Proposal to create a new mailing list

ruby-talk
21

Hi --

Who decides who the experts are?

Those who have been thanked for useful answer on ruby-talk@,
I guess.

That would include me, but I don't want to be put in a special
"experts" category or participate in any kind of stratification of the
community. I really hate all demarcation by levels, ranks, point
systems, and the rest of it. I know why they're done, and why people
like them, but I find them very unappealing. That's actually
something I've always treasured about the Ruby world: we don't label
people "novice" and "apprentice" and "wizard" and all that. We just
talk to each other.

David

···

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Michael Shigorin wrote:

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 01:39:56AM +0900, James Edward Gray II wrote:

--
Q. What is THE Ruby book for Rails developers?
A. RUBY FOR RAILS by David A. Black (http://www.manning.com/black\)
    (See what readers are saying! http://www.rubypal.com/r4rrevs.pdf\)
Q. Where can I get Ruby/Rails on-site training, consulting, coaching?
A. Ruby Power and Light, LLC (http://www.rubypal.com)

22

Or how about:

ruby-lang-new-mailing-list-discussion
ruby-lang-spam
ruby-lang-announcements-that-might-be-spam
ruby-lang-could-someone-do-my-homework-for-me-pretty-please

or my favorite:
ruby-lang-sarcasm :slight_smile:

Happy New Year everyone!!

Matt

···

On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 02:49 +0900, James Britt wrote:

Paulo Köch wrote:
> I think Daniel Schierbeck really wanted is to take n00b-caring off the ml.
>
> I think this is a good ideia to promote clean, good discussion and
> thought sharing. However, if the n00bs were to be "outcast" to a
> different system (yes, i think ml is not the best troubleshooting
> system), would you still go there and help them? And if you would, would
> the majority also go there? I don't think so. IMHO, i think this would
> just degrade the level of the community receptiveness. Do you really
> want to bipolarize it?

I suspect many here are already bipolar.

:slight_smile:

1) Banishing people to a Nuby Ghetto would be a Bad Thing.
2) Experts? Who decides? How 'bout we call the new list
"r00by-1337-h4x0rz!1!"

>
> If you really want poignant discussions, start them and make then
> regular. If you want to separate the "n00b noise", encourage tagging
> n00b mail. These are my two cents.

Life is what you make it.

23

Why not post to the list with a link to the blog, along with your thoughts?

I think this is a very good question.

Blogs are better in some ways. If you blog about the homework you want
other people to do for you, nobody's ever even going to see it.
Likewise if you have a thought it takes some time to develop, blogs
work slower, and encourage slower reactions. The worst blog fights
I've ever seen have been better than even mild flame wars.

At the same time, there's are good reasons mailing lists exist. But
the user of a Ruby mailing list is the Ruby community, and the user of
a blog about Ruby is also the Ruby community. So the idea that the
blogs and the mailing lists should serve the community in tandem, that
is actually a very, very good idea.

I think that sort of thing happens in general quite naturally, but
it'd be interesting to see what we could do deliberately to assist it.

I think that'd be a lot more useful than a ruby-experts list.

At the same time, I think it'd be really useful to stop the newbies
from being annoying AND make sure they have a forum to be newbies in.
There's a great post from Kathy Sierra's blog about how you have to do
this IF you want your user community to grow. It's targeted of course
at people who have that as an explicit goal; we seem to have it as a
phenomenon like the weather, something we can't do anything about
either way and just have to handle well whether we want to or not. But
since the community is growing and very probably will continue to
grow, it's worth thinking about.

http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2006/12/how_to_build_a_.html

I think a ruby-answers list might be the most useful thing. People are
coming onto the general Ruby list to get specific answers, there's a
type of fun in answering their questions, but it's different from the
higher-level discussions that can also happen. Dedicating a space to
that particular type of social interaction might clear this space a
little bit. (If that is in fact a good goal.)

···

--
Giles Bowkett
http://www.gilesgoatboy.org

http://gilesgoatboy.blogspot.com

24

Pat Maddox schrieb:

···

On 12/30/06, Pit Capitain <pit@capitain.de> wrote:

Trans schrieb:
> (...)
> Personally I think all these [Typo] blogs are the bane of of ruby-talk.
> Most posts would be much better served on a mailing list anyway.
> Communicating through blog comments is disorganized, decentralized,
> lacks audiance and cohesion. (...)

+1

Sometimes I read some blogs about Ruby, and often I wonder why those
messages aren't posted to ruby-talk. I almost never answer questions or
participate in discussions there for exactly the reasons you mention.

Why not post to the list with a link to the blog, along with your thoughts?

Nice idea, Pat. Best of both worlds. I'll give this a try the next time.

Regards,
Pit

25

How about someone post a comprehensive list of "ruby expert" blogs so that I
can add them to my RSS reader. I may not understand the topics yet, but
I've found that immersing myself in ruby has helped me quite a bit.

···

On 12/30/06, Pat Maddox <pergesu@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/06, Pit Capitain <pit@capitain.de> wrote:
> Trans schrieb:
> > (...)
> > Personally I think all these [Typo] blogs are the bane of of
ruby-talk.
> > Most posts would be much better served on a mailing list anyway.
> > Communicating through blog comments is disorganized, decentralized,
> > lacks audiance and cohesion. (...)
>
> +1
>
> Sometimes I read some blogs about Ruby, and often I wonder why those
> messages aren't posted to ruby-talk. I almost never answer questions or
> participate in discussions there for exactly the reasons you mention.

Why not post to the list with a link to the blog, along with your
thoughts?

26

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

There is also the "agility" factor. Ruby and Rails seem inextricably intertwined with the agile movement, and I think splitting the list up would be a step backwards in that respect.

What... in the spirit of newbies "pairing" with oldbies?

Actually, what if, in an attempt to emulate rotating pairs, we make the listserv randomly not deliver some messages to some people? That'll cut down on the amount that everybody has to read, but without being unnecessarily divisive!

Oh, wait...

Devin

27

I for one think that's an excellent name. +1

···

On 12/30/06, James Britt <james.britt@gmail.com> wrote:

2) Experts? Who decides? How 'bout we call the new list
"r00by-1337-h4x0rz!1!"

28

+1

  robert

···

On 03.01.2007 17:10, dblack@wobblini.net wrote:

That's actually
something I've always treasured about the Ruby world: we don't label
people "novice" and "apprentice" and "wizard" and all that. We just
talk to each other.

29

} Or how about:
}
} ruby-lang-new-mailing-list-discussion
} ruby-lang-spam
} ruby-lang-announcements-that-might-be-spam
} ruby-lang-could-someone-do-my-homework-for-me-pretty-please
}
} or my favorite:
} ruby-lang-sarcasm :slight_smile:

Best. Post. Ever.

} Happy New Year everyone!!
} Matt
--Greg

···

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 03:00:33AM +0900, matt wrote:

30

matt wrote:

Or how about:

ruby-lang-new-mailing-list-discussion
ruby-lang-spam
ruby-lang-announcements-that-might-be-spam
ruby-lang-could-someone-do-my-homework-for-me-pretty-please

or my favorite:
ruby-lang-sarcasm :slight_smile:

i think too many of you are bending this way out of shape. there are
good reasons for some division. honestly would you want all ruby-core
discussions on ruby-talk? how about rails discussions too? why bother
separating the japanese list from english? come on lets just have one
one big...

  ruby-enchilada

t.

31

Giles Bowkett wrote:

I think a ruby-answers list might be the most useful thing. People are
coming onto the general Ruby list to get specific answers, there's a
type of fun in answering their questions, but it's different from the
higher-level discussions that can also happen.

Indeed. I learned a lot of Ruby very quickly by answering questions (and reading others' answers) on ruby-talk.

Devin

32

Pat Maddox schrieb:
>> Trans schrieb:
>> > (...)
>> > Personally I think all these [Typo] blogs are the bane of of ruby-talk.
>> > Most posts would be much better served on a mailing list anyway.
>> > Communicating through blog comments is disorganized, decentralized,
>> > lacks audiance and cohesion. (...)
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Sometimes I read some blogs about Ruby, and often I wonder why those
>> messages aren't posted to ruby-talk. I almost never answer questions or
>> participate in discussions there for exactly the reasons you mention.
>
> Why not post to the list with a link to the blog, along with your thoughts?

Nice idea, Pat. Best of both worlds. I'll give this a try the next time.

Anyone want to take that a bit further and post a URL or two for
blog posts that you think should get more discussion here? There's
a lot of gold in them thar blogs -- if only there are enough people
interested in mining it.

···

On 12/30/06, Pit Capitain <pit@capitain.de> wrote:

> On 12/30/06, Pit Capitain <pit@capitain.de> wrote:

Regards,
Pit

--
thanks,
-pate
-------------------------

33

[...]
} How about someone post a comprehensive list of "ruby expert" blogs so that I
} can add them to my RSS reader. I may not understand the topics yet, but
} I've found that immersing myself in ruby has helped me quite a bit.

I won't claim that this is a comprehensive list, but I'll give you a few.

First and foremost, there is _why and his Redhanded blog
<http://redhanded.hobix.com/>. In fact, the top post right now includes a
list of quotes from Ruby luminaries with links to their presence on the
web, so that might be the comprehensive list you're looking for.

I also like Ola Bini's blog <http://ola-bini.blogspot.com/>, which is
largely about JRuby.

David A. Black, author of Ruby for Rails, has a blog
<http://dablog.rubypal.com/>, but it isn't as technical as might like most
of the time.

Now, it's up to you whether you want to consider me an "expert" or not, but
the sort of stuff I put on my blog <http://redcorundum.blogspot.com/> is
the sort of stuff I'd like to see from a Ruby "expert."

--Greg

···

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 08:21:44AM +0900, Jason Mayer wrote:

34

How about someone post a comprehensive list of "ruby expert" blogs so that I
can add them to my RSS reader. I may not understand the topics yet, but
I've found that immersing myself in ruby has helped me quite a bit.

In addition to those already posted:

http://blog.codahale.com
http://weblog.jamisbuck.org/
chad fowler
prag dave
james gray
pat eyler

...honestly the best place to start is probably just to pick posters
who seem intelligent and google them...

···

--
Giles Bowkett
http://www.gilesgoatboy.org

http://gilesgoatboy.blogspot.com

35

[...]
} Anyone want to take that a bit further and post a URL or two for
} blog posts that you think should get more discussion here? There's
} a lot of gold in them thar blogs -- if only there are enough people
} interested in mining it.

Well, I'll pimp my own Ruby blog. I only have a very few posts there, but I
generally only post when I learn something really interesting or come up
with a good way of doing something interesting, for varying values of
interesting.

http://redcorundum.blogspot.com/

} thanks,
} -pate
--Greg

···

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 08:07:05AM +0900, pat eyler wrote:

36

The Ruby website has some blogs and blog listings:
http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/community/weblogs/

Maybe start there?

···

On 12/30/06, Giles Bowkett <gilesb@gmail.com> wrote:

> How about someone post a comprehensive list of "ruby expert" blogs so that I
> can add them to my RSS reader. I may not understand the topics yet, but
> I've found that immersing myself in ruby has helped me quite a bit.

In addition to those already posted:

http://blog.codahale.com
http://weblog.jamisbuck.org/
chad fowler
prag dave
james gray
pat eyler

...honestly the best place to start is probably just to pick posters
who seem intelligent and google them...

--
Giles Bowkett
http://www.gilesgoatboy.org
http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com
http://gilesgoatboy.blogspot.com

37

Giles Bowkett wrote:

How about someone post a comprehensive list of "ruby expert" blogs so that I
can add them to my RSS reader. I may not understand the topics yet, but
I've found that immersing myself in ruby has helped me quite a bit.

In addition to those already posted:

http://blog.codahale.com
http://weblog.jamisbuck.org/
chad fowler
prag dave
james gray
pat eyler

...honestly the best place to start is probably just to pick posters
who seem intelligent and google them...

Then again, just because someone is intelligent and has blogged about Ruby, it isn't necessarily the case that they are a "Ruby expert". I've certainly blogged about Ruby, but I don't claim to be an expert with it. In fact, if you go poking around RubyForge, you can see I'm clearly a rank beginner in Ruby. :slight_smile:

···

--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, FBG, AB, PTA, PGS, MS, MNLP, NST, ACMC(P)
http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/

If God had meant for carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given rabbits fire.

38

Artima Forums - Ruby Buzz Forum has a nice line up
of ruby blog{,ger}s

martin

···

On 12/31/06, Giles Bowkett <gilesb@gmail.com> wrote:

> How about someone post a comprehensive list of "ruby expert" blogs so that I
> can add them to my RSS reader. I may not understand the topics yet, but
> I've found that immersing myself in ruby has helped me quite a bit.

In addition to those already posted:

http://blog.codahale.com
http://weblog.jamisbuck.org/
chad fowler
prag dave
james gray
pat eyler

...honestly the best place to start is probably just to pick posters
who seem intelligent and google them...

39

[...]
} Anyone want to take that a bit further and post a URL or two for
} blog posts that you think should get more discussion here? There's
} a lot of gold in them thar blogs -- if only there are enough people
} interested in mining it.

Well, I'll pimp my own Ruby blog. I only have a very few posts there, but I
generally only post when I learn something really interesting or come up
with a good way of doing something interesting, for varying values of
interesting.

http://redcorundum.blogspot.com/

Nice. Do you have a couple of favorite posts from your blog?
Something you'd like the ruby-talk/clr/ruby-forum to know about?

···

On 12/30/06, Gregory Seidman <gsslist+ruby@anthropohedron.net> wrote:

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 08:07:05AM +0900, pat eyler wrote:

} thanks,
} -pate
--Greg

--
thanks,
-pate
-------------------------

40

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

Giles Bowkett wrote:

How about someone post a comprehensive list of "ruby expert" blogs so that I
can add them to my RSS reader. I may not understand the topics yet, but
I've found that immersing myself in ruby has helped me quite a bit.

In addition to those already posted:

http://blog.codahale.com
http://weblog.jamisbuck.org/
chad fowler
prag dave
james gray
pat eyler

...honestly the best place to start is probably just to pick posters
who seem intelligent and google them...

Then again, just because someone is intelligent and has blogged about Ruby, it isn't necessarily the case that they are a "Ruby expert". I've certainly blogged about Ruby, but I don't claim to be an expert with it. In fact, if you go poking around RubyForge, you can see I'm clearly a rank beginner in Ruby. :slight_smile:

Often what's more useful than knowing is not knowing.

Some of the best blogs are from people asking interesting questions rather than making assertions.

···

--
James Britt

http://www.rubyaz.org - Hacking in the Desert
http://beginningruby.com - Beginning Ruby: The On-line Book
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys