Totally lost in learning Ruby

Stu1 · 22 January 2011 22:51

Actually why is this being done in-house as opposed to outsourcing it
from a professional is a better question.

···

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Jose Hales-Garcia <jose@stat.ucla.edu> wrote:

Hilary Bailey wrote in post #976477:

Is there anyone out there that could make my experience to Ruby
practical and meaningful? As noted previously, I am a school teacher
trying to create an education database software for administrators and
teachers which will hold educational institutions accountable for the
performance of their school district. My only programming experience is
the confusion I had trying to read and comprehend the above sources that
do not offer a stable compiler or the appropriate programs that will go
hand in hand with their book or resource for Ruby.

A district-wide database and interface is not a trivial project. Coding
it from scratch is a challenge for a seasoned developer in any language.

Why do want to do it in Ruby and why are you doing it from scratch?

Jose
.......................................................
Jose Hales-Garcia
UCLA Department of Statistics

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

Hilary_Bailey2 · 23 January 2011 04:48

Shadowfirebird wrote in post #976488:

I don't mean to sound condescending, but if you've not programmed
before, perhaps you are underestimating the problem of jumping two
hurdles at once - learning to program, and learning the Ruby language.
Programming requires a paradigm-shift which, of course, is difficult to
explain to those who have not made it.

It sounds as if you have read a lot of books and got not much from them.
Why not try a different approach - try coding some simple programs for
yourself. If you are unable to access the Ruby interpreter, there are
websites that let you try it online (for example,http://tryruby.org/ ).

Go back to the book that you found least confusing and type out a couple
of examples for yourself. Try changing them. Code a simple program
from scratch -- say, to ask for a series of numbers at the command
prompt and print their sum.

And of course come back here and ask all the basic questions you like.
It's the basic questions that are the really deep ones. Good luck.

Shadowfirebird,
Thank you for the advice.

···

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

David_Masover · 23 January 2011 05:31

I was under the impression that after having some programing
language skilss and with some training I would be able to put together a
# of applications and build a program computer program. I thought that
just like how individuals could use some of Apple's apps, put them
together then build a game, I believed that eventually this could be
done with Ruby and its supportive/compatible applications.

I'm not sure quite what you mean here.

If you mean create a brand-new app from scratch using something like Apple's
Xcode tools, and then having a standalone app (without forcing people to
install Ruby), there are options for that. I haven't ever had to do this, but
the project that looks the coolest for this purpose is Rawr
(http://rawr.rubyforge.org/\).

If you mean take several existing apps and mash them together into a new app,
that really depends which apps you're talking about. It could be a five minute
job of writing the appropriate glue code, essentially snapping stuff together
like legos, or it could be a truly impossible task, like trying to attach an
aircraft carrier to a 747 and make a useful vehicle out of it when you don't
have access to the blueprints of either.

For what you described:

"I am a school teacher trying to create an education database software for
administrators and teachers which will hold educational institutions
accountable for the performance of their school district."

I'm guessing you mean the former -- you're wanting to build something from
scratch, and you were just wanting to know how to actually get an app out of
it, right?

I'd also imagine that this sort of thing would make more sense as a web app.
The advantages of that approach would be that you don't have to create an
installer and make sure it installs and runs properly on every single person's
computer, you just need to make sure they have a decent web browser.
Basically, you'd get to install whatever OS and software you want on whatever
server(s) it runs on, and to everyone else, it's just a website.

The main disadvantage is that it would be a _lot_ more of a learning curve --
you'd want to know at least HTML and CSS, if not also HTTP (easy) and
JavaScript, in addition to Ruby.

Now facing this reality, would it help if I used Linux instead of
Windows 7?

Maybe.

Ruby definitely seems designed to run on a Unix of some sort, so if you want
to make the Ruby part easy on yourself, some sort of Linux would help. So
would BSD, OS X, even Solaris.

But learning an entirely new OS at the same time as you learn to program
sounds like a daunting task.

···

On Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:44:56 pm Hilary Bailey wrote:

Josh_Cheek · 23 January 2011 14:39

I think you should not do this. It is tempting to think "if only I did this,
or had that, everything would be so much easier". This is why I own so many
books

Linux is a whole topic of its own. I suppose there might be some rewards to
using it, but certainly not enough to warrant switching, for someone in your
situation. IMO, Linux suffers serious usability issues, which is why I use a
Mac. I expect switching would just be a hindrance.

Windows will be fine, if your gems are just not working (make sure you have
the devkit), or you have to really beat your head against the wall to get
things to install and play nicely, then maybe you will have a reason to
switch, but I never had any issues like that when I used Windows, and there
are a number of people really putting a lot of work in to make the Windows
environment nice to use Ruby with.

So far, it sounds like your issue is that you are not getting the
information out of the books that they were hoping you would get out of
them. That is not an environment problem, so I think you should stick with
Windows.

I think the problem is the way you are trying to get information out of the
books you have / the way the books are guiding you to get information out.
The Revolutionist's Handbook has a maxim that I have found to be true in my
own life: "Activity is the only road to knowledge". When you go to learn
from these books, do you sit down and read them, try to piece the
information into some sort of cohesive bit of information, and then move on
to the next thing? Or do you read them, sit down and try to use them in a
program, see if they work the way they are described, see how you can take
them and combine them in a new way to do something interesting to you? I
suspect you have written extremely few programs by your confusion about the
compiler. That is not a problem in itself, but it will prevent you from
learning. I believe to "get it", you must ground the theory in some sort of
application that you comprehend on a more fundamental level. And playing
with the material out of your own creativity, writing your own code,
fabricating your own solution out of the building blocks the books give you,
I think, is the best way to translate the theory of Ruby programming into
something you internally understand.

I hope you don't find that to be offensive, I am just trying to express the
realization I've had to face in my own life, that there are good and bad
ways of learning. When you are using the good ways, you will amaze yourself
by how much you can pick up so quickly, and when you are using the bad ways,
you will make almost no progress, and be very frustrated by how even things
you know are simple turn out to be complicated.

Descriptions, written in English, are just abstractions for the actual,
concrete behaviour of the thing. They have their place, and can be a
wonderful way to communicate, but you must first understand how the
abstraction maps to the reality. You first have to have the foundations of a
mental model to map the new knowledge to. And that, I think, comes from
doing and playing.

···

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com>wrote:

Now facing this reality, would it help if I used Linux instead of
Windows 7?

Stu1 · 23 January 2011 22:08

Google search how to "think like a computer scientist".

I don't think the ruby version of the book is done so you may be stuck
with picking the java or python version of the book. actually there
might be a c version as well.

Read the whole thing. And do all the exercises. It's pedagogical.

Take it upon yourself to the challenge of creating a bubble sort
algorithm... on paper =)

Look at common data structures and get to know them. Take the time to
know what object oriented programming paradigm shift in contrast to
procedural programming languages. Take the time to understand the flow
of data and memory work with computers and operating system.

Note that low level as well as high level programming is slow process
of learning and practice before your hit the level of "The Art of
Programming".

As for using ruby in it's native environment I also suggest that you
run FreeBSD UNIX or some variant of GNU/Linux but mind you that will
add to your learning curve as well. It is estimated a two year
learning curve for running and maintaining either one of those
operating systems. I imagine that statistic is now lowered on the
maintainability end now that we have over simplified tools in places.

Good luck to you and your project.

···

~

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mike,
The first time I completed the book, then got stuck trying to understand
what, where and how to use some of the recommended programs, such as
YMAL, SQL etc. For example, beside practicing and following all he
written guide, there was no reference as to how to start assembling a
database.

In terms of why Ruby? I put sent out an email SOS to the Open Source
community, and it was unanimous that Ruby is the way to go. What do you
suggest.

In terms of usability. I eventually hope to market it with the intention
of providing for non-for-profit causes, such as a)micro-financing Third
World nations b) provide measurable answers to the improvement of US\any
secondary educational facilities. My experience has shown where private
consultants have been raping scarce financial resources from budgets,
and their decision have kept adding to, in my case(USA),low performance,
thus educational frustration.

So if you next question is why not pay someone to develop such a
program, the answer is: I don't have the money, and secondly, in the
past some of my trusted colleagues with vast programming knowledge have
been a disappointment.

Therefore i figured that my best route would be to ask the Open Source
community for help.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

tim_o · 23 January 2011 22:12

hi all
one point is being made here that open source means no owners
no-one really helps this person they all just chat and remark

there are no active groups or even updates
and no videos to learn from
the ruby wiki-books that is five years out of date
Ruby is struggling to keep afloat on its past fling
it was popular before jquery. extjs and perl on parrot vm
Ruby releases do not release an update for the old version
since you have to delete your old version
it means an ruby is always an 80 mb download
and then gems means redundancy
not many people use the new version
there are several ruby versions all limping along still in use from years ago
as they don't auto-update like addons in firefox
it seems inept to re-install a whole new ruby
just to get about 5 mb changes in a few ruby patches
interest appears to dwindle as there is no ready basic support
can anyone help this teacher with data bases there or just talk for days?
why are many of the programs in ruby forge five years old and forgotten?
is ragel a good thing? Ruby is cool but is a great mess frankly.
is there support for data stores such as puppet?

···

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 05:05:50 +0900
From: my77elephants@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Totally lost in learning Ruby
To: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org

Hi Mike,
The first time I completed the book, then got stuck trying to understand
what, where and how to use some of the recommended programs, such as
YMAL, SQL etc. For example, beside practicing and following all he
written guide, there was no reference as to how to start assembling a
database.

In terms of why Ruby? I put sent out an email SOS to the Open Source
community, and it was unanimous that Ruby is the way to go. What do you
suggest.

In terms of usability. I eventually hope to market it with the intention
of providing for non-for-profit causes, such as a)micro-financing Third
World nations b) provide measurable answers to the improvement of US\any
secondary educational facilities. My experience has shown where private
consultants have been raping scarce financial resources from budgets,
and their decision have kept adding to, in my case(USA),low performance,
thus educational frustration.

So if you next question is why not pay someone to develop such a
program, the answer is: I don't have the money, and secondly, in the
past some of my trusted colleagues with vast programming knowledge have
been a disappointment.

Therefore i figured that my best route would be to ask the Open Source
community for help.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

Robert_K1 · 2 February 2011 16:50

Is a Code editor the same as a text editor?

Yes and no. Both can be used to edit source code but an editor or IDE
with support for a particular language (and framework like Rails) can
make the work significantly easier and faster => more productive.

Can they both be used for
Ruby as well as RubyNRails?. If this is so are: a) Notepad++,
b)Netbeans, and c)Ruby mine-code similar products that can be used for
Ruby as well as Ruby N Rails?

In principle probably all of them can be used since they are all text
editors. Which of these is more productive for Ruby and Rails work I
cannot tell. Since you are starting and probably writing small
programs initially any of them should do. Actually an IDE with all
the whistles and bells can make it overly hard initially since it is
more difficult to learn.

Kind regards

robert

···

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:

--
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

DaShiell_Jude_T_CIV · 2 February 2011 17:39

Code editors and text editors differ. Code editors depending on code to be edited have additional capabilities like block indenting and outlining capability among others. Netbeans isn't an editor it's an ide integrated development environment and that's a different kettle of fish altogether. It is possible to use notepad to write code though and a person new to a programming language will learn syntax faster and better that way. When a person gets to the point where they're asked to do production assignments rather than development assignments, then it's time to research and select either a code editor; an integrated development environment or both and learn those before going on into the production assignments.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Hilary Bailey [mailto:my77elephants@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:28
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: Totally lost in learning Ruby

Is a Code editor the same as a text editor? Can they both be used for
Ruby as well as RubyNRails?. If this is so are: a) Notepad++,
b)Netbeans, and c)Ruby mine-code similar products that can be used for
Ruby as well as Ruby N Rails?

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Sam_Duncan · 2 February 2011 18:48

Hi Hilary,
I haven't been following the thread, but I wonder why you would buy an IDE? There are lots of really good free ones, and arguably using a language/ toolkit agnostic one is better for your health. Also, any reason you are going with Ruby 1.8.x vs Ruby 1.9.x - I don't know a lot about rails, but if you are coming to the language cold, you probably don't want to learn old idioms, only to have to unlearn them again later?

Sam

···

On 03/02/11 07:30, Hilary Bailey wrote:

Based on the responses received I am leaned toward the following study
guide:

A) since I intend to use the internet as the major source of
communication, learning ruby through Rails may be my starting point. I
installed Ruby 1.8.7, Rails 3.0.3, with Sqlite3 (1.3.3 x86 -mingw32)

A1) Download Devkit for use as a Ruby source of reference

A2) use the Ruby Gem web asa source of Ruby support

B) before delving into Ruby or Rails, I will learn critical basics from
w3.schools.com, from which I will cover: HTML, CSS and JavaScript

C) purchase Ruby mine-code editor from The Ruby on Rails IDE by JetBrains,
using their 30 day free trial prom, to use while finally learning Ruby
through Rails

C1) get started to learn Ruby/Rails. By first taking a 15 minute
tour/intro from http://tryruby.org

C2) continue quest by
submerging into Rails through www.digitalmediaminute.com tutorials.

C3) start placing my then practiced scripts + other saved practiced
tools, into a database of choice so to start dev a project

D) hopefully at this point I will be able to clarify in my mind which
database source to use, what supporting instruments needed to be
attached, etc.. to make a meaningful log-in program that will reflect
real time, with the ability to gather, configure and interpret data.

If my analysis seems naïve, please understand, and I think you do, my
enthusiasm for using the open Source community as a savior to my woes.

What do you think? I know that I have over simplified the whole nature
of programming, however at this stage I think I will be forgiven for
bypassing some unmentioned stage/application/procedure.

Sherm_Pendley · 2 February 2011 19:40

Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> writes:

B) before delving into Ruby or Rails, I will learn critical basics from
w3.schools.com, from which I will cover: HTML, CSS and JavaScript

Ugh. W3Schools is a *very* poor reputation among pros who actually know
how to code. It's riddled with errors & misinformation - one glaring
example of which is the name itself, since they have no relationship to
the W3C whatsoever.

Check out <http://htmldog.com>. The material there is far better.

sherm--

···

--
Sherm Pendley
<http://camelbones.sourceforge.net>
Cocoa Developer

Mike_Stephens · 2 February 2011 22:23

Hilary Bailey wrote in post #979218:

> A) since I intend to use the internet as the major source of
communication, learning ruby through Rails may be my starting point.

Rails is a powerful package but I would think twice about getting
involved in it right now.

Ruby can be accessible but equally it can be very inscrutable to all but
very knowledgable and capable programmers eg most of the people on this
channel.

The problem with Rails is it is a whole new langusge to learn. It is
more like a DSL. If you are struggling with just Ruby, why climb another
mountain at the same time?

Start dabbling with Scite. Open IRB in another window, and a command
prompt for ri in a third window. Explore Ruby's basic behaviours. Follow
a simple Ruby book. Ask a few questions and get comfortable with simple
things.

Yukihiro Matsumoto is said to have designed Ruby based on the Principle
of Least Surprise. When you read that, just remember he wrote the
language so it's not exactly surprising that he doesn't get surprised
about what he created.

I programmed in a number of older languages. You could pick them up in a
few weeks and have real applictions running in no time. Then with great
excitement I crossed over to Ruby-like languages with Visual C++. It was
a different world - an order of magnitude more baffling.

It's fascinating to write a few lines of Ruby and load data into and out
of a database, script a web site or make the numbers on Excel move
magically of their own accord.

Building a credible web application is a whole different ball game.

···

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

Stu1 · 2 February 2011 23:02

vi follows more command line logic like: {command} {file}

so to create hello world in ruby you would open up a prompt (i'm
assuming this works in dos) and run:

% vim hello.rb

if no dos prompt is available to edit a file you simple press colon
and 'e' then tab will show your file list. if you need a new file
colon and 'n' and type name of the file (:n hello.rb)

As I mentioned there is a tutorial bundled with the editor. The
learning curve comes from what you may have become accustomed( or
conditioned) to with gui based editors. What harm is it to run through
the tutorial?

It was mentioned about gvim which may have "drop down menus" though
this is really a scaffold when you are new and should be considered
something to avoid unless you have to use it.

The reason to learn an editor such as vi is that you will discover
that you will be come more productive with it over time. It does not
expire or lose support for xyz language as well as I mentioned it on
just about every unix installation currently available. At one of your
peers machines or need to remote into some host? vi is there. no need
to carry your own editor with you.

Also note vi is not hard to learn. It's just different than what your
accustomed to. In most cases it should take a couple minutes to learn
something, some hours of practice and reconditioning the muscle
memory, to gain a skill you can use for the rest of your life.

···

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is my confusion....take the simplistic case of using an Excel
spreadsheet. I will be abel to type, perform math task etc...if I wish
to save a document can be accessed from the File-Open menu, then what
was saved can nbe executed by playing with some commands. With
Ruby/Rails, would the IDE be the source where I would enter scripts?. If
this is so, how would I retrieve/execute/display the saved macro/script.
Is Vim the tool that will do all of this using Ruby/Rails?

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

flebber · 3 February 2011 10:55

I admire your vim and vigor, I really do if you wish to learn Ruby
read from the horses mouth. I tried a few books and found Matz's the
most logical The Ruby Programming Language [Book] . It seems you
are not only trying to learn Ruby but the whole world of IT in one
gulp, your question what is CSS highlights that, but I do not say this
to criticize because if you put your mind to it you can do it.

Look at this walkthrough Basics of designing a database
on designing databases, there is an example within using schools as an
example. If you want opensource have you considered using base and
mysql. You could likely achieve your requirement in less time and take
your knowledged gained onto developing your application further as you
learn.

What is base http://www.libreoffice.org/features/base/ or
http://www.openoffice.org/product/base.html . I gave you links to both
as currently they are very similar and I didn't want to enter this
debate as I have no personal ideological preference as he technology
currently remains the same.

···

On Jan 24, 7:05 am, Hilary Bailey <my77elepha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mike,
The first time I completed the book, then got stuck trying to understand
what, where and how to use some of the recommended programs, such as
YMAL, SQL etc. For example, beside practicing and following all he
written guide, there was no reference as to how to start assembling a
database.

In terms of why Ruby? I put sent out an email SOS to the Open Source
community, and it was unanimous that Ruby is the way to go. What do you
suggest.

In terms of usability. I eventually hope to market it with the intention
of providing for non-for-profit causes, such as a)micro-financing Third
World nations b) provide measurable answers to the improvement of US\any
secondary educational facilities. My experience has shown where private
consultants have been raping scarce financial resources from budgets,
and their decision have kept adding to, in my case(USA),low performance,
thus educational frustration.

So if you next question is why not pay someone to develop such a
program, the answer is: I don't have the money, and secondly, in the
past some of my trusted colleagues with vast programming knowledge have
been a disappointment.

Therefore i figured that my best route would be to ask the Open Source
community for help.

--
Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.

DaShiell_Jude_T_CIV · 3 February 2011 12:24

Once you write a script and want to test it, you run the irb program and type irb scriptname<enter> and if you've put the script in the directory where irb expects it it's possible you run your script. The irb command is only one way to do this but useful for beginners.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Hilary Bailey [mailto:my77elephants@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 17:14
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: Totally lost in learning Ruby

Here is my confusion....take the simplistic case of using an Excel
spreadsheet. I will be abel to type, perform math task etc...if I wish
to save a document can be accessed from the File-Open menu, then what
was saved can nbe executed by playing with some commands. With
Ruby/Rails, would the IDE be the source where I would enter scripts?. If
this is so, how would I retrieve/execute/display the saved macro/script.
Is Vim the tool that will do all of this using Ruby/Rails?

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Robert_K1 · 8 February 2011 07:54

What I want to create is a database that can measure the performance of
all entities in a school district. The closest software that exhibits
some semblance is that of Microsoft Access. Where, as I understand it,
the input entry of a single data can be housed and then derived, through
a set of queries, then further analyzed through/by Microsoft Solver
software.

Microsoft Access gives you a database with application code in a
single file. You can even have a GUI to enter data. This is very
convenient for small applications. However, it's best when used by a
single person at a time - it's concurrency facilities are somewhat
limited - at least that's what it was last time I checked. It would
seem that you could cook something similar with Open Office (or Libre
Office) Base which has the advantage not to be tied into Microsoft
OS's. If you need something that can be used by multiple users
concurrently chances are that Access is not the best choice.

The difference with my proposal would be that based on selected
indicators [which will be dynamically influenced by changed event(s) and
policy(ies], which would be able to measure success. I have been exposed
to a statistical software named SPSS and having worked as an economist,
has influenced my outlook on creating an approach/database/software
which would indicate in real time, measured results.

What exactly does "real time" mean in your context? I figure, human
beings need to give this system some input data before it can spit out
any new information.

As you can tell, there is an element of nervousness regarding saying
too much. But on the other hand, if not much is said, not much help can
be given. So it's a "catch 24", where since the last 20 years I have
been improving on a systems that would be able to measure defined
academic output, vis-a-vis, financial constraints etc..

What does "system" exactly mean here? Is it a mathematical model that
you want to implement in software? Is it a software system that you
need to improve / extend?

Mike Stephens recommended Mendix as a possible solution to my woes. Do
you know of such arena?

Therefore, I figured that, doing it all by myself may be the best
solution. However, some of my concerns are: "Why reinvent the wheel?',

Good question. It's usually a bad idea.

How can I create a sustainable system that does not compromise quality?,
What curriculum structure should I follow that will meet my needs
without, straying from my goals?

Therefore, this is my dilemma, which seems to be going in circles. Any
suggestions.

Clarify your requirements *first*. Write down a list of things that
your system needs to do, e.g. things like "someone in every school in
the district needs to be able to enter course grades" or "I want to be
notified immediately if some metric X changes". Then we can start
about thinking how such a solution might look like and finally we can
help you develop a curriculum for your training so you can build what
you want. I do assume though that it will take you in the order of
months to arrive there if you do not have an IT background.

Kind regards

robert

···

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:

--
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Michael_J_Welch_Ph.D · 11 February 2011 18:15

No offense meant, but creating a programming project like you are
describing is very complex. You need Ruby, MySQL, HTML, CSS, Rails, and
probably a few other technologies just to start a project like that. I
suggest you hire professional help, or plan to spend a year learning the
basics of programming and web building. I would suggest reviewing
existing projects and products for school administration.

Also, programming is like math. You can't learn it by reading a book and
skimming over the detail. You have to get in and do the problems. In
programming, you read the book(s) just to find out where the information
is, then you start working on your own program. As you need stuff, you
go back to the book(s) for explanations and examples. As you solve each
little thing that comes up, your skills improve. You can't learn
programming without doing it, and it doesn't take just a few days, it
takes months or years. I know; I used to teach programming at the
college level. Some people just "get it," and some never "get it."

--Dr. Mike

···

On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 13:51 +0900, EiNZTEiN wrote:

On 2011-01-21 04:13:47 -0600, Hilary Bailey said:

I am a school teacher
> trying to create an education database software for administrators and
> teachers which will hold educational institutions accountable for the
> performance of their school district. My only programming experience is
> the confusion I had trying to read and comprehend the above sources that
> do not offer a stable compiler or the appropriate programs that will go
> hand in hand with their book or resource for Ruby.

Guecker928 · 12 February 2011 05:23

Having been in and around software design for far longer than I care to admit, here is some of what I have "learned" over the years about software design projects. Almost all of the successful marketable software design projects I have been involved in and observed over the years seem to have a few traits in common that tend to lead to their success.

I also apologize in advance to the board that the main points in this post aren't really ruby related at all and should probably be moved to a different board more centered around the business aspects of software design.

First off, at the very beginning of the project there are at least three key roles that should be filled before the software design should seriously begin. However don't let me or anyone else discourage you from trying. Be sure and read the last paragraph about what I think you should be focusing on in these early stages. In any case, it will be a great learning experience for you! The three key roles before the software design project really begins are the marketing role, the legal role, and the finance role.

The marketing role needs to decide if there will be demand for the software that you are going to produce, when will you produce it and identifying which customers appear willing to pay good money for it. Who are the competitors? Is your product a clone+ of something else? How will you productize it, package it, promote it, etc. If there is a real demand for your product there should be a company that will help sponsor its development or at least help you alpha and beta test.

The legal role involves walking the mine field of software design legalities regarding reuse of other's ideas/codes/tools, etc. so that you don't get close to market only to find out that others, perhaps even one of your competitors, has deeper legal pockets than you and may even try to tie you up on legalities that may have escaped your attention while you burn off your cash in court.

The last role is the finance role. In order to quickly move an idea and a viable product to market generally will require some capital. All of your own time spent on this project is time that isn't available for other endeavors. And as others on this board have already suggested, it will be incredibly challenging for one person to fill all of the key roles involved in a project of this nature.

In the good old days 10-15 years ago, here in the States anyway, before the dotcom bubble burst practically anyone with a good idea could put together a team and venture capitalists/angel investors would fall all over themselves to fund it. Such is not the case anymore!

The last paragraph: Whenever I find myself going in circles, I generally take a long hard look at my project's scope. I would suggest that you should simplify your current plan's scope to not include any of the business aspects yet regarding a new proposed software solution or any proposed enhancements to their current system but should totally focus first on developing a software prototype using currently available tools to accurately model those aspects of the current environment of an educational system that are of interest to you. Only after you have successfully modeled the current environment as you now know it should you begin to look at ways to enhance it. In many software systems that have been in the field for a while, things tend to work the way they do(trade-offs) because of an evolution to meet some customer marketing need.

With this down-sized scope, this will still be a great technical learning endeavor for you to experience developing a real-life software prototype. This will also be very useful for you to evaluate the software model's complexity, to test your own understanding of the environment, to evaluate the software tools available today and their capabilities, etc. etc..

Generally, in my opinion anyway, successfully writing fundable, fully maintainable secure marketable legal software generally will typically require the expertise of some marketing, legal, finance, and software design professionals that have already been there and done that.

···

--- On Mon, 2/7/11, Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Hilary Bailey <my77elephants@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Totally lost in learning Ruby
To: "ruby-talk ML" <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Date: Monday, February 7, 2011, 6:16 PM

Hi everybody,
Based on the responses I have been receiving, I will greatly appreciate
any comment on how to move forward from this point. Thanks in advance to
all respondents whom have been soooooo kind and patient.

What I want to create is a database that can measure the performance of
all entities in a school district. The closest software that exhibits
some semblance is that of Microsoft Access. Where, as I understand it,
the input entry of a single data can be housed and then derived, through
a set of queries, then further analyzed through/by Microsoft Solver
software.

The difference with my proposal would be that based on selected
indicators [which will be dynamically influenced by changed event(s) and
policy(ies], which would be able to measure success. I have been exposed
to a statistical software named SPSS and having worked as an economist,
has influenced my outlook on creating an approach/database/software
which would indicate in real time, measured results.

As you can tell, there is an element of nervousness regarding saying
too much. But on the other hand, if not much is said, not much help can
be given. So it's a "catch 24", where since the last 20 years I have
been improving on a systems that would be able to measure defined
academic output, vis-a-vis, financial constraints etc..

Mike Stephens recommended Mendix as a possible solution to my woes. Do
you know of such arena?

Therefore, I figured that, doing it all by myself may be the best
solution. However, some of my concerns are: "Why reinvent the wheel?',
How can I create a sustainable system that does not compromise quality?,
What curriculum structure should I follow that will meet my needs
without, straying from my goals?

Therefore, this is my dilemma, which seems to be going in circles. Any
suggestions.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Guecker928 · 12 February 2011 06:26

Having been in and around software design for far longer than I care to
admit, here is some of what I have "learned" over the years about
software design projects. Almost all
of the successful marketable software design projects I have been
involved in and observed over the years seem to have a few traits in
common that tend to lead to their success.

I also apologize in
advance to the board that the main points in this post aren't really
ruby related at all and should probably be moved to a different board
more centered around the business aspects of software design.

First
off, at the very beginning of the project there are at least three key
roles that should be filled before the software design should seriously
begin. However don't let me or anyone
else
discourage you from trying. Be sure and read the last paragraph about
what I think you should be focusing on in these early stages. In
any case, it will be a great learning experience for you! The three
key roles before the software design project really begins are the
marketing role, the legal role, and the finance role.

The
marketing role needs to decide if there will be demand for the software
that you are going to produce, when will you produce it and identifying
which customers appear willing to pay good money for it. Who are the
competitors? Is your product a clone+ of something else? How will you
productize it, package it, promote it, etc. If there is a real demand
for your product there should be a company that will help sponsor its
development or at least help you alpha and beta test.

The legal
role involves walking the mine field of software design legalities
regarding reuse of other's ideas/codes/tools, etc. so that you don't
get close to market only to find out that others, perhaps even one of
your competitors, has deeper legal pockets than you and may even try to
tie you up on legalities that may have escaped your attention while you
burn off your cash in court.

The last role is the finance role.
In order to quickly move an idea and a viable product to market
generally will require some capital. All of your own time spent on this
project is time that isn't available for other endeavors. And as
others on this board have already suggested, it will be incredibly
challenging for one person to fill all of the key roles involved in a
project of this nature.

In the good old days 10-15 years ago,
here in the States anyway, before the dotcom bubble burst practically
anyone with a good idea could put together a team and venture
capitalists/angel investors would fall all
over themselves to fund it. Such is not the case anymore!

The
last paragraph: Whenever I find myself going in circles, I generally
take a long hard look at my project's scope. I would suggest that you
should simplify your current plan's scope to not include any of the
business aspects yet regarding a new proposed software solution or any
proposed enhancements to their current system but should totally focus first on developing a software prototype
using currently available tools to accurately model those aspects of
the current environment of an educational system that are of interest to
you. Only after you have successfully modeled the current
environment as you now know it should you begin to look at ways to
enhance it. In many software systems that have been in the field for a
while, things tend to work the way they do(trade-offs) because of an
evolution to
meet some customer marketing need.

With this down-sized scope,
this will still be a great technical learning endeavor for you to
experience developing a real-life software prototype. This will also
be very useful for you to evaluate the software model's complexity, to
test your own understanding of the environment, to evaluate the software
tools available today and their capabilities, etc. etc..

Generally,
in my opinion anyway, successfully writing fundable, fully
maintainable secure marketable legal software generally will typically
require the expertise of some marketing, legal, finance, and software
design professionals that have already been there and done that.