# \[OT\] the name of Matz **URL:** \ **Category:** ruby-talk\ **Created:** [7 November 2006 14:26 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720 "2006-11-07T14:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Byung-Hee\_HWANG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Byung-Hee\_HWANG1](https://rubytalk.org/u/Byung-Hee_HWANG1)\ **Post date:** [7 November 2006 14:26 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/1 "2006-11-07T14:26:56Z")
Hello, I saw the full name of Matz, ruby creater, on the web [1]. However, I don't know what is family name in his full name. AFAIK, CIA uses all capital letters for family names because the factbook users are faced with a world of different cultures and naming conventions [2]. Therefore, I suggest that the full name of Matz might be mark from "Yukihiro Matsumoto" to "Yukihiro MATSUMOTO" if his family name is "Matsumoto". Sincerely, Byung-Hee [1] [http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/about/](http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/about/) [2] [https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html](https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html) ---
**Author:** ![Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://rubytalk.org/u/Yukihiro_Matsumoto2)\ **Post date:** [7 November 2006 15:34 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/2 "2006-11-07T15:34:43Z")
Hi, > **···** > > In message "Re: [OT] the name of Matz" on Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:26:56 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG \ writes: > > > I saw the full name of Matz, ruby creater, on the web [1]. However, I > > don't know what is family name in his full name. AFAIK, CIA uses all > > capital letters for family names because the factbook users are faced > > with a world of different cultures and naming conventions [2]. > > Therefore, I suggest that the full name of Matz might be mark from > > "Yukihiro Matsumoto" to "Yukihiro MATSUMOTO" if his family name is > > "Matsumoto". > > FYI, My family name is Matsumoto. I don't see family-name-capital > convention much in the English speaking countries, I hesitated to do > so in public. Just call me Matz. > >               matz. ---
**Author:** ![Josef\_Jupp\_SCHUGT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Josef\_Jupp\_SCHUGT](https://rubytalk.org/u/Josef_Jupp_SCHUGT)\ **Post date:** [7 November 2006 21:17 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/3 "2006-11-07T21:17:59Z")
\* Byung-Hee HWANG, 11/07/2006 03:26 PM: > I saw the full name of Matz, ruby creater, on the web [1]. However, I > don't know what is family name in his full name. AFAIK, CIA uses all > capital letters for family names because the factbook users are faced > with a world of different cultures and naming conventions [2]. > Therefore, I suggest that the full name of Matz might be mark from > "Yukihiro Matsumoto" to "Yukihiro MATSUMOTO" if his family name is > "Matsumoto". Talking about conventions one should keep in mind that ruby-talk also is comp.lang.ruby. On the Usenet writing words in all uppercase means that they are shouted (unless they are acronyms). Confusion about which part of a name is which is a general issue with languages. In many languages native speakers have little problem with identifying the parts but all languages have exeptions as well. In general German allows to identify the parts in the same way most languages do: By identifying words that are only use for first or last names. But this is not always the case: Suppose someone signs a message with "Hans Werner". This may mean that his first name is Hans and his last name is Werner but it may also mean that his first names are Hans and Werner. Even worse: If some signs a message with "Fritz" this may mean that his first name is "Fritz" but also that his last name is "Fritz". Both uses of the name exist. In my opinion the second-best solution is to ignore the issue and only solve problems when they arise instead of solving them in a way that adds other problems. The best one is what Matz does: Having a one-word nickname. This is helpful in real-life as well. I uses my nickname "Jupp" in real life as well. People have little to no problem to recall it even if they only meet me once 🙂 Jupp ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Brown1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/258eb7/32.png) [@Greg\_Brown1](https://rubytalk.org/u/Greg_Brown1)\ **Post date:** [8 November 2006 02:26 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/4 "2006-11-08T02:26:14Z")
MASUMOTO!!! 😉 By the way, that convention is true across IRC,Instant Messanger, Email, etc. It's not Usenet specific. (Though i'm not certain, it may indeed have originated there) > **···** > > On 11/7/06, Josef 'Jupp' Schugt \ wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > \* Byung-Hee HWANG, 11/07/2006 03:26 PM: > > \> I saw the full name of Matz, ruby creater, on the web [1]. However, I > > \> don't know what is family name in his full name. AFAIK, CIA uses all > > \> capital letters for family names because the factbook users are faced > > \> with a world of different cultures and naming conventions [2]. > > \> Therefore, I suggest that the full name of Matz might be mark from > > \> "Yukihiro Matsumoto" to "Yukihiro MATSUMOTO" if his family name is > > \> "Matsumoto". > > > > Talking about conventions one should keep in mind that ruby-talk also > > is comp.lang.ruby. On the Usenet writing words in all uppercase means > > that they are shouted (unless they are acronyms). ---
**Author:** ![Dido\_Sevilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Dido\_Sevilla](https://rubytalk.org/u/Dido_Sevilla)\ **Post date:** [8 November 2006 04:55 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/5 "2006-11-08T04:55:50Z")
By the way, I never seem to have seen Matz's name in Kanji. His name in the foreword of the Pickaxe book is all Hiragana. I imagine it might be: 松本元達 but then again, there seem to be hundreds of ways of writing ゆきひろ (Yukihiro) as a given name, and about a handful more ways to write the surname まつもと (Matsumoto). > **···** > > On 11/7/06, Yukihiro Matsumoto \ wrote: > > > FYI, My family name is Matsumoto. I don't see family-name-capital > > convention much in the English speaking countries, I hesitated to do > > so in public. Just call me Matz. ---
**Author:** ![Devin\_Mullins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/958977/32.png) [@Devin\_Mullins](https://rubytalk.org/u/Devin_Mullins)\ **Post date:** [8 November 2006 06:10 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/6 "2006-11-08T06:10:43Z")
Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote: > Just call me Matz. Question: When spoken, should it be 'a' as in "hats" or 'a' as in "blah" (or, oh, say, "Matsumoto")? Devin (as in 'French gin') ---
**Author:** ![Byung-Hee\_HWANG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Byung-Hee\_HWANG1](https://rubytalk.org/u/Byung-Hee_HWANG1)\ **Post date:** [9 November 2006 17:09 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/7 "2006-11-09T17:09:54Z")
Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote: > Hi, > > \>I saw the full name of Matz, ruby creater, on the web [1]. However, I > \>don't know what is family name in his full name. AFAIK, CIA uses all > \>capital letters for family names because the factbook users are faced > \>with a world of different cultures and naming conventions [2]. > \>Therefore, I suggest that the full name of Matz might be mark from > \>"Yukihiro Matsumoto" to "Yukihiro MATSUMOTO" if his family name is > \>"Matsumoto". > > FYI, My family name is Matsumoto. I don't see family-name-capital > convention much in the English speaking countries, I hesitated to do > so in public. Just call me Matz. Of course I know that almost all speakers using English as mother language do not use all capital letters for their family names as above you mentioned. Also I agree about your way, using just nick name. However, Akinori [3], a developer of FreeBSD Project, use all capital letters for family name. Why do Akinori do so? Someday far later, we may confuse with the issue. Thus, we need to make general rules than using just nick name. I want you consider the issue in all its aspects [4]. Sincerely, Byung-Hee [3][Akinori MUSHA - knu@FreeBSD.org](http://people.freebsd.org/~knu/) [4][Surname - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name#Cultures_of_China.2C_Japan.2C_Korea_and_Vietnam) > **···** > > > In message "Re: [OT] the name of Matz" \> on Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:26:56 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG \ writes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_W\_Kennedy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@John\_W\_Kennedy](https://rubytalk.org/u/John_W_Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2006 05:30 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/8 "2006-11-11T05:30:08Z")
Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote: > Hi, > > \>I saw the full name of Matz, ruby creater, on the web [1]. However, I > \>don't know what is family name in his full name. AFAIK, CIA uses all > \>capital letters for family names because the factbook users are faced > \>with a world of different cultures and naming conventions [2]. > \>Therefore, I suggest that the full name of Matz might be mark from > \>"Yukihiro Matsumoto" to "Yukihiro MATSUMOTO" if his family name is > \>"Matsumoto". > > FYI, My family name is Matsumoto. I don't see family-name-capital > convention much in the English speaking countries, I hesitated to do > so in public. Just call me Matz. It isn't usual, but is useful in reference material where the reader may be in some doubt about the order. The hero of "Kozure Okami" is called both "Itto Ogami" and "Ogami Itto" in English. > **···** > > > In message "Re: [OT] the name of Matz" \> on Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:26:56 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG \ writes: > > -- > John W. Kennedy > "The blind rulers of Logres > Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue." >    -- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude" ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Brown1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/258eb7/32.png) [@Greg\_Brown1](https://rubytalk.org/u/Greg_Brown1)\ **Post date:** [8 November 2006 02:27 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/9 "2006-11-08T02:27:00Z")
Not only was I yelling, I was also spelling Matz's name wrong. \ > **···** > > On 11/7/06, Gregory Brown \ wrote: > > > On 11/7/06, Josef 'Jupp' Schugt \ wrote: > > > \> Talking about conventions one should keep in mind that ruby-talk also > > \> is comp.lang.ruby. On the Usenet writing words in all uppercase means > > \> that they are shouted (unless they are acronyms). > > > > MASUMOTO!!! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://rubytalk.org/u/Yukihiro_Matsumoto2)\ **Post date:** [8 November 2006 05:37 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/10 "2006-11-08T05:37:50Z")
Hi, > **···** > > In message "Re: [OT] the name of Matz" on Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:55:50 +0900, "Dido Sevilla" \ writes: > > > 松本元達 > > The above Kanji rarely reads "Yukihiro". For curious, mine is > >   松本 行弘 > >               matz. ---
**Author:** ![Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://rubytalk.org/u/Yukihiro_Matsumoto2)\ **Post date:** [8 November 2006 06:33 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/11 "2006-11-08T06:33:18Z")
Hi, > **···** > > In message "Re: [OT] the name of Matz" on Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:10:43 +0900, Devin Mullins \ writes: > > > > Just call me Matz. > > > > Question: When spoken, should it be 'a' as in "hats" or 'a' as in "blah" > > (or, oh, say, "Matsumoto")? > > Ah, I was asked same question at the last RubyConf. The official > answer is "I don't care" (note: Japanese has only 5 vowels). English > speakers seem to use the former. > >               matz. ---
**Author:** ![Andreas\_Krohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Andreas\_Krohn](https://rubytalk.org/u/Andreas_Krohn)\ **Post date:** [8 November 2006 13:25 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/12 "2006-11-08T13:25:07Z")
Dido Sevilla wrote: > **···** > > > On 11/7/06, Yukihiro Matsumoto \ wrote: > > \> FYI, My family name is Matsumoto. I don't see family-name-capital > > \> convention much in the English speaking countries, I hesitated to do > > \> so in public. Just call me Matz. > > > > By the way, I never seem to have seen Matz's name in Kanji. His name > > in the foreword of the Pickaxe book is all Hiragana. I imagine it > > might be: > > > > 松本元達 > > > > but then again, there seem to be hundreds of ways of writing ゆきひろ > > (Yukihiro) as a given name, and about a handful more ways to write the > > surname まつもと (Matsumoto). ---
**Author:** ![Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://rubytalk.org/u/Yukihiro_Matsumoto2)\ **Post date:** [9 November 2006 23:23 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/13 "2006-11-09T23:23:18Z")
Hi, > **···** > > In message "Re: [OT] the name of Matz" on Fri, 10 Nov 2006 02:09:54 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG \ writes: > > > Of course I know that almost all speakers using English as mother > > language do not use all capital letters for their family names as above > > you mentioned. Also I agree about your way, using just nick name. > > However, Akinori [3], a developer of FreeBSD Project, use all capital > > letters for family name. Why do Akinori do so? > > I can't speak for him. You have to ask him. > > For your information, he is also one of our committers, a maintainer > of digest library among others. > >               matz. ---
**Author:** ![Dido\_Sevilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Dido\_Sevilla](https://rubytalk.org/u/Dido_Sevilla)\ **Post date:** [10 November 2006 05:30 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/14 "2006-11-10T05:30:49Z")
Actually, it seems to be a fairly common convention used by many Japanese (Matz excluded, of course) and Chinese (you included apparently), as it isn't always clear, especially to gaijin folks, which part of their name is the surname and which part is the given name. The fact that Japanese and Chinese generally write their surnames before their given names in their normal convention, and occasionally reverse it to follow the Western convention of given name first, adds to this confusion. Most of the Japanese people I've met seem to follow this convention on the English side of their business cards. > **···** > > On 11/10/06, Byung-Hee HWANG \ wrote: > > > Of course I know that almost all speakers using English as mother > > language do not use all capital letters for their family names as above > > you mentioned. Also I agree about your way, using just nick name. > > However, Akinori [3], a developer of FreeBSD Project, use all capital > > letters for family name. Why do Akinori do so? ---
**Author:** ![Akinori\_MUSHA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b782af/32.png) [@Akinori\_MUSHA](https://rubytalk.org/u/Akinori_MUSHA)\ **Post date:** [10 November 2006 08:18 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/15 "2006-11-10T08:18:43Z")
Hi, > \> \>I saw the full name of Matz, ruby creater, on the web [1]. However, I > \> \>don't know what is family name in his full name. AFAIK, CIA uses all > \> \>capital letters for family names because the factbook users are faced > \> \>with a world of different cultures and naming conventions [2]. > \> \>Therefore, I suggest that the full name of Matz might be mark from > \> \>"Yukihiro Matsumoto" to "Yukihiro MATSUMOTO" if his family name is > \> \>"Matsumoto". > \> > \> FYI, My family name is Matsumoto. I don't see family-name-capital > \> convention much in the English speaking countries, I hesitated to do > \> so in public. Just call me Matz. > > Of course I know that almost all speakers using English as mother > language do not use all capital letters for their family names as above > you mentioned. Also I agree about your way, using just nick name. > However, Akinori [3], a developer of FreeBSD Project, use all capital > letters for family name. Why do Akinori do so? It is just a local convention and I spell my name so just because I like it. It gives non-Japanese speaking readers a soft hint that MUSHA could be my family name, and helps me being called more in a friendlier form "Akinori" rather than excessively formal "MUSHA-san" with a deep stiff bow in English speaking places. 🙂 Although passports and other formal documents may have restrictions, one should be allowed to spell one's name as one wants, so long as it is used consistently and serves as social identification. > **···** > > At Fri, 10 Nov 2006 02:09:54 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > > -- >                      / >                     /\_\_ \_\_ Akinori.org / MUSHA.org >                    / ) ) ) ) / FreeBSD.org / Ruby-lang.org > Akinori MUSHA aka / (\_ / ( (\_\_( @ iDaemons.org / and.or.jp > > "Different eyes see different things, >     Different hearts beat on different strings -- >        But there are times for you and me when all such things agree" ---
**Author:** ![Josef\_Jupp\_SCHUGT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Josef\_Jupp\_SCHUGT](https://rubytalk.org/u/Josef_Jupp_SCHUGT)\ **Post date:** [11 November 2006 13:10 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/16 "2006-11-11T13:10:43Z")
\* John W. Kennedy, 11/11/2006 06:30 AM: > It isn't usual, but is useful in reference material where the > reader may be in some doubt about the order. The hero of "Kozure > Okami" is called both "Itto Ogami" and "Ogami Itto" in English. For reference one should use kanji with furigana and only add latin transcription if absolutely necessary. On web pages one can use Ruby (not the programming language 🙂 to add furigana. Problem with transcription is that depending on the target language it can sometimes be almost impossible to recoginize one language's approximation if one is used to another language one's. While the problem is only limited for Japanese it can be annoying for other languages like Chinese and slavic ones ('Standard' means an international standard transcription): Standard: Tokyo German: Tokio Standard: Guangdong German: Kanton Standard: Čebyčev German: Tschebytscheff (among others) The last of these is an extremely annoying problem. Given you want information on Čebyčev polynomials chances are good that you only find a minor part of the material available because myriards of different spellings are used 😑 I use to call this issue "Babel aftermath". Jupp ---
**Author:** ![Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Yukihiro\_Matsumoto2](https://rubytalk.org/u/Yukihiro_Matsumoto2)\ **Post date:** [8 November 2006 03:48 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/17 "2006-11-08T03:48:16Z")
Hi, > **···** > > In message "Re: [OT] the name of Matz" on Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:27:00 +0900, "Gregory Brown" \ writes: > > > > MASUMOTO!!! 😉 > > > > Not only was I yelling, I was also spelling Matz's name wrong. > > \ > > And it was my classmate's family name. Really. > >               matz. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@Joe\_Ruby](https://rubytalk.org/u/Joe_Ruby)\ **Post date:** [10 November 2006 01:18 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/18 "2006-11-10T01:18:27Z")
Related to this subject, is "why" his first name or family name? And how is the \_ in front of why (i.e. \_why) supposed to be pronounced? Or is it silent? And what does it symbolize? Joe > **···** > > -- > Posted via [http://www.ruby-forum.com/](http://www.ruby-forum.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Forum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/43a26b/32.png) [@Forum](https://rubytalk.org/u/Forum)\ **Post date:** [10 November 2006 14:10 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/19 "2006-11-10T14:10:39Z")
\ Please do not confuse me with details, just tell me: How many "matzes" are there, up to now I counted... ... well 42 of course 😉 Robert > **···** > > -- > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress > depends on the unreasonable man. > > - George Bernard Shaw ---
**Author:** ![Austin\_Ziegler5](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/rubytalk.org/austin_ziegler5/32/1985_2.png) [@Austin\_Ziegler5](https://rubytalk.org/u/Austin_Ziegler5)\ **Post date:** [12 November 2006 04:19 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720/20 "2006-11-12T04:19:15Z")
I would personally expect Byung-Hee to be from Korea, given the email address provided. But I could be wrong. -austin > **···** > > On 11/10/06, Dido Sevilla \ wrote: > > > On 11/10/06, Byung-Hee HWANG \ wrote: > > Actually, it seems to be a fairly common convention used by many > > Japanese (Matz excluded, of course) and Chinese (you included > > apparently), > > -- > Austin Ziegler \* halostatue@gmail.com \* [http://www.halostatue.ca/](http://www.halostatue.ca/) >                \* austin@halostatue.ca \* [You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike. // halo • statue](http://www.halostatue.ca/feed/) >                \* austin@zieglers.ca [Next page](https://rubytalk.org/t/ot-the-name-of-matz/32720.md?page=2)