[ANN] celsoft.com/Battery 0.1.1

Sean O'Dell [mailto:sean@celsoft.com] :

What I said was -- very clearly -- TESTS should be written to be
run in any arbitrary or random order. I didn't suggest that a
testing framework shouldn't be able to specify a particular test
running order. Frankly, I would love to be able to do:

   Test::Unit::Runner.order = :random

And *force* the tests to be run in a random order to ensure that
I am not introducing dependencies between test cases.

First of all, that's YOUR opinion. Don't force it on anyone.

I'm not forcing it on anyone[1], but it isn't my opinion only. Just
within the Ruby community, look how many people have suggested that
tests should be considered independent of one another. I would be
surprised if unit testing gurus would argue otherwise, except in
very specific and very limited cases.

You can't do that with Test/Unit right now, but you can certainly
access the list of tests in celsoft.com/Battery and randomize them
if you wish. Or put them alphabetically, etc. See how it gives you
the choice?

Except that cs/Battery is, except for this one "feature", bereft of
any other usable functionality. As I said in another email: your
time would have been better spent providing Nathaniel with a patch
to do what you want here: (1) alternate outputters -- e.g., YAML or
XML and (2) user-choosable test execution ordering. This would have
been far better than adding another test framework to the Ruby world
that doesn't actually have anything *useful* to offer over
Test::Unit.

Why are you arguing against any of this? You talk about how
alphabetic is fine, tell me to stop being arrogant, then in the
very same post ask for a specific way to order your tests! Do you
want to control the ordering or not? Make up your mind.

I'm arguing against your attitude, mostly, but with a strong helping
of trying to educate the obstinate ignoramus (that's you). In the
last few weeks, you've been exceedingly rude, obstinate, arrogant,
and ignorant to the point of turning people off. You may not care,
but you are mocked elseplace for your attitude and arrogance. I have
seen little indication that what you say, do, or write is taken
seriously at all -- I know that I don't, because you have
demonstrated that not only don't you know what you're talking about,
but you're arrogant about it to boot. Ugly? Yeah. But I'm calling it
as I see it.

-austin
[1] Actually, I am. I am currently heading up the development of
    stuff at work that includes extensive unit testing and TDD, and
    I have dictated that tests must be considered completely
    independent of one another.

···

--
austin ziegler * austin.ziegler@evault.com

Sean O'Dell [mailto:sean@celsoft.com] :
>> What I said was -- very clearly -- TESTS should be written to be
>> run in any arbitrary or random order. I didn't suggest that a
>> testing framework shouldn't be able to specify a particular test
>> running order. Frankly, I would love to be able to do:
>>
>> Test::Unit::Runner.order = :random
>>
>> And *force* the tests to be run in a random order to ensure that
>> I am not introducing dependencies between test cases.
>
> First of all, that's YOUR opinion. Don't force it on anyone.

I'm not forcing it on anyone[1], but it isn't my opinion only. Just
within the Ruby community, look how many people have suggested that
tests should be considered independent of one another. I would be
surprised if unit testing gurus would argue otherwise, except in
very specific and very limited cases.

Look how many people wish they could order their tests.

> You can't do that with Test/Unit right now, but you can certainly
> access the list of tests in celsoft.com/Battery and randomize them
> if you wish. Or put them alphabetically, etc. See how it gives you
> the choice?

Except that cs/Battery is, except for this one "feature", bereft of
any other usable functionality. As I said in another email: your
time would have been better spent providing Nathaniel with a patch
to do what you want here: (1) alternate outputters -- e.g., YAML or
XML and (2) user-choosable test execution ordering. This would have
been far better than adding another test framework to the Ruby world
that doesn't actually have anything *useful* to offer over
Test::Unit.

I only use celsoft.com/Battery when I do unit testing, although I don't really
do unit testing that much, and it works fantastic for me with it does. The
one thing I've really found useful is the YAML output. I actually set up a
little battery of tests for a server I admin that I execute remotely over
ssh, and I have several different actions taken based on the output parsed
back on my end. But also, I find that being able to define a test as a proc,
and being able to add that one test to any number of batteries, lets me run
the same test in several different series. So, while I can understand your
ire and wishing celsoft.com/Battery were bereft of functionality, I know it's
just you getting personal again.

> Why are you arguing against any of this? You talk about how
> alphabetic is fine, tell me to stop being arrogant, then in the
> very same post ask for a specific way to order your tests! Do you
> want to control the ordering or not? Make up your mind.

I'm arguing against your attitude, mostly, but with a strong helping
of trying to educate the obstinate ignoramus (that's you). In the
last few weeks, you've been exceedingly rude, obstinate, arrogant,
and ignorant to the point of turning people off. You may not care,
but you are mocked elseplace for your attitude and arrogance. I have
seen little indication that what you say, do, or write is taken
seriously at all -- I know that I don't, because you have
demonstrated that not only don't you know what you're talking about,
but you're arrogant about it to boot. Ugly? Yeah. But I'm calling it
as I see it.

Do you honestly think this is high school, and I'm worried if the cool crowd
is making fun of my in gym class? I can't believe I'm even responding to you
this is so entirely juvenile.

  Sean

···

On Monday 14 June 2004 11:06, Austin Ziegler wrote: