# Help -- persuade my boss to adopt ruby **URL:** \ **Category:** ruby-talk\ **Created:** [12 December 2002 20:48 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/help-persuade-my-boss-to-adopt-ruby/3589 "2002-12-12T20:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gbanschbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@Gbanschbach](https://rubytalk.org/u/Gbanschbach)\ **Post date:** [12 December 2002 20:48 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/help-persuade-my-boss-to-adopt-ruby/3589/1 "2002-12-12T20:48:02Z")
I have found that convincing management is really more a matter of showing them “evidence” in addition to my own opinion. So, get case studies. Or get anecdotal evidence. See if you can use Ruby for a small project where the Bourne Shell or C, or Visual Duh would have been used… Talk to your in-house Java people. Ask them to please just review some of this “evidence” and try it out. If any of them have worked with scripting before…they will probably like it. You see, management typically is averse to RISK. I have been on job interviews where the manager said they would prefer to use software X for a project, but even though it was a better product, they didn’t want to be singled out as the “bad guy” who suggested it… so they went with Micro$oft because they said they could just blame it on them. When you can tell UPPER management that they have to wait for a BIG company to get around to fixing it, OR that the big guy is to blame , then your job is safer [ and with all of the layoffs we’ve witnessed, they are REALLY averse to risk]. [ This does not imply that the intention is to lay blame on them for a fixable problem ]. This reminds me of the character - Vs - GUI debate. If I want to check on a backup, or check on a print job from home, or over a not-so-fast connection, do you think I care about the GUI interface which takes 3 to 5 times longer to get to ? Or do I want to just telnet in, and type a command, get my data and logout in the same timeframe…? GUI’s are ALOT sexier than character based apps. The marketing people say so. The perception is that GUI is therefore always going to be better… I think it depends on what purposes these changes serve… In the case of support personnel …SPEED is paramount. IF you are a data entry clerk, GUI’s are not going to remain sexy - or very exciting beyond 30 days if the old interface allowed them to work faster, or was more helpfull in doing their jobs. Good Luck…we’ve all been there… Greg ``` Shannon Fang > cc: 12/11/02 06:36 PM Please respond to ruby-talk ``` What do you mean making waves? Confused… Shannon > **···** > > Subject: Re: help – persuade my boss to adopt ruby > On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:00:28 +0900 “Ted” [ted@datacomm.com](mailto:ted@datacomm.com) wrote: > > > Unfortunately, people rise in management by NOT making waves… > > > > > Hi Phil, > > > > > > You are absolutely right. What they fear is that: > > > > > > 1. Currently only I understand Ruby. > > > 2. Java is in vogue. They want the language to be there after 10-20 > > > years… > > > > > > I am currently writing a small introduction letter to my boss… > > > > > > Shannon ---
**Author:** ![Shannon\_Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Shannon\_Fang](https://rubytalk.org/u/Shannon_Fang)\ **Post date:** [12 December 2002 21:15 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/help-persuade-my-boss-to-adopt-ruby/3589/2 "2002-12-12T21:15:13Z")
Hi, > **···** > > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 05:48:02 +0900 [GBanschbach@sandata.com](mailto:GBanschbach@sandata.com) wrote: > > > I have found that convincing management is really more a matter of showing > > them “evidence” in addition to my own opinion. So, get case studies. > > Or get anecdotal evidence. See if you can use Ruby for a small project > > where the Bourne Shell or C, or Visual Duh would have been used… > > Talk to your in-house Java people. Ask them to please just review some > > of this “evidence” and try it out. If any of them have worked with > > scripting before…they will probably like it. > > Actually, the BIGGEST problem for them now is only ONE: supportability. > Now only I know Ruby, and they just say that it is not a widely used > language etc. I will have some change of debate in the future, may be > next January/February. > > Shannon ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Freeze2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jim\_Freeze2](https://rubytalk.org/u/Jim_Freeze2)\ **Post date:** [12 December 2002 21:54 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/help-persuade-my-boss-to-adopt-ruby/3589/3 "2002-12-12T21:54:46Z")
> Hi, > > Actually, the BIGGEST problem for them now is only ONE: supportability. Like I said before: Program in ruby for 2 days and you will know the language better than perl (possibly java/c++). Any programmer at your workplace worthy of their paycheck should be able to be a fluent ruby programmer within a week. If not, then you’ve just identified someone that you can get rid of. 😉 Don’t forget about maintainability. After unit tests, this is my mantra for Ruby. > Now only I know Ruby, and they just say that it is not a widely used > language etc. I will have some change of debate in the future, may be > next January/February. It is more popular than Python in Japan. The support I have received from this mailing list is far better than any support that I paid Microsoft for…and a lot cheaper. > **···** > > On Friday, 13 December 2002 at 6:15:13 +0900, Shannon Fang wrote: > > > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 05:48:02 +0900 \> [GBanschbach@sandata.com](mailto:GBanschbach@sandata.com) wrote: > > ## – Jim Freeze > > f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. ---
**Author:** ![Shannon\_Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Shannon\_Fang](https://rubytalk.org/u/Shannon_Fang)\ **Post date:** [12 December 2002 22:03 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/help-persuade-my-boss-to-adopt-ruby/3589/4 "2002-12-12T22:03:43Z")
Jim, > Any programmer at your workplace worthy of their paycheck should be > able to be a fluent ruby programmer within a week. If not, then > you’ve just identified someone that you can get rid of. 😉 > Unfortunately, I am not the decision maker ☹ > Don’t forget about maintainability. After unit tests, this is my > mantra for Ruby. > What is unit tests? > It is more popular than Python in Japan. The support I have received > from this mailing list is far better than any support that I paid > Microsoft for…and a lot cheaper. > Now this trick won’t work EVER in a company. I have tried many times > before in other companies about other stuff, like Apache, Linux… My > experience tell me that they don’t trust freebies… For Ruby my hope is > they can believe we have in-house support ability any time… Shannon > **···** > > On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 06:54:46 +0900 Jim Freeze [jim@freeze.org](mailto:jim@freeze.org) wrote: ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Freeze2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jim\_Freeze2](https://rubytalk.org/u/Jim_Freeze2)\ **Post date:** [12 December 2002 22:18 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/help-persuade-my-boss-to-adopt-ruby/3589/5 "2002-12-12T22:18:59Z")
Agreed. Tell you what, why don’t we form support company and charge folks who want to pay to send email to ruby-talk. I know that David Black has access to a paypal account. 🙂 > **···** > > On Friday, 13 December 2002 at 7:03:43 +0900, Shannon Fang wrote: > > > > It is more popular than Python in Japan. The support I have received > > > from this mailing list is far better than any support that I paid > > > Microsoft for…and a lot cheaper. > > > Now this trick won’t work EVER in a company. I have tried many times > > > before in other companies about other stuff, like Apache, Linux… My > > > experience tell me that they don’t trust freebies… For Ruby my hope is > > > they can believe we have in-house support ability any time… > > ## – Jim Freeze > > What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away.