code to tie all the above together.
At this point you have a solid commandline application that will do
your data analysis. *Now* you can look at putting a UI to it - learn
HTML, CSS and Javascript for the frontend, and Rails or whatever for
the backend. Start by having a small web form that lets the user enter
some simple search and limit criteria, does the data analysis, and
returns the results as a webpage. Proceed from there.
If you are planning on forming a company to do this, another option
would be to talk a programmer friend into doing some work on it in his
spare time, in return for stock.
martin
···
On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:
Therefore at this point I think that I have gathered a whole lot of
valuable information from a great community. My approach will be to
attack my dream with the following curriculum:
a)as described by Phillip G -Pick up the necessities of HTML,
CSS, and JavaScript - Learn about application security (this is very,
very important on the internet!)- Learn about deployment options for
Rails.
b) as mentioned by Shern - Check out <http://htmldog.com
c) as noted by Guecker928 - (during the learning process),
seek-out a marketing\legal\strategic plan.
d) As the whole community have said - take time and avoid
shortcuts.
Can you refer a site where I can download SQL with its tutorial/guide?
SQL isn't a product that you can download, it's a language that's used
in *many* database products. SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL, and PostgreSQL
are some of the more popular.
As Sherm pointed out, SQL is a language/product. MySQL and Postgres are probably the easiest to come by, in that mySQL is available in a free edition (I think postgres is also).
For learning mySQL, I like Ben Rota's MySQL Crash Course, which can be had fairly inexpensively. But there are countless titles that introduct/teach SQL.
cheers,
Bill
···
On Feb 13, 2011, at 11:22 AM, Hilary Bailey wrote:
Thanks Martin,
Can you refer a site where I can download SQL with its tutorial/guide?
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@aliax.net> wrote:
I'm really surprised as this thread has become really long even if it
has nothing to do with Ruby.
Ok, I must choice between Open and Renault, any help?
--
Phillip Gawlowski
Though the folk I have met,
(Ah, how soon!) they forget
When I've moved on to some other place,
There may be one or two,
When I've played and passed through,
Who'll remember my song or my face.
Phillip Gawlowski wrote in post #980112:
>>
>> I know that there are many surprises and my writing shows an innocence,
>> which will eventually receive a "reality check". But in the meantime,
>> based on my line of thinking, can anyone advice me on 1) the difference
>> between the suites mentioned above and 2) my plan of action in deploying
>> such product.
>
> There is, for now, little difference between OpenOffice and
> LibreOffice, seeing as LibreOffice forked only recently off of
> Oracle's code base.
>
> Considering, however, that pretty much all of the former OpenOffice
> developers went over to LibreOffice, I'd stick with that. Especially
> since Oracle hasn't shown so far to be trustworthy (3 OSS projects
> have "split" from Oracle already: MySQL -> MariaDB, Hudson CI ->
> Jenkins CI, OpenOffice -> LibreOffice; and Oracle isn't one to honor
> promises, either made by their acquisitions (OpenSolaris isn't Free
> anymore), nor promises they made themselves (see the Java Community
> Process hubub)).
>
> 2) You can't really use Rails to deploy software to a client. It would
> be possible, but it'd require providing some sort of client software,
> and at that point you can use something simpler than use a web
> framework (like password protected directories accessed via a GUI that
> enables easy installation; similar to MS's Web Platform Installer, or
> Ubuntu's Aptitude).
>
>
> The question is: What is it you want to achieve?
>
> --
> Phillip Gawlowski
>
> Though the folk I have met,
> (Ah, how soon!) they forget
> When I've moved on to some other place,
> There may be one or two,
> When I've played and passed through,
> Who'll remember my song or my face.
Hi Phillip,
What I want to create is a database that can measure the performance of
all entities in a school district. The closest software that exhibits
some semblance is that of Microsoft Access. Where, as I understand it,
the input entry of a single data can be housed and then derived, through
a set of queries, then further analyzed through/by Microsoft Solver
software.
The difference with my proposal would be that based on selected
indicators [which will be dynamically influenced by changed event(s) and
policy(ies], which would be able to measure success. I have been exposed
to a statistical software named SPSS
Hi Hilary:
Semi-off topic but.... Exists PSPP (free, libre) for users of proprietary
program SPSS
has influenced my outlook on creating an approach/database/software
which would indicate in real time, measured results.
As you can tell, there is an element of nervousness regarding saying
···
2011/2/7 Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> > > wrote:
too much. But on the other hand, if not much is said, not much help can
be given. So it's a "catch 24", where since the last 20 years I have
been improving on a systems that would be able to measure defined
academic output, vis-a-vis, financial constraints etc..
Mike Stephens recommended Mendix as a possible solution to my woes. Do
you know of such arena?
Therefore, I figured that, doing it all by myself may be the best
solution. However, some of my concerns are: "Why reinvent the wheel?',
How can I create a sustainable system that does not compromise quality?,
What curriculum structure should I follow that will meet my needs
without, straying from my goals?
Therefore, this is my dilemma, which seems to be going in circles. Any
suggestions.
Hi Phillip,
What I want to create is a database that can measure the performance of
all entities in a school district. The closest software that exhibits
some semblance is that of Microsoft Access. Where, as I understand it,
the input entry of a single data can be housed and then derived, through
a set of queries, then further analyzed through/by Microsoft Solver
software.
That's a feature all relational databases share: You store data, query
the data, and do something with the results.
However, you don't *need* Access (which is an expensive toy to deploy
software on for a school) for that, but a plain' ol' database.
Investigate SQLite (excellent for "embedded" databases, since it's
light-weight and can be used from pretty much every programming
language, and is Public Domain) if you want to write software that
ends up on a PC, or whatever is popular on the web: MySQL/MariaDB or
PostgreSQL.
The difference with my proposal would be that based on selected
indicators [which will be dynamically influenced by changed event(s) and
policy(ies], which would be able to measure success. I have been exposed
to a statistical software named SPSS and having worked as an economist,
has influenced my outlook on creating an approach/database/software
which would indicate in real time, measured results.
Sounds like a standard use-case for OLAP:
Mike Stephens recommended Mendix as a possible solution to my woes. Do
you know of such arena?
I don't trust tools that claim to write software for you.
Mind, a visual tool can be very helpful (I like to easily visualize
SQL databases and their key relations, for example), but I'm quite
sure that Mendix itself won't help you in your case: There's no
business process per se in what you want to roll out, and all those
"UML to Software" tools have fallen flat, requiring manual
"optimization".
Therefore, I figured that, doing it all by myself may be the best
solution. However, some of my concerns are: "Why reinvent the wheel?',
How can I create a sustainable system that does not compromise quality?,
What curriculum structure should I follow that will meet my needs
without, straying from my goals?
Therefore, this is my dilemma, which seems to be going in circles. Any
suggestions.
Yes. Incorporate a business before too long, and start looking for a
technical co-founder now. What you want to do isn't impossible for a
single person. Said person needs a bit of experience in a lot of
technologies. While you can grab database engines, libraries, etc. off
the shelf, you have to check licensing (Anything GPL licensed will
*force* you to publish your own source code, for example, while the
LGPL doesn't have this problem), learn and deal with a lot of
technologies (databases, client / server computing or web programming,
OLAP, reporting, data entry), which is... well, just a tad much to get
started with a business of any sort.
And you have a good litmus test for a technical person: Can they and
do they want to teach you to code.
Mind, you should find a technical person you can, push comes to shove,
bind with an NDA either way, simply to buy expertise in rather tough
areas that you shouldn't deal with as a beginner, like application
security (doubly so if you want to launch a website!).
···
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:55 AM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:
--
Phillip Gawlowski
Though the folk I have met,
(Ah, how soon!) they forget
When I've moved on to some other place,
There may be one or two,
When I've played and passed through,
Who'll remember my song or my face.
What I want to create is a database that can measure the performance of
all entities in a school district.
Your question is interesting because unlike almost all others on this
forum, you have no real committment to Ruby. You're just looking for the
easiest route to solving your problem.
As a result it rather depends precisely what your problem is.
A database cannot measure performance. You might mean you would like to
capture something like grade performance and then analyse that by
teacher, course, school, curriculum, student entry grading - various
things like that.
The issue is do you want to do that yourself, sell a package that other
groups could use, or set up a web site that offers a central service?
These involve very different challenges and skill requirements.
By the way Access is brilliant - I've never seen another database come
close. I understand Bill Gates had a soft spot for it. It's a half
decent relational database (Jet) but more than that it is a Query By
Example environment. After that it does reports and forms etc.
Access (like Excel) is a functional programming environment. Personally
I think it is easier to pick these up than OO platforms like Ruby.
However, Access (like Excel) is no good for Web deployment simply
because
Microsoft went off down the geeky .NET and Sharepoint routes and left
simple folk high-and-dry.
Bear in mind Phillip's remarks about Mendix are without any knowledge of
it.
Sam Duncan wrote in post #980397:
Sam, I think you are correct in your assessment. In terms of the
database, should I indulge in LibreOffice Base or use Sqlite/SQL? After
such decision,is it possible to add components from PSPP and LibreOffice
spreadsheet plus others, to create a software? In other words, just like
making a car, where we add different parts to create a product, can the
same logic be used to create a software.
The first thing I would do for something like this (taking the pragmatic
···
approach), is design your information schema. You need to design (not
code) your schema such that it provides the kind of analysis you are
after with the least amount of work. It also needs to be flexible in the
sense that you will inevitably want to start storing new kinds of
information, and analysing the data you have in new ways. The data is,
after all, the basis and purpose of your application.
Whatever you decide to do it in, and I am guessing you will end up with
a conventional relational and hopefully free database, you can assume
that it will be comprised of tables. Tables will contain fields. The
tables and their fields will represent some encapsulation of an entity.
The tables, and the fields therein, will have relationships with other
tables and their fields which will provide you with the basis for your
analysis and reporting.
If you are looking to roll your sleeves up and actually get started, do
so at the data end. In that scope the collection, presentation, and
reporting layers are largely irrelevant, that is to say; your data store
shouldn't really care what is accessing it. Avoid the IDE and framework
religious wars, don't bother with logos and About Us pages. Dive into
your data store schema with a pencil and a notepad today. Anybody here
who has used a database of some kind (and there appear to be plenty),
will be able to help you turn your sketch into a real implementable
schema. Of course, you will inevitably have to wade through ever more
esoteric hooha about the specifics of that implementation ;]
Pretty much I'm saying that I'm not a rocket scientist, and if I wanted
to build a rocket, I would intuitively start with determining how I
would power it.
