RubyGarden wiki patch

ruby-talk
21

David Ross wrote:

trans. (T. Onoma) wrote:

> David Ross <dross@code-exec.net> writes:
> > Brian Schröder wrote:
> > >> Then you wouldn't mind giving out the server logs for us to confirm
> > >> you are telling the truth.
> > >
> > >PLONK
> >
> > /me blinks
> >
> > what does "PLONK" mean?
>
> Well, metaphorically, it means dumping your hostile allegations against
> the provider of a free service where it rightfully belongs: the trash.
> Technically, it means you're killfiled.

Killfile?

Well, we all know D. Ross is about as rude as they come. I've sort of just come to accept it as a personality "disability", if you will. Between all his bravado their is some valuable info though.

But I'm wondering why Chad hasn't as least made a statement on the matter. I can understand that he might not want get into it with Ross. I wouldn't either. But the rest of us might like to know about his work on the RBL matter. I for one do not really want authentication --if at all avoidable.

Hopefully the cap-letters trick will help for while.

T.
"Pride is terrible thing; learn to waste it."

I've actually bee thinking of writing some code for usemod to check RBL, and DSBL.. though it might be best to just write a checker daemon in Ruby and set up a unix pipe. Since there are the other percent which are running proxies on the computers(common and elite port) which I have to dread. Whcih means... scanning selected ports and then trying to see if they are open proxies(whether it be HTTP, SOCKS, etc) This is s big problem to those who dislike being scanned. To many (even me) its like knocking on someones door to see if anyone is home. This is the best way to identify spammers though. Authentication, HTTP limiting is obfuscation, its a horrible way to block. When I think obfuscation I think compiling. Just because you compile a C application with a exploit you know in the program doesnt mean anyone will find it, people look at it anyway. So therefore obfuscation can easily be overridden, even if there are captachas. Hiding the problem doesn't help., but fixing the problem will help.

David Ross

wrong. The ruby scanner won't work, it will have to be done in C/C++ since Ruby has lack of support for Socket. It only has CONNECT, not SYN, FIN. Something would need to be written at a lower level.

David Ross

···

On Saturday 30 October 2004 09:40 am, Mikael Brockman wrote:
> > >On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:13:51 +0900 >> > > > >> > > >David Ross <dross@code-exec.net> wrote:

--
Hazzle free packages for Ruby?
RPA is available from http://www.rubyarchive.org/

22

Austin Ziegler wrote:

<>Oh, Thanks Mikael, I'm not great with sound recognition. I asked
others on irc and they had no idea what it meant. I've to disagree about
them being in the trash though. Chad lied, thats worse than arguing. He
lied about having a RBL, and he lied about the 0%.
   
There is no evidence that Chad lied. You're pretending that RBLs are ideal
solutions. As I've told you before, they're not. There are various RBLs to
query -- and you don't know what list(s) that Chad is/was querying (nor does it
*matter*). New ones appear regularly, old ones disappear regularly. Various
RBLs have varying political policies (such as the list you mentioned that
blocks all dynamic IPs) that make them inappropriate. RBLs must be managed as
often as not. When Ruwiki supports RBL querying, the RBL will be disabled
unless you have three RBLs that you query and then it requires a majority vote
between the RBLs.

Yes, there is which I pasted below. He said he used blask listing. Even some of the IPs listed in RubyGarden were on some of the best RBL servers out there on the net.
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/118249
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/117680

RBLs are part of a good solution. What you are getting confused with one of dsbl's servers called the dup list. The list I *never* will recommend nor use. RBLs don't block dynamic IP ranges like you are thinking. I tried to explain this on IRC, but failed because I can't explain well unless I take much time doing so.. So, no. The RBL/DSBLs are appropriate to use for the wiki application.

> New ones appear regularly, old ones disappear regularly.
Which is why there are special checks performed to eliminate any.. inconsistancies in the RBL/or DSBL's databases.

>political policies

Sure.. for instance.. one of the BL servers has a list dedicated to people who attack them by sendnig spam, which I never use asa well. The Blacklist services out there are not going to be against people, because no one would use them. Also, in dsbl if you do and you are a trusted user you get your account pulled.

Frankly, I'm far more willing to believe Chad on this than I'd ever believe
you, because you're not necessarily querying the RBLs that Chad is querying --
and you're not necessarily querying it at the same time that RubyGarden's wiki
was doing so.

The IP that James Britt submitted to R-T, one of the first posts talked about spam, listed an IP that was listed in the Single Hop, which is tested by trusted users. Very good source of blocking, and I might recieve 1 spam a week. It includes open proxies etc.

I don't care if I look like a bad guy on this one, becasue I just plainly
don't care, but I am 100% right.
   
No, you're not. Even if you had a 5% chance of being right, your attitude has
made you 1000% wrong. You want to do something with it? Start your own Ruby
wiki website and run it according to the policies that you prefer. And listen
to the crickets.

Attitude doesn't make the results right or wrong. The information proves the credibility of the result.

I spent an hour checking spammer IPs on RubyGarden, it would certainly get
over 80%, and the people who spammed from hosts not listed were mostly
proxies (common and elite ports) or gone by the time I checked them from
being Dynamic IP adrresses. Sorry you feel that way about the truth, not many
people can have deep knowledge in security or have the experience.
   
And you obviously have neither the knowledge nor the experience. RBLs aren't
even acknowledged as a 100% solution by the people who run them. What makes you
think that you know better?

Right.. thats why I must have been confused when I was first in computers until I learned about ethics and law. Yes, it will part of a solution, the other part is having something scan the host for known ports. What makes me better.. well you see I've the experience from being confused, I'm just glad I was taught ethics before I turned evil.

-austin

David Ross

···

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:57:15 +0900, David Ross <dross@code-exec.net> wrote:

--
Hazzle free packages for Ruby?
RPA is available from http://www.rubyarchive.org/

23

Trolling? excuse me. Everytime anyone argues its called trolling. Grow up.

He made a bad decision.
   
Come on - stop being so damn hostile and let it rest. You're not really
helping out promoting the "helpful and friendly" ruby community.

//Anders

I agree. Often people jump in and back someone up without studying the facts. I'll try to not respond these type of people from now on.

David Ross

···

--
Hazzle free packages for Ruby?
RPA is available from http://www.rubyarchive.org/

24

Jamis Buck wrote:

I, for one, am surprised that people continue to reply to David's "messages". I killfiled him a long time ago, and he remains the one and only person I've ever killfiled, on any of the numerous mailing lists I'm on. It really is too bad he hangs out on ruby-talk, because it is otherwise one of the nicest communities I have the honor of participating in.

I killfiled David because he hides behind the excuse "yes, I'm rude, and I can't help it." You can ALWAYS help it. If he gives that excuse, it is because he doesn't WANT to change. He delights in being rude and obnoxious. Let's just acknoledge that, and cease to rise to David's trolls. If you, like me, don't like reading his bile, do like I did, and try the killfile.

Wholeheartedly concur. I plonked dross a long time ago and haven't missed him. Now I only have to read his drivel when people reply to him.

Steve

25

Jamis Buck wrote:

I, for one, am surprised that people continue to reply to David's "messages". I killfiled him a long time ago, and he remains the one and only person I've ever killfiled, on any of the numerous mailing lists I'm on. It really is too bad he hangs out on ruby-talk, because it is otherwise one of the nicest communities I have the honor of participating in.

I killfiled David because he hides behind the excuse "yes, I'm rude, and I can't help it." You can ALWAYS help it. If he gives that excuse, it is because he doesn't WANT to change. He delights in being rude and obnoxious. Let's just acknoledge that, and cease to rise to David's trolls. If you, like me, don't like reading his bile, do like I did, and try the killfile.

Thank you.

I, too, killfiled Mr. Ross (twice now , actually).

I resisted commenting on this thread because of the catch-22 of trolling: Publicly asking people not to publicly respond.

But there you go.

I'm amazed at how much traffic is generated by people repeatedly pointing out the obvious. Mr. Ross will not change. Please stop expecting otherwise. Please simply either ignore him, or correspond in private.

Maybe this belongs in the FAQ:

q. Are some people rude, thoughtless, and/or spiteful?
a. Yes.
q. Will they ever change?
a. Don't hold your breath.
q. Even if I repeatedly point out the error of their ways?
a. You're turning blue.

James

26

This is certainly true. Even folks with Tourette's syndrome can help it.

-austin

···

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:56:05 +0900, Jamis Buck <jgb3@email.byu.edu> wrote:

I killfiled David because he hides behind the excuse "yes, I'm rude, and
I can't help it." You can ALWAYS help it. If he gives that excuse, it is
because he doesn't WANT to change. He delights in being rude and
obnoxious. Let's just acknoledge that, and cease to rise to David's
trolls. If you, like me, don't like reading his bile, do like I did, and
try the killfile.

--
Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
               * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca
: as of this email, I have [ 5 ] Gmail invitations

27

Yes, it will part of a solution,

Associate it with another test (captcha, or what you want)

* positive response from a majority of RBL, the user need to pass a test
   (captcha, ..)

* otherwise he is accepted

the other part is having something scan the host for known
ports.

This is not the purpose of xbl.spamhaus.org (exploits block list) to
detect such hosts ?

Guy Decoux

28

David Ross wrote:

I agree. Often people jump in and back someone up without studying the facts. I'll try to not respond these type of people from now on.

No, David, YOU are the problem here, you and no one else.

I have never killfiled anyone on ruby-talk. You are a centimeter
from being the first.

Hal

29

Maybe we just need to think creatively here. With a bit of
rule-tweaking something like Spam Assassin could be modified for use as
a bile filter (look for phrases like "I am 100% correct" and "Are you a
_____?").

     Posts that have too much bile could be run through the Swedish Chef
filter before being sent to the list.

     It wouldn't solve the problem, but it might change it into
something that wasn't so much like deja vue all over again.

    -- Markus

30

Austin Ziegler wrote:

···

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:56:05 +0900, Jamis Buck <jgb3@email.byu.edu> wrote:

I killfiled David because he hides behind the excuse "yes, I'm rude, and
I can't help it." You can ALWAYS help it. If he gives that excuse, it is
because he doesn't WANT to change. He delights in being rude and
obnoxious. Let's just acknoledge that, and cease to rise to David's
trolls. If you, like me, don't like reading his bile, do like I did, and
try the killfile.
   
This is certainly true. Even folks with Tourette's syndrome can help it.

-austin

No, they can't. I had Tourettes, I'll fax you my medical record if you really want it. And just to be clear Tourettes isn't just swearing, it has to do with ticks, involuntary movements.

David Ross
--
Hazzle free packages for Ruby?
RPA is available from http://www.rubyarchive.org/

31

ts wrote:

"D" == David Ross <dross@code-exec.net> writes:
           
Yes, it will part of a solution,

Associate it with another test (captcha, or what you want)

* positive response from a majority of RBL, the user need to pass a test
  (captcha, ..)

* otherwise he is accepted

the other part is having something scan the host for known ports.

This is not the purpose of xbl.spamhaus.org (exploits block list) to
detect such hosts ?

Guy Decoux

oops, I mean real-time scanning like Freenode networks. Sure, the lists have some open relays, etc. Computers are infected all the time, so its up to a scanning to see who is infected. There are HTTP1.1 proxies which use CONNECT, SOCKS4/5 servers, other types of servers which are constructed for use in attacks. Hell, some people attack using over 50 hops(computers one after another connecting to the next just to attack). For Freenode to block some "kiddies" I had to help freenode with the current ports they were scanning and sent over a list of (elite) ports because somene accessed the list and wanted to act stupid so they decided to launch bot attacks. It was interersting how many attacks there are now since I gave them a list. Of course there are still the ocasion irc-trojan attacks which are not commanded by port communication, but a virus infects a computer to get information off a designated IRC server. Join the channel, and the master of a botnet attacks. Unless someone actually wants to be that stupid to attack a wiki, which is less likely. <finish for now, time ended for tea>

David Ross

···

--
Hazzle free packages for Ruby?
RPA is available from http://www.rubyarchive.org/

32

No, David, they can. The tics and involuntary movements is the primary
point of Tourette's. One doesn't have to be an ass. There is a
difference between the events in Tourette's (even the swearing or
other random words) and simply being an ass. And to be quite clear:
the swearing and bad attitude quite commonly associated with
Tourette's shouldn't be manifesting itself on the 'net.

I strongly suggest that you wait fifteen minutes before responding to
anything, and then edit what you send -- because you're coming across
like a hormonal fifteen year old who claims to know far more than he
does.

-austin

···

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:35:27 +0900, David Ross <dross@code-exec.net> wrote:

Austin Ziegler wrote:
>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:56:05 +0900, Jamis Buck <jgb3@email.byu.edu> wrote:
>>I killfiled David because he hides behind the excuse "yes, I'm rude, and
>>I can't help it." You can ALWAYS help it. If he gives that excuse, it is
>>because he doesn't WANT to change. He delights in being rude and
>>obnoxious. Let's just acknoledge that, and cease to rise to David's
>>trolls. If you, like me, don't like reading his bile, do like I did, and
>>try the killfile.
>This is certainly true. Even folks with Tourette's syndrome can help it.
No, they can't. I had Tourettes, I'll fax you my medical record if you
really want it. And just to be clear Tourettes isn't just swearing, it
has to do with ticks, involuntary movements.

--
Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
               * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca
: as of this email, I have [ 5 ] Gmail invitations

33

Austin Ziegler wrote:

···

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:35:27 +0900, David Ross <dross@code-exec.net> wrote:

Austin Ziegler wrote:
   

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:56:05 +0900, Jamis Buck <jgb3@email.byu.edu> wrote:
     

I killfiled David because he hides behind the excuse "yes, I'm rude, and
I can't help it." You can ALWAYS help it. If he gives that excuse, it is
because he doesn't WANT to change. He delights in being rude and
obnoxious. Let's just acknoledge that, and cease to rise to David's
trolls. If you, like me, don't like reading his bile, do like I did, and
try the killfile.
       

This is certainly true. Even folks with Tourette's syndrome can help it.
     

No, they can't. I had Tourettes, I'll fax you my medical record if you
really want it. And just to be clear Tourettes isn't just swearing, it
has to do with ticks, involuntary movements.
   
No, David, they can. The tics and involuntary movements is the primary
point of Tourette's. One doesn't have to be an ass. There is a
difference between the events in Tourette's (even the swearing or
other random words) and simply being an ass. And to be quite clear:
the swearing and bad attitude quite commonly associated with
Tourette's shouldn't be manifesting itself on the 'net.

I strongly suggest that you wait fifteen minutes before responding to
anything, and then edit what you send -- because you're coming across
like a hormonal fifteen year old who claims to know far more than he
does.

-austin

No, they cannot. Even if you hold the throat or arm muscle, it *will* still tick. I should know. I had it for a really long time. Its not medically possible for you to stop your heart from beating(unless you actually know hw to meditate and stop it :P). Tourettes, is the same way.

David Ross
--
Hazzle free packages for Ruby?
RPA is available from http://www.rubyarchive.org/