Anyone interested In IronRuby

ruby-talk
1

Hello,

I am coming from Dot Net World, now totally into IronRuby.

IronRuby is a Dot Net Version of Ruby that works on DLR ( Dynamic
layer RunTime ) with all advantages of Ruby plus Dot Net Framework.

With IronRuby, you get best of both the worlds. Ruby and Dot Net. You
can also work with Ruby On Rails as well as Asp.Net with Ruby as your
coding language. isn't that great.

You can also work with MVC as well as LINQ.

you always have a great IDE like Visual Studio and Express

Products for working with Ruby.

Now... there is no need to work with Vb.Net or Boring C#

More details are here...
official site for IronRuby development

http://rubyforge.org/projects/ironruby/

The site of the creator of IronRuby ( Mr. John lam ) who works for
Microsoft for developing IronRuby.

Small site with informative material
http://www.ironruby.net/

A good blogging site for IronRuby with updated material on Ruby and
IronRuby

http://ironruby.blogspot.com/

···

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to know, how many folks here are waiting to start with
IronRuby and how many have already implemented this in one or another
way.

Is there a sub section or a seperate group in this forum for Ironruby.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please join this thread with yoiur information, so that we can start
an IronRuby Group that deals with Ruby and Dot Net in depth.

Thanks

IronRuby

2

IronRuby wrote:

I would like to know, how many folks here are waiting to start with
IronRuby and how many have already implemented this in one or another
way.

I've been meaning to dig into it for a little while now, but haven't had time yet.

Is there a sub section or a seperate group in this forum for Ironruby.

http://rubyforge.org/mail/?group_id=4359

···

--
Alex

3

I'm currently involved in the design of a large C# application
developed by my company, which is fully scriptable (currently) in
IronPython. As a strong Ruby advocate, I plan to fully support
IronRuby as well as soon as the DLR is released and feeling solid.

···

On Sep 26, 11:47 pm, IronRuby <rubyguja...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would like to know, how many folks here are waiting to start with
IronRuby and how many have already implemented this in one or another
way.

4

I tried to install IronRuby twice yesterday, and failed both times. The
first I got from some website like Yasu labs or something like that.
Tried to follow the steps to building it. no luck there. The second try
was from getting the source from SVN and doing the video tutoiral. Again
fail :frowning:

I work with VB.NET and ASP.NET here at work, but I would rather use ruby
where possible, so if I can get this thing working, then I'm down.

Or until I can get a job working with the real thing :slight_smile:

~Jeremy

···

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

5

I am a little curious about Iron Ruby. I did some work with C#.net but
my interest faded for some reason or another. I really am very fond of
Ruby's feel. Learning Ruby kind of feels to me like getting acquainted
with a person you get along with very well. I find myself looking for
problems that Ruby would be good at solving, mainly to get more
acquainted with what its like to work with Ruby.
Squeezing Ruby through Microsofts CLR (or whatever its called) to make
it conform to .NET, is sort of like taking a friend and turning them
into a Borg or something (appropriately named IronRuby)...resistance
is futile!.
IronRuby can probably still get the job done, but the personality
will be a bit stiff, and not quite as friendly. But we shall see.

Jayson

···

On 9/27/07, Alex Young <alex@blackkettle.org> wrote:

IronRuby wrote:
> I would like to know, how many folks here are waiting to start with
> IronRuby and how many have already implemented this in one or another
> way.
I've been meaning to dig into it for a little while now, but haven't had
time yet.

> Is there a sub section or a seperate group in this forum for Ironruby.
http://rubyforge.org/mail/?group_id=4359

--
Alex

6

Is IronRuby just like Ruby except you get the .Net platform?

If not, has MS contributed anything of what they have done to
"improve" the language to the ruby community?

Or If it is just like ruby + .Net, why didnt MS work with the
community to make the .Net stuff an extension to the real ruby,
instead of taking from the community and locking it to their platform?

Is this history repeating itself ? We don't like java because it is
controlled by sun. We cant make any money from it so lets take all the
good ideas sun has worked out do some improvements and call it our
own. (C#)
Or is it like... the list goes on and on.

Sorry about my grumpy attitude towards MS, but over the years I have
seen so much foul play from that company, so sometimes I feel the need
to cry out :slight_smile:

···

On 9/28/07, Phrogz <phrogz@mac.com> wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:47 pm, IronRuby <rubyguja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would like to know, how many folks here are waiting to start with
> IronRuby and how many have already implemented this in one or another
> way.

I'm currently involved in the design of a large C# application
developed by my company, which is fully scriptable (currently) in
IronPython. As a strong Ruby advocate, I plan to fully support
IronRuby as well as soon as the DLR is released and feeling solid.

7

Jeremy Woertink wrote:

I tried to install IronRuby twice yesterday, and failed both times.

It can be done (I've done it). However, bear in mind that IronRuby is
quite a young project. If you want a smooth and satisfying installing
and programming experience, I would suggest that you wait a while longer
until the project is a little more mature.

Suffice to say, we are watching closely... :slight_smile:

best wishes
Huw Collingbourne

SapphireSteel Software
Ruby and Rails In Visual Studio
http://www.sapphiresteel.com

···

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

8

Read the links that started this thread, and:

http://www.wilcob.com/Wilco/IronRuby/microsoft_ironruby.aspx

···

On Sep 27, 8:53 pm, "Rikard Lindby" <rlin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is IronRuby just like Ruby except you get the .Net platform?

9

Although I am a Ruby apprentice and had not contributed anything other than
spreading the words about Ruby,
I agree 1000% with Rikard.
Microsoft is like a symbiotic parasite that eats and eats until the host is
completely gone!
I still remember back on the '80s when MS robbed a small company I think
name Stacker, of their only way of making money. It was a compression
software (back when a 20MB HD was a luxurious) for DOS. Later they robbed
Internet Explorer from one guy (not even a company, but from one guy).
I can probably fill couple pages with the name of stolen software components
that made Bill Gate and MS billionaire!
I only use any MS product when I am forced to do so.
Ah one more thing, it does not bother me when people around the world run
pirate copies of MS software.
There is a Spanish say that states: "Ladrón que le roba a otro ladrón tiene
100 años de perdón", badly translated, without any rhyme, to English: "A
thief that stills from another thief deserves 100 years of pardon"

Oh well!

···

On 9/27/07, Rikard Lindby <rlindby@gmail.com> wrote:

Is IronRuby just like Ruby except you get the .Net platform?

If not, has MS contributed anything of what they have done to
"improve" the language to the ruby community?

Or If it is just like ruby + .Net, why didnt MS work with the
community to make the .Net stuff an extension to the real ruby,
instead of taking from the community and locking it to their platform?

Is this history repeating itself ? We don't like java because it is
controlled by sun. We cant make any money from it so lets take all the
good ideas sun has worked out do some improvements and call it our
own. (C#)
Or is it like... the list goes on and on.

Sorry about my grumpy attitude towards MS, but over the years I have
seen so much foul play from that company, so sometimes I feel the need
to cry out :slight_smile:

On 9/28/07, Phrogz <phrogz@mac.com> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 11:47 pm, IronRuby <rubyguja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would like to know, how many folks here are waiting to start with
> > IronRuby and how many have already implemented this in one or another
> > way.
>
> I'm currently involved in the design of a large C# application
> developed by my company, which is fully scriptable (currently) in
> IronPython. As a strong Ruby advocate, I plan to fully support
> IronRuby as well as soon as the DLR is released and feeling solid.
>
>
>

10

Rikard Lindby wrote:

Is IronRuby just like Ruby except you get the .Net platform?

As I understand it, that's pretty much the intention, at least on a language level. I *think* the intention is also to give Visual Studio support, but I'm not sure about that.

If not, has MS contributed anything of what they have done to
"improve" the language to the ruby community?

They've opened the source to their implementation (for certain values of "open" - there's still some aggro at the OSI about that), and they're working with Novell to get the DLR working on Mono.

Or If it is just like ruby + .Net, why didnt MS work with the
community to make the .Net stuff an extension to the real ruby,
instead of taking from the community and locking it to their platform?

Licensing, in a word. At least, that's the explanation that makes most sense to me...

···

--
Alex

11

Hi All,

Interesting subject... I've been a .Net developer since the beta days
and really like both VB.Net and C#. However, all that said you can
understand when I heard about IronRuby it tweaked my interest. An
interpreted language implementation running in .Net. And the language,
Ruby was and is getting high marks from most of the developers I've
listened to.

So, for the last couple of months I've been learning all the Ruby and
IronRuby that I can work into my schedule. To me Ruby appears to be a
language I could enjoy working with, but that's not my main reason I'm
studying the subject.

My job allows me to chose the tools I need to get most projects done.
However, with that freedom comes the responsibility of being able to not
only complete the project, but also maintain the code and add new
features in the future. This can be difficult and the concise syntax is
used in Ruby really appeals to me!

So... I like what I see in Ruby for the following reasons.

1 - Microsoft is doing a Ruby language implementation call IronRuby.

2 - Matz's Ruby is here today, and can do applications on both Windows
and Linux operating systems. (Our clients may specify the operating
system.)

3 - The Rails framework exists for web projects.

4 - Ruby is well documented. The Ruby publications are EXCELLENT. I
own "Ruby for Rails" by David A. Black, "Programming Ruby" (The Pick
Axe), 2nd edition, "Rails Recipes" by Chad Fowler, and "Agile Web
Development with Rails" by Dave Thomas and DHH.

5 - The web stuff including video and pod-casts like...
http://railscasts.com/, http://peepcode.com/

7 - The Ruby In Steel Visual Studio plug-in for Ruby and Rails
projects.
http://www.sapphiresteel.com/
(Did I mention that I love Microsoft's Visual Studio IDE??? Your a
pretty cool guy Mac, but I still prefer Visual Studio... :slight_smile:

6 - It's fun to learn a new language:-)

OK enough said... I like Ruby and I especially appreciate all that the
community has done to help bring us newbies along:-)

Bill Plummer

PS: One tiny comment about "taking a friend and turning them into a
Borg" by implementing the language through the CLR. If Jon Lam does his
job right, we won't know whether we are using Matz's Ruby or Microsoft's
IronRuby. Wait a minute, I'm in Visual Studio..., now is this Matz's
Ruby using the Ruby In Steel plug-in or is it Microsoft's IronRuby
running in the DLR??? It's so confusing... What's a developer to do...
So many choices!!! :slight_smile:

···

On Fri, 2007-09-28 at 05:59 +0900, Jayson Williams wrote:

I am a little curious about Iron Ruby. I did some work with C#.net but
my interest faded for some reason or another. I really am very fond of
Ruby's feel. Learning Ruby kind of feels to me like getting acquainted
with a person you get along with very well. I find myself looking for
problems that Ruby would be good at solving, mainly to get more
acquainted with what its like to work with Ruby.
Squeezing Ruby through Microsofts CLR (or whatever its called) to make
it conform to .NET, is sort of like taking a friend and turning them
into a Borg or something (appropriately named IronRuby)...resistance
is futile!.
IronRuby can probably still get the job done, but the personality
will be a bit stiff, and not quite as friendly. But we shall see.

Jayson

On 9/27/07, Alex Young <alex@blackkettle.org> wrote:
> IronRuby wrote:
> > I would like to know, how many folks here are waiting to start with
> > IronRuby and how many have already implemented this in one or another
> > way.
> I've been meaning to dig into it for a little while now, but haven't had
> time yet.
>
> > Is there a sub section or a seperate group in this forum for Ironruby.
> http://rubyforge.org/mail/?group_id=4359
>
> --
> Alex
>
>

12

This is a bit OT, I'm sorry for that. No flame intended, only my opinion.

I'm not a fan of Microsoft at all, but one thing is crystal clear: Microsoft
is a company. It's goal is to make money, the more the best, and other
"good" companies (IBM, Sun, Oracle, Google) have the same goal, even if they
usually help the OSS community. It's a matter of fact that Microsoft has
stolen nearly a half of his killer-apps, but I think .NET is their best idea
in years: *theorically* is multi-platform -the Mono guys are working a lot-,
and it allows to inter-communicate a lot of languages, and only for that
IronRuby deserves all my respect: I could work within a C# project almost
perfectly with my favourite programming language without a lot of headaches
defining wrappers for passing around my data between different languages.

If someone is "stolen" by Microsoft he doesn't became "the enemy"
automatically, think in Van Rossum, who works for Google and nobody has
complaint yet :slight_smile:

About Spanish sayings, I know another: "Al cuco no cuques y al ladrón no
hurtes" :wink: (don't steal a thief and don't make cuckoo to the cuckoo(¿?) ).
And the last for today, a bit gross, "Hombre refranero, maricón embustero"
:-p

···

On 9/28/07, Victor Reyes <victor.reyes@gmail.com> wrote:

Although I am a Ruby apprentice and had not contributed anything other
than
spreading the words about Ruby,
I agree 1000% with Rikard.
Microsoft is like a symbiotic parasite that eats and eats until the host
is
completely gone!
I still remember back on the '80s when MS robbed a small company I think
name Stacker, of their only way of making money. It was a compression
software (back when a 20MB HD was a luxurious) for DOS. Later they robbed
Internet Explorer from one guy (not even a company, but from one guy).
I can probably fill couple pages with the name of stolen software
components
that made Bill Gate and MS billionaire!
I only use any MS product when I am forced to do so.
Ah one more thing, it does not bother me when people around the world run
pirate copies of MS software.
There is a Spanish say that states: "Ladrón que le roba a otro ladrón
tiene
100 años de perdón", badly translated, without any rhyme, to English: "A
thief that stills from another thief deserves 100 years of pardon"

Oh well!

On 9/27/07, Rikard Lindby <rlindby@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is IronRuby just like Ruby except you get the .Net platform?
>
> If not, has MS contributed anything of what they have done to
> "improve" the language to the ruby community?
>
> Or If it is just like ruby + .Net, why didnt MS work with the
> community to make the .Net stuff an extension to the real ruby,
> instead of taking from the community and locking it to their platform?
>
> Is this history repeating itself ? We don't like java because it is
> controlled by sun. We cant make any money from it so lets take all the
> good ideas sun has worked out do some improvements and call it our
> own. (C#)
> Or is it like... the list goes on and on.
>
>
> Sorry about my grumpy attitude towards MS, but over the years I have
> seen so much foul play from that company, so sometimes I feel the need
> to cry out :slight_smile:
>
> On 9/28/07, Phrogz <phrogz@mac.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 26, 11:47 pm, IronRuby <rubyguja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I would like to know, how many folks here are waiting to start with
> > > IronRuby and how many have already implemented this in one or
another
> > > way.
> >
> > I'm currently involved in the design of a large C# application
> > developed by my company, which is fully scriptable (currently) in
> > IronPython. As a strong Ruby advocate, I plan to fully support
> > IronRuby as well as soon as the DLR is released and feeling solid.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

13

I agree with Rikard in that MS has a bad track record. Still I would
like to think that they would be willing to work and play well with the
other children. The last time this thread arose here, it was thought
that MS would make all the source available as in other gems. I asked
the MS guy that was posting in that thread to confirm that and got no
reply. Hopefully someone can answer that.

That being said, I have another question. What exactly *is* dot net?
Why is it so fervently touted? At work, a MS devotee that was
contracting at work changed our setup from .NET 1.1 to 2.0 without
telling anyone. It brought down the entire data warehouse. Asking
around, I was told that every version of .NET released was not as
backward compatible as advertised. We know that MS releases software
that breaks existing apps. Vista even breaks MS' apps. We cannot
afford to use .NET unless new versions will not break old apps.

So, what is the word? What is it, why do we want it, and will it
actually work?

p.s. I do not mean this to be incendiary. I am having trouble getting
through the hype in all I read about .NET and never seem to get straight
answers and personal experience, while it may be caused more by idiots
than .NET, still makes my company worried enough to avoid .NET until
they can answer this. Please read this as an attempt to find a way to
embrace the technology if I can find a way to do so not a flame against
MS.

···

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

14

But many of us are curious about developments at MS. We all know how well they follow standards. Standard C++ compiles so well with Visual Studio!

But seriously, Ruby books are usually exceptionally good. Made even more so when compared to any book published by MS!
Bill, you might have missed your calling. You really write like a marketing person, very good marketing copy! If Microsoft is still paying bloggers, you might want to see if they'll hook you up. What could be better than getting paid for posting what you like?

···

On Sep 28, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Bill Plummer wrote:

Interesting subject... I've been a .Net developer since the beta days
and really like both VB.Net and C#. However, all that said you can
understand when I heard about IronRuby it tweaked my interest. An
interpreted language implementation running in .Net. And the language,
Ruby was and is getting high marks from most of the developers I've
listened to.

So, for the last couple of months I've been learning all the Ruby and
IronRuby that I can work into my schedule. To me Ruby appears to be a
language I could enjoy working with, but that's not my main reason I'm
studying the subject.

My job allows me to chose the tools I need to get most projects done.
However, with that freedom comes the responsibility of being able to not
only complete the project, but also maintain the code and add new
features in the future. This can be difficult and the concise syntax is
used in Ruby really appeals to me!

So... I like what I see in Ruby for the following reasons.

1 - Microsoft is doing a Ruby language implementation call IronRuby.

2 - Matz's Ruby is here today, and can do applications on both Windows
and Linux operating systems. (Our clients may specify the operating
system.)

3 - The Rails framework exists for web projects.

4 - Ruby is well documented. The Ruby publications are EXCELLENT. I
own "Ruby for Rails" by David A. Black, "Programming Ruby" (The Pick
Axe), 2nd edition, "Rails Recipes" by Chad Fowler, and "Agile Web
Development with Rails" by Dave Thomas and DHH.

5 - The web stuff including video and pod-casts like...
http://railscasts.com/, http://peepcode.com/

7 - The Ruby In Steel Visual Studio plug-in for Ruby and Rails
projects.
http://www.sapphiresteel.com/
(Did I mention that I love Microsoft's Visual Studio IDE??? Your a
pretty cool guy Mac, but I still prefer Visual Studio... :slight_smile:

6 - It's fun to learn a new language:-)

OK enough said... I like Ruby and I especially appreciate all that the
community has done to help bring us newbies along:-)

Bill Plummer

PS: One tiny comment about "taking a friend and turning them into a
Borg" by implementing the language through the CLR. If Jon Lam does his
job right, we won't know whether we are using Matz's Ruby or Microsoft's
IronRuby. Wait a minute, I'm in Visual Studio..., now is this Matz's
Ruby using the Ruby In Steel plug-in or is it Microsoft's IronRuby
running in the DLR??? It's so confusing... What's a developer to do...
So many choices!!! :slight_smile:

15

From: Alex Young [mailto:alex@blackkettle.org]

> Or If it is just like ruby + .Net, why didnt MS work with the
> community to make the .Net stuff an extension to the real ruby,
> instead of taking from the community and locking it to their
platform?
Licensing, in a word. At least, that's the explanation that makes most
sense to me...

MSFT did work quite a lot with me (aka the community) when I built the RubyCLR bridge (which, BTW is still out there and a viable alternative if folks want to use MRI and not IronRuby).

It's not a licensing issue. It's the fact that our customers want an implementation that runs natively on top of the .NET platform (aka CLR). This is exactly the same reason why folks want to run JRuby on top of the JVM.

Regardless of whether its JRuby, IronRuby or Rubinius (aka the alternative implementations), we're all bending over backwards to make sure that we stay true to the language. There are going to be a few corner cases where that is a difficult/impossible thing to do (cf continuations / performant ObjectSpace implementations), but we're all in this for the long run.

-John

PS responses will be delayed on this thread (if it continues) since I'm technically on vacation right now :slight_smile:

16

That being said, I have another question. What exactly *is* dot net?

A virtual machine (the Common Language Runtime). A very efficient one. ".Net" is the marketing term for the CLR and the frameworks that come with it.

Why is it so fervently touted?

Same reason Java is. In theory, write once, run anywhere there is a CLR.
You can write for .Net in C/C++/C#/Visual Basic/Delphi/Fortran/Cobol/Python/Ruby.

At work, a MS devotee that was
contracting at work changed our setup from .NET 1.1 to 2.0 without
telling anyone. It brought down the entire data warehouse.

That is possible. ECMA added some new opcodes (4 if I remember correctly) and those got implemented in .Net 2.0. So if you build your app with .Net 2.0 but then deployed that on a .Net 1.0/.Net 1.1 runtime that would fail. That is not a failure of backward compatibility, that is a failure caused by human stupidity.

.Net is backwards compatible - you can run 1.0 .Net apps on the 1.1 or 2.0 runtime. You can run 1.1 .Net apps on the 2.0 runtime.

Stephen

···

In message <ceaeb5774c3a7edc2ae35700193979f5@ruby-forum.com>, Lloyd Linklater <lloyd@2live4.com> writes
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting
Reg Office: 24 Windmill Walk, Sutton, Ely, Cambs CB6 2NH.

17

Lloyd Linklater wrote:

I agree with Rikard in that MS has a bad track record. Still I would like to think that they would be willing to work and play well with the other children. The last time this thread arose here, it was thought that MS would make all the source available as in other gems. I asked the MS guy that was posting in that thread to confirm that and got no reply. Hopefully someone can answer that.

It's not necessarily a matter of "willing to work and play well with the other children." Have you ever heard the phrase, "Don't sue anybody with more money that you have?" It really doesn't matter to me whether or not anything Microsoft does is licensed one way or another -- I use it when I have to and I don't use it when I have a viable alternative.

A year or so ago -- Curt, Austin, correct me if I'm wrong here -- Curt Hibbs and Austin Ziegler tried to get a sensible behavior from Microsoft so a "One-Click Installer" Ruby user could build gems containing C source using the no-cost-but-non-free Microsoft C compilers, along with building Ruby itself that way. It never happened, and I wonder if IronRuby is the reason. Perhaps Microsoft doesn't see the need for the regular open source MRI interpreter now that there's IronRuby on the CLR. No matter how "willing" Microsoft is to do things, there are always going to be things they don't do

18

and msys is still there...

a @ http://drawohara.com/

···

On Sep 28, 2007, at 7:42 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

A year or so ago -- Curt, Austin, correct me if I'm wrong here -- Curt Hibbs and Austin Ziegler tried to get a sensible behavior from Microsoft so a "One-Click Installer" Ruby user could build gems containing C source using the no-cost-but-non-free Microsoft C compilers, along with building Ruby itself that way. It never happened, and I wonder if IronRuby is the reason. Perhaps Microsoft doesn't see the need for the regular open source MRI interpreter now that there's IronRuby on the CLR. No matter how "willing" Microsoft is to do things, there are always going to be things they don't do

--
we can deny everything, except that we have the possibility of being better. simply reflect on that.
h.h. the 14th dalai lama

19

I originally brokered the meeting between Austin and the C++ folks. Since I joined the company I've had no communication at all with those guys. Personally, I'm amazed that folks believe that MSFT is actually organized enough to concoct conspiracies like this :slight_smile:

BTW, Austin/Curt what has happened with this? I'm under the impression that MRI compiles just fine using whatever version of C++ is in VS 2005?

-John

···

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky [mailto:znmeb@cesmail.net] wrote:

A year or so ago -- Curt, Austin, correct me if I'm wrong here -- Curt
Hibbs and Austin Ziegler tried to get a sensible behavior from
Microsoft
so a "One-Click Installer" Ruby user could build gems containing C
source using the no-cost-but-non-free Microsoft C compilers, along with
building Ruby itself that way. It never happened, and I wonder if
IronRuby is the reason. Perhaps Microsoft doesn't see the need for the
regular open source MRI interpreter now that there's IronRuby on the
CLR. No matter how "willing" Microsoft is to do things, there are
always
going to be things they don't do