[ANN] Tattle - The Ruby Census

ruby-talk
1

Greetings and Happy New Year, Rubyists!

At the first Rails Edge conference (http://therailsedge.com), Jim
Weirich, Bruce Williams, and I were chatting about how to improve the
RubyGems platform-specific behavior, when we realized that it would be
really helpful to have more info about the install footprint of the
Ruby community at large.

So instead of going right into hacking RubyGems as was our plan, we
created a little census tool and an accompanying web site to help us
collect information. Most of the info we collect is from
Config::CONFIG, with the addition of the RubyGems version.

We know this information will help the implementers of RubyGems, and
we hope it will also help Ruby implementers and library developers as
well.

To install:

$ sudo gem install tattle

To submit your info:

$ tattle

If you want to see what would be posted before posting, you can do:

$ tattle report

The information gets posted to http://tattle.rubygarden.org. You can
view the posted data with your web browser at that URL.

Thanks!
Chad Fowler
http://www.chadfowler.com

2

Greetings and Happy New Year, Rubyists!

At the first Rails Edge conference (http://therailsedge.com), Jim
Weirich, Bruce Williams, and I were chatting about how to improve the
RubyGems platform-specific behavior, when we realized that it would be
really helpful to have more info about the install footprint of the
Ruby community at large.

Note that this will help us complete the most-requested RubyGems feature, the install --platform option.

···

On Jan 8, 2007, at 13:00, Chad Fowler wrote:

We know this information will help the implementers of RubyGems, and
we hope it will also help Ruby implementers and library developers as
well.

To install:

$ sudo gem install tattle

To submit your info:

$ tattle

If you want to see what would be posted before posting, you can do:

$ tattle report

The information gets posted to http://tattle.rubygarden.org. You can
view the posted data with your web browser at that URL.

--
Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net

I LIT YOUR GEM ON FIRE!

3

Hi,

collect information. Most of the info we collect is from
Config::CONFIG, with the addition of the RubyGems version.

I find this a worthy cause, and shared my configuration options...
just to find out that I totally provided wrong information
about my system! :stuck_out_tongue:

Reason: Tattle uses Config::CONFIG, which is where the ruby was
compiled in, not what it is running on.

$ uname -a
Darwin 8.8.0 Darwin Kernel Version 8.8.0: Fri Sep 8 17:18:57 PDT 2006; root:xnu-792.12.6.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC Power Macintosh powerpc

But tattle reported `arch, powerpc-darwin8.4.0`, just so. I
compiled ruby before on that system, upgraded, and now spread
false information. :stuck_out_tongue:

Can happen, won't happen to many, just wanted to say so, how
clever your approach is, you might want to revise it a little? :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, very nice idea, happy to be of service providing info,
have a nice day.

Kashia

···

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: Opera Web Browser | Faster, Safer, Smarter | Opera

4

Chad Fowler wrote:

Greetings and Happy New Year, Rubyists!

At the first Rails Edge conference (http://therailsedge.com), Jim
Weirich, Bruce Williams, and I were chatting about how to improve the
RubyGems platform-specific behavior, when we realized that it would be
really helpful to have more info about the install footprint of the
Ruby community at large.

So instead of going right into hacking RubyGems as was our plan, we
created a little census tool and an accompanying web site to help us
collect information. Most of the info we collect is from
Config::CONFIG, with the addition of the RubyGems version.

We know this information will help the implementers of RubyGems, and
we hope it will also help Ruby implementers and library developers as
well.

To install:

$ sudo gem install tattle

To submit your info:

$ tattle

If you want to see what would be posted before posting, you can do:

$ tattle report

The information gets posted to http://tattle.rubygarden.org. You can
view the posted data with your web browser at that URL.

This is a great idea.

Are there plans to allow submission of a semi-anonymous collection of
internal census data from potentially thousands of internally managed
clients? Perhaps some way to submit to you directly a data file
containing a summation of the data submitted individually to tattle.

That --platform option sounds very interesting as does the whole
discussion of footprint.

5

Chad Fowler schrieb:

To install:

$ sudo gem install tattle

Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems?

Regards,
Pit

6

Chad Fowler wrote:

To submit your info:

$ tattle

sweet but it/ruby does not resolve through my proxy (even tho gems etc
does)...

Posting information to Tattle server. Thanks!
c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in `initialize': getaddrinfo: no
address associated with hostname. (SocketError)
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in `connect'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/timeout.rb:48:in `timeout'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/timeout.rb:76:in `timeout'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in `connect'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:553:in `do_start'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:542:in `start'
        from
c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/tattle-1.0.1/lib/tattle.rb:29:in `post'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/tattle-1.0.1/bin/tattle:14
        from c:/ruby/bin/tattle:18

Well, I gave a gracious effort and died in the trenches...

-stu

7

On a totally non-security related note, why doesn't the rubyforge home page forward to http://tattle.rubygarden.org/ ?

If I google for 'ruby tattle' I get the rubyforge project near the top. But no ruby garden page on the first page of results.

-Mat

···

On Jan 8, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Chad Fowler wrote:

The information gets posted to http://tattle.rubygarden.org. You can
view the posted data with your web browser at that URL.

Thanks!
Chad Fowler
http://www.chadfowler.com

8

Its still darwin 8, so gems for your version of ruby should work ok with gems compiled for any other darwin 8 version. If you built for darwin 8 but your uname -a now reported AIX that would be cause for alarm.

···

On Jan 8, 2007, at 14:21, Kashia Buch wrote:

Hi,

collect information. Most of the info we collect is from
Config::CONFIG, with the addition of the RubyGems version.

I find this a worthy cause, and shared my configuration options...
just to find out that I totally provided wrong information
about my system! :stuck_out_tongue:

Reason: Tattle uses Config::CONFIG, which is where the ruby was
compiled in, not what it is running on.

--
Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net

I LIT YOUR GEM ON FIRE!

9

Rob Muhlestein wrote:

Chad Fowler wrote:
  

Greetings and Happy New Year, Rubyists!

At the first Rails Edge conference (http://therailsedge.com), Jim
Weirich, Bruce Williams, and I were chatting about how to improve the
RubyGems platform-specific behavior, when we realized that it would be
really helpful to have more info about the install footprint of the
Ruby community at large.

So instead of going right into hacking RubyGems as was our plan, we
created a little census tool and an accompanying web site to help us
collect information. Most of the info we collect is from
Config::CONFIG, with the addition of the RubyGems version.

We know this information will help the implementers of RubyGems, and
we hope it will also help Ruby implementers and library developers as
well.

To install:

$ sudo gem install tattle

To submit your info:

$ tattle

If you want to see what would be posted before posting, you can do:

$ tattle report

The information gets posted to http://tattle.rubygarden.org. You can
view the posted data with your web browser at that URL.
    
This is a great idea.

Are there plans to allow submission of a semi-anonymous collection of
internal census data from potentially thousands of internally managed
clients? Perhaps some way to submit to you directly a data file
containing a summation of the data submitted individually to tattle.

That --platform option sounds very interesting as does the whole
discussion of footprint.

Yes, it's a great idea ... but ... you are going to get *very* biased statistics, because many Ruby users will be prohibited, either electronically or by organizational policy, from uploading such information.

···

--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, FBG, AB, PTA, PGS, MS, MNLP, NST, ACMC(P)
http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/

If God had meant for carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given rabbits fire.

10

Pit Capitain wrote:

Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems?

Or alternatively, why isn't hoe and rubyforge /in/ rubygems?

Later,

···

--
Bil Kleb
http://fun3d.larc.nasa.gov

11

Uh... because hoe is the single most awesome thing for ruby project development in the last 6 years? It is used in 5% of all rubygems. Get over it.

···

On Jan 9, 2007, at 4:29 AM, Pit Capitain wrote:

Chad Fowler schrieb:

To install:
$ sudo gem install tattle

Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems?

12

Proxy support is on the TODO list (in my head). You will be mourned.

Chad

···

On 1/9/07, stu <yakumo9275@gmail.com> wrote:

Chad Fowler wrote:
>
> To submit your info:
>
> $ tattle
>

sweet but it/ruby does not resolve through my proxy (even tho gems etc
does)...

Posting information to Tattle server. Thanks!
c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in `initialize': getaddrinfo: no
address associated with hostname. (SocketError)
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in `connect'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/timeout.rb:48:in `timeout'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/timeout.rb:76:in `timeout'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:560:in `connect'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:553:in `do_start'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:542:in `start'
        from
c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/tattle-1.0.1/lib/tattle.rb:29:in `post'
        from c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/tattle-1.0.1/bin/tattle:14
        from c:/ruby/bin/tattle:18

Well, I gave a gracious effort and died in the trenches...

13

We've talked about that. Wouldn't be too hard. Just need to do it.

Chad

···

On 1/8/07, Rob Muhlestein <rob@muhlestein.net> wrote:

Chad Fowler wrote:
> Greetings and Happy New Year, Rubyists!
>
> At the first Rails Edge conference (http://therailsedge.com), Jim
> Weirich, Bruce Williams, and I were chatting about how to improve the
> RubyGems platform-specific behavior, when we realized that it would be
> really helpful to have more info about the install footprint of the
> Ruby community at large.
>
> So instead of going right into hacking RubyGems as was our plan, we
> created a little census tool and an accompanying web site to help us
> collect information. Most of the info we collect is from
> Config::CONFIG, with the addition of the RubyGems version.
>
> We know this information will help the implementers of RubyGems, and
> we hope it will also help Ruby implementers and library developers as
> well.
>
> To install:
>
> $ sudo gem install tattle
>
> To submit your info:
>
> $ tattle
>
> If you want to see what would be posted before posting, you can do:
>
> $ tattle report
>
> The information gets posted to http://tattle.rubygarden.org. You can
> view the posted data with your web browser at that URL.

This is a great idea.

Are there plans to allow submission of a semi-anonymous collection of
internal census data from potentially thousands of internally managed
clients? Perhaps some way to submit to you directly a data file
containing a summation of the data submitted individually to tattle.

14

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

Yes, it's a great idea ... but ... you are going to get *very* biased statistics, because many Ruby users will be prohibited, either electronically or by organizational policy, from uploading such information.

Our place is medium-paranoid, and after doing a "tattle report",
I was comfortable doing a "tattle". So far, our IT Security folks
haven't rained down upon me like the CDA in Monsters Inc.

Regards,

···

--
Bil Kleb
http://kleb.tadalist.com/lists/public/427170

15

Good question!

Chad? :stuck_out_tongue:

···

On Jan 9, 2007, at 9:55 AM, Bil Kleb wrote:

Pit Capitain wrote:

Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems?

Or alternatively, why isn't hoe and rubyforge /in/ rubygems?

16

I think the question is "why is this neat tool useful only to the gem's
developer required to install the gem on end-user systems?"

So... why is that?

Ben

···

On Wed, Jan 10, 2007, Ryan Davis wrote:

>Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems?

Uh... because hoe is the single most awesome thing for ruby project
development in the last 6 years? It is used in 5% of all rubygems.
Get over it.

17

Hi,

Reason: Tattle uses Config::CONFIG, which is where the ruby was
compiled in, not what it is running on.

Its still darwin 8, so gems for your version of ruby should work ok with gems compiled for any other darwin 8 version. If you built for darwin 8 but your uname -a now reported AIX that would be cause for alarm.

of course it works, how would you live without ruby. :wink:

My point was merely that I was spreading false information, and others might
too. :stuck_out_tongue:

Jo

···

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Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: Opera Web Browser | Faster, Safer, Smarter | Opera

18

I think that's a fair question.

I'm not answering it, but it's a good question. :wink:

Seriously, worth a chat on rubygems-developers, I think.

Chad

···

On 1/9/07, Bil Kleb <Bil.Kleb@nasa.gov> wrote:

Pit Capitain wrote:
>
> Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems?

Or alternatively, why isn't hoe and rubyforge /in/ rubygems?

19

Ryan Davis schrieb:

Chad, why does tattle depend on the hoe and rubyforge gems?

Uh... because hoe is the single most awesome thing for ruby project development in the last 6 years? It is used in 5% of all rubygems. Get over it.

Plus this answer to Ben:

It sounds like you're complaining simply because it offends your sensibilities. If you have a problem with the way gems does dependencies, then file a bug with rubygems and/or offer them a well
tested patch. Otherwise, drop it as it doesn't matter one bit.

And:

... Without hoe as a dependency, the software packaged in a hoe-based
gem doesn't work 100%. But... you're a smart guy. You knew that.

Ho, ho, ho, calm down, Ryan, I didn't want to step on your toes or your "most awesome" project.

I haven't used hoe yet. From the little I remember of the announcements, it looked to me like a tool for the gem developer, not for the gem user. That's why I asked the question, just out of interest. Why did you think I was complaining? All I needed was a little "gem uninstall hoe" after running tattle. This is a small price to pay compared to all the work the rubygems people are doing. No problem for me.

After all the posts in this thread I still haven't got a clear answer to my original question yet. (So much for the signal to noise ratio.)

Eric wrote that hoe is necessary to be able to say "rake test", and that "gem install -t" doesn't work reliably. (BTW: I'm sure you've given him the same advice you gave Ben, namely to file a bug with rubygems, didn't you?) I'm not sure where I, as a tattle user, should execute "rake test", but I assume it is in the installation directory of the tattle gem. But in this directory I can also simply enter "testrb test" to run all the tattle tests. So it seems hoe is of not much use in this case.

You wrote that a gem developed with hoe needs hoe at runtime to work 100%. I did a little test:

   gem install tattle (plus hoe, plus rubyforge)
   remove the hoe dependency from the tattle gemspec
   gem uninstall hoe
   gem uninstall rubyforge
   run tattle unit tests (with "testrb test")
   run tattle report
   run tattle

It seems all is working well, even without hoe. So I'm still curious what services hoe offers to gems at runtime.

... Without hoe as a dependency, the software packaged in a hoe-based
gem doesn't work 100%. But... you're a smart guy. You knew that.

Seems I'm not. I'm still not knowing it.

Regards,
Pit

···

On Jan 9, 2007, at 4:29 AM, Pit Capitain wrote:

20

Bil Kleb wrote:

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

Yes, it's a great idea ... but ... you are going to get *very* biased statistics, because many Ruby users will be prohibited, either electronically or by organizational policy, from uploading such information.

Our place is medium-paranoid, and after doing a "tattle report",
I was comfortable doing a "tattle". So far, our IT Security folks
haven't rained down upon me like the CDA in Monsters Inc.

Regards,
--
Bil Kleb
Ruby Wish List

Yeah ... I would have no problem with what tattle sent to the web site on any of my three machines either. But it's better to check than run the risk of getting written up in a corporate setting. Most folks work in places that "tolerate" Internet use among employees but if you read the corporate policy, you'll find that there are a lot of things you can't do. Sending even that minuscule amount of system configuration info somewhere is most likely a no-no in a lot of companies.

···

--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, FBG, AB, PTA, PGS, MS, MNLP, NST, ACMC(P)
http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/

If God had meant for carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given rabbits fire.