# Ruby Advocacy/Documentation/Sponsorship? **URL:** \ **Category:** ruby-talk\ **Created:** [6 July 2004 02:13 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425 "2004-07-06T02:13:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Randy\_Lawrence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Randy\_Lawrence](https://rubytalk.org/u/Randy_Lawrence)\ **Post date:** [6 July 2004 02:13 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/1 "2004-07-06T02:13:59Z")
Having discovered Ruby recently and falling in love with it, I'm wondering if there are any REMAINING reasons why Ruby isn't as widespread as some of the older (less-productive) scripting languages. Is there a perception that Ruby still lacks decent documentation? Does lack of corporate backing hurt more than it helps? Should RubyForge and RAA be merged into a single archive with an interface similar to CPAN? Is there a Ruby advocacy group? I'm assuming the lack of English documentation was the major barrier before 2002. IMHO, documentation now exists but they are scattered or hard for newcomers to find (ie compared to Perl). A Ruby search engine covering multiple websites would be really nice, starting with these docs (maybe we can get a corporate sponsor to host the search engine): 1. RUBY BOOKS/GUIDES [http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/UsersGuide/rg/index.html](http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/UsersGuide/rg/index.html) [http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/](http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/) [http://poignantguide.net/ruby/](http://poignantguide.net/ruby/) 2. RUBY CLASS/API REFERENCE [http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib/](http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib/) [http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/rdoc/1.9/](http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/rdoc/1.9/) [http://www.kitebird.com/articles/ruby-dbi.html](http://www.kitebird.com/articles/ruby-dbi.html) 3. RUBY CODE SNIPPETS [http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac\_ruby/t1.html](http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_ruby/t1.html) [http://www.rubygarden.org/ruby?CodingInRuby](http://www.rubygarden.org/ruby?CodingInRuby) [http://yagni.com/rosetta-stone/index.php](http://yagni.com/rosetta-stone/index.php) 4. RUBY AND C/C++ INTEGRATION [http://www.zenspider.com/ZSS/Products/RubyInline/](http://www.zenspider.com/ZSS/Products/RubyInline/) [http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/Ruby.html](http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/Ruby.html) 5. MOD\_RUBY+ERUBY, CGIKIT, ETC. [http://modruby.net/doc/](http://modruby.net/doc/) [http://www.rubydoc.org/books/modruby/book1.htm](http://www.rubydoc.org/books/modruby/book1.htm) [http://www.spice-of-life.net/cgikit/en/userguide/CGIKitUserGuide.html](http://www.spice-of-life.net/cgikit/en/userguide/CGIKitUserGuide.html) ....damn gotta run. At a minimum, maybe Ruby nuby's will hit this post in Google and find it useful. Maybe someone else more qualified can hit on the other topics like advocacy, etc. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Britt6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@James\_Britt6](https://rubytalk.org/u/James_Britt6)\ **Post date:** [6 July 2004 06:14 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/2 "2004-07-06T06:14:01Z")
Randy Lawrence wrote: > Having discovered Ruby recently and falling in love with it, I'm wondering if there are any REMAINING reasons why Ruby isn't as widespread as some of the older (less-productive) scripting languages. > > Is there a perception that Ruby still lacks decent documentation? Yes, because it does. > Does lack of corporate backing hurt more than it helps? Depends, but having a Big Name behind Ruby would likely help. > Should RubyForge and RAA be merged into a single archive with an interface similar to CPAN? Something along those lines would be a good thing. At the least, hosting an project on RubyForge should automatically add an entry to the RAA. > Is there a Ruby advocacy group? You're soaking in it! > I'm assuming the lack of English documentation was the major barrier before 2002. IMHO, documentation now exists but they are scattered or hard for newcomers to find (ie compared to Perl). A Ruby search engine covering multiple websites would be really nice, starting with these docs (maybe we can get a corporate sponsor to host the search engine): Well, ruby-doc.org is or should be that search engine, albeit with a good deal of human intervention. When I learn of a new Ruby resource, I try to get it listed on ruby-doc.org. However, the navigation of the site leaves much to be desired, so I've been redesigning the look and feel as well as the server code. Ideally, anything document, video, mp3, code sample, isbn, wtc related to Ruby should be locatable on ruby-doc.org, and in a variety of ways. One should be able to query or drill down, for example, to find code samples on Web development that interface with C-based libraries, or videos that mention database programing, or tutorials for newbies with a functional language background. > 1. RUBY BOOKS/GUIDES > > 2. RUBY CLASS/API REFERENCE > > 3. RUBY CODE SNIPPETS > > 4. RUBY AND C/C++ INTEGRATION > > 5. MOD\_RUBY+ERUBY, CGIKIT, ETC. Thanks for the list. I'm looking for suggestions on how to organize/classify Ruby documentation (including tutorials, reference works, videos, blogs, wikis, translations, and so on). Some of your list matches what I've been working on, some are good additions. Questions:   \* What should people expect to find at [www.ruby-doc.org](http://www.ruby-doc.org)?   \* How should it behave?   \* What goes on the front page? My basic belief is that the site need not host much; it \*could\*, but that presents logistical and admin issues. However, one should be able to search \*just\* ruby-doc.org and get back references that tell you where to find the actual content you want. It would serve as an annotated map of the Ruby documentation uuniverse. Thanks, James Britt jbritt AT ruby-doc DOT org ---
**Author:** ![Armin\_Roehrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b77776/32.png) [@Armin\_Roehrl](https://rubytalk.org/u/Armin_Roehrl)\ **Post date:** [6 July 2004 09:37 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/3 "2004-07-06T09:37:52Z")
> I'm assuming the lack of English documentation was the major barrier before 2002. IMHO, documentation now exists but they are scattered or hard for newcomers to find (ie compared to Perl). A Ruby search engine covering multiple websites would be really nice, starting with these docs (maybe we can get a corporate sponsor to host the search engine): It would be very simple to setup a common search engine based on estraier (estraier.sf.net), provided several ruby-relevant websites agree to use it. 馃檪 If you setup estraier as search and email me the cgi I happily setup a ruby meta-search-engine; Or even better: we run it on all ruby-relevant websites that want to join the experiment. howto: [http://estraier.sourceforge.net/spex.html](http://estraier.sourceforge.net/spex.html) search for "Meta Search System" Ciao,     -Armin. ---
**Author:** ![David\_A\_Black3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@David\_A\_Black3](https://rubytalk.org/u/David_A_Black3)\ **Post date:** [6 July 2004 09:51 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/4 "2004-07-06T09:51:34Z")
Hi -- > **路路路** > > On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Randy Lawrence wrote: > > > Is there a Ruby advocacy group? > > Ruby Central, Inc. ([http://www.rubycentral.org](http://www.rubycentral.org)) is a non-profit > organization for Ruby support and advocacy. It's the parent > organization for the International Ruby Conference. > > David > > -- > David A. Black > dblack@wobblini.net ---
**Author:** ![Laurent\_Julliard4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Laurent\_Julliard4](https://rubytalk.org/u/Laurent_Julliard4)\ **Post date:** [6 July 2004 08:47 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/5 "2004-07-06T08:47:45Z")
well, there is even: [http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl](http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl) (And yes, I believe that a perl wiki is bad advocacy 馃槈 > **路路路** > > il Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:14:01 +0900, James Britt \ ha scritto:: > > > > Is there a Ruby advocacy group? > > > > You're soaking in it! ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Lawrence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Randy\_Lawrence](https://rubytalk.org/u/Randy_Lawrence)\ **Post date:** [6 July 2004 18:29 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/6 "2004-07-06T18:29:02Z")
James Britt wrote: > Randy Lawrence wrote: > > > Having discovered Ruby recently and falling in love with it, I'm wondering if there are any REMAINING reasons why Ruby isn't as widespread as some of the older (less-productive) scripting languages. > > > > Is there a perception that Ruby still lacks decent documentation? > > Yes, because it does. > > > Does lack of corporate backing hurt more than it helps? > > Depends, but having a Big Name behind Ruby would likely help. > > > Should RubyForge and RAA be merged into a single archive with an interface similar to CPAN? > > Something along those lines would be a good thing. At the least, hosting an project on RubyForge should automatically add an entry to the RAA. > > > Is there a Ruby advocacy group? > > You're soaking in it! > > > I'm assuming the lack of English documentation was the major barrier before 2002. IMHO, documentation now exists but they are scattered or hard for newcomers to find (ie compared to Perl). A Ruby search engine covering multiple websites would be really nice, starting with these docs (maybe we can get a corporate sponsor to host the search engine): > > Well, ruby-doc.org is or should be that search engine, albeit with a good deal of human intervention. When I learn of a new Ruby resource, I try to get it listed on ruby-doc.org. > > However, the navigation of the site leaves much to be desired, so I've been redesigning the look and feel as well as the server code. Ideally, anything document, video, mp3, code sample, isbn, wtc related to Ruby should be locatable on ruby-doc.org, and in a variety of ways. > > One should be able to query or drill down, for example, to find code samples on Web development that interface with C-based libraries, or videos that mention database programing, or tutorials for newbies with a functional language background. > > > 1. RUBY BOOKS/GUIDES > > > > 2. RUBY CLASS/API REFERENCE > > > > 3. RUBY CODE SNIPPETS > > > > 4. RUBY AND C/C++ INTEGRATION > > > > 5. MOD\_RUBY+ERUBY, CGIKIT, ETC. > > Thanks for the list. > > I'm looking for suggestions on how to organize/classify Ruby documentation (including tutorials, reference works, videos, blogs, wikis, translations, and so on). Some of your list matches what I've been working on, some are good additions. > > Questions: > \* What should people expect to find at [www.ruby-doc.org](http://www.ruby-doc.org)? > > \* How should it behave? > > \* What goes on the front page? > > My basic belief is that the site need not host much; it \*could\*, but that presents logistical and admin issues. However, one should be able to search \*just\* ruby-doc.org and get back references that tell you where to find the actual content you want. It would serve as an annotated map of the Ruby documentation uuniverse. > > Thanks, > > James Britt > jbritt AT ruby-doc DOT org James, Thanks for the detailed response and thanks even more for providing ruby-doc.org!!! The ruby-doc.org site is VERY appreciated. In terms of some suggestions... 1. The primary links (documents..., downloads...) should be made much more obvious (larger font and/or more menu-like in appearance). It might even fit on a left vertical menu if you want to try it out. 2. The text used for primary links (primary menu) should make sense to noobs (ie they don't know terms like "PickAxe"). Here's one possible selection of the primary links (in all caps). For a "top menu" scenario, probably 1-4, and 7. For a "left menu" scenario, they'll all fit (submenus might not). START   Intro to ruby-doc.org (for noobs)   Recommended reading   Recommended downloads (ruby, must-have 3rd-party libs, etc.) 1. ARTICLES   Intro to Ruby   ... 2. BOOKS   ONLINE     Programming Ruby (Pickaxe)     ...   PURCHASE     Amazon/Bookpool links ($ to help pay for ruby-doc.org)     ... 3. CLASS/API REFERENCE   core api   stdlib   ... 4. CODE EXAMPLES/SNIPPETS   pleac\_ruby   ... 5. GUI   FOX   TK   WX   ... 6. SERVER-SIDE   CGI     mod\_ruby     eruby     cgikit     ...   DATABASES     DBI     MySQL     PostgreSQL     SQLite     ...   DISTRIBUTED (DRB)   WEBRICK   ...      7. SEARCH   simple or complex search forms on this page 8. USEFUL TOOLS (stable 3rd-party libraries)   Log4r   ... 9. USING C/C++/JAVA/...   C/C++ with SWIG   JRuby   ... ---
**Author:** ![tony\_summerfelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tony\_summerfelt](https://rubytalk.org/u/tony_summerfelt)\ **Post date:** [8 July 2004 18:35 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/7 "2004-07-08T18:35:13Z")
ruby docs may not be as abundant as something like perl, but the printed docs i have (pickaxe, nutshell) have gotten me through most code. this place got me through the rest 馃檪 if you want to see an example of a language with atrocious documentation (both on and offline) take a look at rebol. the book 'rebol: the official guide' is over 700 pages and you will not find one page with an example of how to parse command line arguments to a rebol program. as far as i know the only place you can find it online by sifting through one of the 500 example scripts on the rebol web site. > **路路路** > > On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:14:01 +0900, you wrote: > > > > Is there a perception that Ruby still lacks decent documentation? > > > Yes, because it does. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Fivis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael\_Fivis](https://rubytalk.org/u/Michael_Fivis)\ **Post date:** [6 July 2004 08:54 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/8 "2004-07-06T08:54:39Z")
On that note, are there any wiki packages written in ruby? > **路路路** > > On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:47:45 +0900, gabriele renzi \ wrote: > > > il Tue, 6 Jul 2004 15:14:01 +0900, James Britt \> \ ha scritto:: > > > > \> > > \>\> Is there a Ruby advocacy group? > > \> > > \>You're soaking in it! > > > > well, there is even: [http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl](http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl) > > > > (And yes, I believe that a perl wiki is bad advocacy 馃槈 > > -- > \ ---
**Author:** ![James\_Britt6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@James\_Britt6](https://rubytalk.org/u/James_Britt6)\ **Post date:** [7 July 2004 15:22 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/9 "2004-07-07T15:22:29Z")
Randy Lawrence wrote: > James, > > Thanks for the detailed response and thanks even more for providing ruby-doc.org!!! The ruby-doc.org site is VERY appreciated. You're welcome. Ruby-doc.org is a collaborative effort, and the real value is in the documentation others have been providing. James ---
**Author:** ![Lyle\_Johnson3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@Lyle\_Johnson3](https://rubytalk.org/u/Lyle_Johnson3)\ **Post date:** [8 July 2004 19:53 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/10 "2004-07-08T19:53:00Z")
In my opinion, books like "Programming Ruby" and "Ruby in a Nutshell" do a fine job of documenting the basics of Ruby programming. But when one moves on to more advanced topics (if that's the right word), things like programming web applications, GUIs, working with databases, etc. the documentation starts to get spotty. You are correct that the Ruby community is a helpful bunch, and that you can get most of the help you need if you hang out on the mailing list or IRC. But wouldn't it be swell to be able to go to the bookstore and just buy "Developing Web Applications with Ruby" rather than scavenging the web to try to piece together all of the knowledge that you need? > **路路路** > > On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 03:35:13 +0900, tony summerfelt \ wrote: > > > ruby docs may not be as abundant as something like perl, but the > > printed docs i have (pickaxe, nutshell) have gotten me through most > > code. this place got me through the rest 馃檪 ---
**Author:** ![Laurent\_Julliard4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Laurent\_Julliard4](https://rubytalk.org/u/Laurent_Julliard4)\ **Post date:** [6 July 2004 09:02 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/11 "2004-07-06T09:02:44Z")
\*lots\* try to search on RAA 馃檪 The more succesfulls 3 seem to be ruwiki -\> [http://ruwiki.rubyforge.org/](http://ruwiki.rubyforge.org/) rwiki -\> [http://rwiki.jin.gr.jp/cgi-bin/rw-cgi.rb](http://rwiki.jin.gr.jp/cgi-bin/rw-cgi.rb) instiki -\> [http://www.instiki.org/show/HomePage](http://www.instiki.org/show/HomePage) > **路路路** > > il Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:54:39 +0900, Michael Fivis \ ha scritto:: > > > On that note, are there any wiki packages written in ruby? ---
**Author:** ![tony\_summerfelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tony\_summerfelt](https://rubytalk.org/u/tony_summerfelt)\ **Post date:** [8 July 2004 21:33 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/12 "2004-07-08T21:33:32Z")
yeah it would 馃檪 give it time. as more people take notice that supply and demand thing will kick in with the books i was a die hard perl programmer, and a tcl/tk fan, but the power of ruby has really swayed me. i can't imagine working on a large project in anything but ruby now... > **路路路** > > On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 04:53:00 +0900, you wrote: > > > But wouldn't it be swell to be able to go to the bookstore and > > just buy "Developing Web Applications with Ruby" ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Fivis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael\_Fivis](https://rubytalk.org/u/Michael_Fivis)\ **Post date:** [6 July 2004 09:35 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/13 "2004-07-06T09:35:21Z")
awesome @ rubyforge. (first day with ruby here. beginner-intermediate python convert.) > **路路路** > > On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 18:02:44 +0900, gabriele renzi \ wrote: > > > il Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:54:39 +0900, Michael Fivis \> \ ha scritto:: > > > > \>On that note, are there any wiki packages written in ruby? > > \> > > \> > > > > \*lots\* try to search on RAA 馃檪 > > > > The more succesfulls 3 seem to be > > ruwiki -\> [http://ruwiki.rubyforge.org/](http://ruwiki.rubyforge.org/) > > rwiki -\> [http://rwiki.jin.gr.jp/cgi-bin/rw-cgi.rb](http://rwiki.jin.gr.jp/cgi-bin/rw-cgi.rb) > > instiki -\> [http://www.instiki.org/show/HomePage](http://www.instiki.org/show/HomePage) > > -- > \ ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Mail\_Archive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f04885/32.png) [@Dave\_Mail\_Archive](https://rubytalk.org/u/Dave_Mail_Archive)\ **Post date:** [8 July 2004 21:50 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/14 "2004-07-08T21:50:22Z")
And if anyone who has both broad and deep Ruby web development expertise was interested in writing such a book, we'd love to consider publishing it as part of the Pragmatic Bookshelf imprint. Cheers Dave > **路路路** > > On Jul 8, 2004, at 16:33, tony summerfelt wrote: > > > > But wouldn't it be swell to be able to go to the bookstore and > > > just buy "Developing Web Applications with Ruby" > > > > yeah it would 馃檪 give it time. as more people take notice that supply > > and demand thing will kick in with the books ---
**Author:** ![Lyle\_Johnson3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@Lyle\_Johnson3](https://rubytalk.org/u/Lyle_Johnson3)\ **Post date:** [9 July 2004 01:23 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/15 "2004-07-09T01:23:31Z")
I'm not even \*doing\* web development, and I'd buy it. 馃槈 > **路路路** > > On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 06:50:22 +0900, Dave Thomas \ wrote: > > > And if anyone who has both broad and deep Ruby web development > > expertise was interested in writing such a book, we'd love to consider > > publishing it as part of the Pragmatic Bookshelf imprint. ---
**Author:** ![MATTHEW\_REUBEN\_MARGO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc79bd/32.png) [@MATTHEW\_REUBEN\_MARGO](https://rubytalk.org/u/MATTHEW_REUBEN_MARGO)\ **Post date:** [9 July 2004 01:35 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ruby-advocacy-documentation-sponsorship/12425/16 "2004-07-09T01:35:56Z")
Lyle Johnson wrote: > **路路路** > > > On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 06:50:22 +0900, Dave Thomas \ wrote: > > > > > And if anyone who has both broad and deep Ruby web development > > > expertise was interested in writing such a book, we'd love to consider > > > publishing it as part of the Pragmatic Bookshelf imprint. > > >     > > > I'm not even \*doing\* web development, and I'd buy it. 馃槈 > > Seconded(Though I do dabble in web-development). > > -Matthew Margolis