# Is There a Formal List on What "Surprises" in Ruby? **URL:** \ **Category:** ruby-talk\ **Created:** [25 September 2002 18:03 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/is-there-a-formal-list-on-what-surprises-in-ruby/1983 "2002-09-25T18:03:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![William\_Djaja\_Tjokro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c89c15/32.png) [@William\_Djaja\_Tjokro](https://rubytalk.org/u/William_Djaja_Tjokro)\ **Post date:** [25 September 2002 18:03 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/is-there-a-formal-list-on-what-surprises-in-ruby/1983/1 "2002-09-25T18:03:22Z")
Hi, I think from time to time there are discussions on things that people find surprising in Ruby. However, is there a formal compiled list of all such things already? I know that whether a feature makes it into the list really depends on the programming background of the person, but probably "some programming experience" is good enough to be a criterion, and probably we want to be more on the safe side than being too restrictive. The intention is not to debate the feature, but just to list the feature, probably with some explanation. Hopefully such a list can be really beneficial for newcomers to Ruby. If there is no such formal list, I don’t mind being a maintainer. Regards, Bill ---
**Author:** ![Lyle\_Johnson6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bb73d2/32.png) [@Lyle\_Johnson6](https://rubytalk.org/u/Lyle_Johnson6)\ **Post date:** [25 September 2002 19:23 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/is-there-a-formal-list-on-what-surprises-in-ruby/1983/2 "2002-09-25T19:23:32Z")
William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote: > I think from time to time there are discussions on things that people find > surprising in Ruby. However, is there a formal compiled list of all such > things already? I know that whether a feature makes it into the list > really depends on the programming background of the person, but probably > “some programming experience” is good enough to be a criterion, and > probably we want to be more on the safe side than being too restrictive. > > The intention is not to debate the feature, but just to list the feature, > probably with some explanation. Hopefully such a list can be really > beneficial for newcomers to Ruby. If there is no such formal list, I > don’t mind being a maintainer. I’ve never run across such as list. This FAQ list: ``` http://www.rubycentral.com/faq/rubyfaqall.html ``` may give you some ideas about things that are frequently asked about. Also, the “When Trouble Strikes” chapter of “Programming Ruby”: ``` http://www.rubycentral.com/book/trouble.html ``` has a section titled “But It Doesn’t Work!” which lists “common gotchas and other tips”. This might be a good source as well. Hope this helps, Lyle ---
**Author:** ![David\_Alan\_Black1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/278dde/32.png) [@David\_Alan\_Black1](https://rubytalk.org/u/David_Alan_Black1)\ **Post date:** [25 September 2002 20:09 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/is-there-a-formal-list-on-what-surprises-in-ruby/1983/3 "2002-09-25T20:09:10Z")
Hi – > **···** > > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I think from time to time there are discussions on things that people find > > surprising in Ruby. However, is there a formal compiled list of all such > > things already? I know that whether a feature makes it into the list > > really depends on the programming background of the person, but probably > > “some programming experience” is good enough to be a criterion, and > > probably we want to be more on the safe side than being too restrictive. > > > > The intention is not to debate the feature, but just to list the feature, > > probably with some explanation. Hopefully such a list can be really > > beneficial for newcomers to Ruby. If there is no such formal list, I > > don’t mind being a maintainer. > > I think that’s a good idea, though I would encourage you to avoid > using the “surprise” notion specifically. This inevitably suggests > POLS, which then semi-inevitably leads to at least the implication > that these “surprising” features are things that should be eliminated > or changed. > > David > > – > David Alan Black | Register for RubyConf 2002! > home: [dblack@candle.superlink.net](mailto:dblack@candle.superlink.net) | November 1-3 > work: blackdav@shu.edu | Seattle, WA, USA > Web: [http://pirate.shu.edu/~blackdav](http://pirate.shu.edu/~blackdav) | [http://www.rubyconf.com](http://www.rubyconf.com) ---
**Author:** ![William\_Djaja\_Tjokro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c89c15/32.png) [@William\_Djaja\_Tjokro](https://rubytalk.org/u/William_Djaja_Tjokro)\ **Post date:** [25 September 2002 20:03 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/is-there-a-formal-list-on-what-surprises-in-ruby/1983/4 "2002-09-25T20:03:36Z")
Hi, Actually I am thinking something more like Andrew Koenig’s “C Traps and Pitfalls” than Steve Summit’s “C Programming FAQs”. The “When Trouble Strikes” can be a good starting point, but it does not have things like the different precedence between “!, &&, ||” and “not, and, or”, which seems to have tripped some people in the past. Regards, Bill > **···** > > ============================================================================= > Lyle Johnson [lyle@users.sourceforge.net](mailto:lyle@users.sourceforge.net) wrote: > > > I’ve never run across such as list. This FAQ list: > > > [http://www.rubycentral.com/faq/rubyfaqall.html](http://www.rubycentral.com/faq/rubyfaqall.html) > > > may give you some ideas about things that are frequently asked about. > > Also, the “When Trouble Strikes” chapter of “Programming Ruby”: > > > [http://www.rubycentral.com/book/trouble.html](http://www.rubycentral.com/book/trouble.html) > > > has a section titled “But It Doesn’t Work!” which lists “common gotchas > > and other tips”. This might be a good source as well. > > > Hope this helps, > > > Lyle ---
**Author:** ![William\_Djaja\_Tjokro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c89c15/32.png) [@William\_Djaja\_Tjokro](https://rubytalk.org/u/William_Djaja_Tjokro)\ **Post date:** [25 September 2002 20:43 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/is-there-a-formal-list-on-what-surprises-in-ruby/1983/5 "2002-09-25T20:43:45Z")
Hi David, It is a very good point. How if I call it officially “Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know”? Should I start working now? If yes, I need inputs from people, in addition to my own searching through the web/this group. If more appropriate, probably people can send e-mail’s directly to me. I will post the list periodically. Also, if someone else wants to do the task, I will be more than happy. Regards, Bill > **···** > > ========================================================================== > [dblack@candle.superlink.net](mailto:dblack@candle.superlink.net) wrote: > > > I think that’s a good idea, though I would encourage you to avoid > > using the “surprise” notion specifically. This inevitably suggests > > POLS, which then semi-inevitably leads to at least the implication > > that these “surprising” features are things that should be eliminated > > or changed. > > > David > > > – > > David Alan Black | Register for RubyConf 2002! > > home: [dblack@candle.superlink.net](mailto:dblack@candle.superlink.net) | November 1-3 > > work: blackdav@shu.edu | Seattle, WA, USA > > Web: [http://pirate.shu.edu/~blackdav](http://pirate.shu.edu/~blackdav) | [http://www.rubyconf.com](http://www.rubyconf.com) ---
**Author:** ![Harry\_Ohlsen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Harry\_Ohlsen2](https://rubytalk.org/u/Harry_Ohlsen2)\ **Post date:** [25 September 2002 20:46 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/is-there-a-formal-list-on-what-surprises-in-ruby/1983/6 "2002-09-25T20:46:27Z")
The first chapter of “The Ruby Way” discusses quite a few items that could go in a “Ruby Traps and Pitfalls” list. ---
**Author:** ![Mauricio\_Fernndez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Mauricio\_Fernndez](https://rubytalk.org/u/Mauricio_Fernndez)\ **Post date:** [26 September 2002 16:57 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/is-there-a-formal-list-on-what-surprises-in-ruby/1983/7 "2002-09-26T16:57:18Z")
This looks to me like the kind of thing the Wiki would be good for… > **···** > > On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 05:43:45AM +0900, William Djaja Tjokroaminata wrote: > > > Hi David, > > > > It is a very good point. How if I call it officially “Things That > > Newcomers to Ruby Should Know”? > > > > Should I start working now? If yes, I need inputs from people, in > > addition to my own searching through the web/this group. If more > > appropriate, probably people can send e-mail’s directly to me. I will > > post the list periodically. Also, if someone else wants to do the task, I > > will be more than happy. > > – > \_ \_ > > > > \_\_ \_\_ _| |_ \_\_\_ \_ \_\_ \_\_\_ \_\_ \_ \_ \_\_ > > > '\_ \ / _`| __/__ | '_` \_ \ / ` | ’ \ > > > ) | (| | |_\_\_ \ | | | | | (_| | | | | > > > .\_\_/ \_,_|\ __|__ /| |_| |_|\__,_|_| |\_| > > > Running Debian GNU/Linux Sid (unstable) > > > batsman dot geo at yahoo dot com > > abuse me. I’m so lame I sent a bug report to debian-devel-changes > – Seen on #Debian ---
**Author:** ![William\_Djaja\_Tjokro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c89c15/32.png) [@William\_Djaja\_Tjokro](https://rubytalk.org/u/William_Djaja_Tjokro)\ **Post date:** [25 September 2002 21:03 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/is-there-a-formal-list-on-what-surprises-in-ruby/1983/8 "2002-09-25T21:03:48Z")
Hi, Thanks for the information. Probably I should take a look at the book (so far it seems people here have very favorable opinion on the book, but I don’t have a chance yet as I am busy writing the C-side of my Ruby project.) Regards, Bill > **···** > > ============================================================================ > Harry Ohlsen [harryo@zip.com.au](mailto:harryo@zip.com.au) wrote: > > > The first chapter of “The Ruby Way” discusses quite a few items that could go > > in a “Ruby Traps and Pitfalls” list.