# C++ Exception compatibility idea **URL:** \ **Category:** ruby-talk\ **Created:** [13 May 2004 20:58 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526 "2004-05-13T20:58:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Asfand\_Yar\_Qazi5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Asfand\_Yar\_Qazi5](https://rubytalk.org/u/Asfand_Yar_Qazi5)\ **Post date:** [13 May 2004 20:58 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/1 "2004-05-13T20:58:49Z")
Hi, I have a dream… no, it doesn’t involve little black kids and little white kids, it involves Ruby (or some other scripting language) and C++. I’d love it if a language supported a feature whereby a C++ exception thrown in a C++ function is automatically processed and caught in an enclosing Ruby raise/rescue block, and a Ruby exception is caught and processed in a C++ try/catch block. Obviously, I could create wrappers that do this at every language boundary (which is easy) but it would be cool if this was built into the interpreter, so it could be done without having to go through any hassle. I read on the Ruby wiki that it is being considered that Rite be written (or Riten lol) in C++… could this be a neat little feature? Thanks, Asfand Yar > **···** > > – > [http://www.it-is-truth.org/](http://www.it-is-truth.org/) ---
**Author:** ![HAL\_9000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/90ced4/32.png) [@HAL\_9000](https://rubytalk.org/u/HAL_9000)\ **Post date:** [13 May 2004 21:14 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/2 "2004-05-13T21:14:37Z")
Asfand Yar Qazi wrote: > I’d love it if a language supported a feature whereby a C++ exception > thrown in a C++ function is automatically processed and caught in an > enclosing Ruby raise/rescue block, and a Ruby exception is caught and > processed in a C++ try/catch block. > > Obviously, I could create wrappers that do this at every language > boundary (which is easy) but it would be cool if this was built into the > interpreter, so it could be done without having to go through any hassle. > > I read on the Ruby wiki that it is being considered that Rite be written > (or Riten lol) in C++… could this be a neat little feature? I think this _might_ be accomplished with some kind of add-on wrapper lib for C extensions. My knowledge is limited there, so don’t take me too seriously. As for implementing Rite in C++, I seem to remember Matz saying he would _not_ do such a thing. Where on the wiki did you see the comment? Hal ---
**Author:** ![Ptkwt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f14d63/32.png) [@Ptkwt](https://rubytalk.org/u/Ptkwt)\ **Post date:** [13 May 2004 23:23 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/3 "2004-05-13T23:23:51Z")
In article [40A3E539.2010204@hypermetrics.com](mailto:40A3E539.2010204@hypermetrics.com), > Asfand Yar Qazi wrote: > > I read on the Ruby wiki that it is being considered that Rite be written > > (or Riten lol) in C++… could this be a neat little feature? > > As for implementing Rite in C++, I seem to remember Matz saying he would > _not_ do such a thing. Where on the wiki did you see the comment? I’ve been thinking lately that it might be easier to do a Ruby implementation in Objective-C. Seems like it could make life a bit easier because Objective-C and Ruby have some things in common philosophically. Also you could take advantage of Obj-C’s collection classes where needed. Since Objective-C is just an add-on to C it probably wouldn’t be too hard to build on existing code. Also, Objective C is supported by GCC. …of course, the downside on Windows is that the Microsoft compilers don’t support Objective C so all builds would have to be done under Cygwin or MinGW. That may be a problem for some. There wouldn’t be any problems on the Mac OSX platform, though 😉 Phil > **···** > > Hal Fulton [hal9000@hypermetrics.com](mailto:hal9000@hypermetrics.com) wrote: ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Georgi1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Matthias\_Georgi1](https://rubytalk.org/u/Matthias_Georgi1)\ **Post date:** [13 May 2004 23:52 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/4 "2004-05-13T23:52:50Z")
But you have to ship also the Objective-C runtime lib, so you have either the dependancy or it will blow up the interpreter in static builds. Recently, I was looking into ocaml and was impressed by the type inference system, proving that c++ templating is the wrong way, also the pattern matching is a nice concept. And concerning speed, ocamlc is unbeatable. Just for fun I looked at the great language shootout page and there is a nice score matrix. I typed in for CPU 1, Memory 2 and Lines of Code 3 as factors and voila, ocaml at the first two ranks and ruby at rank 5. Finally it depends on matz’s language skills, impementing the interpeter is hard enough and I think, a reasonable fast implementation is possible in all of the common languages (non interpreted). > **···** > > On Fri, 14 May 2004 08:23:51 +0900, Phil Tomson [ptkwt@aracnet.com](mailto:ptkwt@aracnet.com) wrote: > > > I’ve been thinking lately that it might be easier to do a Ruby > > implementation in Objective-C. Seems like it could make life a bit > > easier > > because Objective-C and Ruby have some things in common philosophically. > > Also you could take advantage of Obj-C’s collection classes where needed. > > Since Objective-C is just an add-on to C it probably wouldn’t be too hard > > to build on existing code. Also, Objective C is supported by GCC. > > – > Matthias Georgi > [matti\_g@gmx.de](mailto:matti_g@gmx.de) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Freeze2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jim\_Freeze2](https://rubytalk.org/u/Jim_Freeze2)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 02:29 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/5 "2004-05-14T02:29:30Z")
Matz has also said that you shouldn’t write an OO language in an OO language. > **···** > > On Friday, 14 May 2004 at 8:23:51 +0900, Phil Tomson wrote: > > > In article [40A3E539.2010204@hypermetrics.com](mailto:40A3E539.2010204@hypermetrics.com), > > > > I’ve been thinking lately that it might be easier to do a Ruby > > implementation in Objective-C. Seems like it could make life a bit easier > > because Objective-C and Ruby have some things in common philosophically. > > Also you could take advantage of Obj-C’s collection classes where needed. > > Since Objective-C is just an add-on to C it probably wouldn’t be too hard > > to build on existing code. Also, Objective C is supported by GCC. > > – > Jim Freeze > The man who follows the crowd will usually get no further than the > crowd. The man who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no > one has ever been. > – Alan Ashley-Pitt ---
**Author:** ![James\_F\_Hranicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@James\_F\_Hranicky](https://rubytalk.org/u/James_F_Hranicky)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 10:44 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/6 "2004-05-14T10:44:04Z")
I brought this up a long time ago, but I don’t know if I brought it up well. I think it would be great if Ruby could be used as a frontend for the ObjC runtime for GNUstep or OSX. Ruby Objects are just handles for ObjC objects. Ideally, any extension written in ObjC would automatically be available in Ruby. Feasible? I have no idea, but if it is, it seems like you could get just about all the features desired out of such a backend, since they’re already there in the ObjC runtime. Jim > **···** > > On Fri, 14 May 2004 08:23:51 +0900 [ptkwt@aracnet.com](mailto:ptkwt@aracnet.com) (Phil Tomson) wrote: > > > I’ve been thinking lately that it might be easier to do a Ruby > > implementation in Objective-C. Seems like it could make life a bit easier > > because Objective-C and Ruby have some things in common philosophically. > > Also you could take advantage of Obj-C’s collection classes where needed. > > Since Objective-C is just an add-on to C it probably wouldn’t be too hard > > to build on existing code. Also, Objective C is supported by GCC. ---
**Author:** ![Stephen\_Steiner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Stephen\_Steiner](https://rubytalk.org/u/Stephen_Steiner)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 00:14 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/7 "2004-05-14T00:14:33Z")
I’m trying to install Ruby’s readline module on OS X and am having the following problem: When I run: ruby extconf.rb I get: checking for tgetnum() in -lncurses… yes checking for readline/readline.h… yes checking for readline/history.h… yes checking for readline() in -lreadline… no The question is, where are the paths that ‘have\_library()’ is going to search? It is finding the header files but can’t seem to find the library (libreadline.a). Thanks! Steve ---
**Author:** ![jm13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5fc32e/32.png) [@jm13](https://rubytalk.org/u/jm13)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 02:53 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/8 "2004-05-14T02:53:33Z")
Why not cut out the middle man and write a gcc compiler for ruby? Just to throw a crazy idea around. J. ps. like the sig. > **···** > > On 14/05/2004, at 12:29 PM, Jim Freeze wrote: > > > On Friday, 14 May 2004 at 8:23:51 +0900, Phil Tomson wrote: > > > > > In article [40A3E539.2010204@hypermetrics.com](mailto:40A3E539.2010204@hypermetrics.com), > > > > > > I’ve been thinking lately that it might be easier to do a Ruby > > > implementation in Objective-C. Seems like it could make life a bit > > > easier > > > because Objective-C and Ruby have some things in common > > > philosophically. > > > Also you could take advantage of Obj-C’s collection classes where > > > needed. > > > Since Objective-C is just an add-on to C it probably wouldn’t be too > > > hard > > > to build on existing code. Also, Objective C is supported by GCC. > > > > Matz has also said that you shouldn’t write an OO language in an OO > > language. > > > > – > > Jim Freeze > > The man who follows the crowd will usually get no further than the > > crowd. The man who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no > > one has ever been. > > – Alan Ashley-Pitt ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Campbell1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Michael\_Campbell1](https://rubytalk.org/u/Michael_Campbell1)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 03:20 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/9 "2004-05-14T03:20:07Z")
Jim Freeze wrote: > Matz has also said that you shouldn’t write an OO language in an OO > language. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Roberts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sam\_Roberts](https://rubytalk.org/u/Sam_Roberts)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 12:46 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/10 "2004-05-14T12:46:14Z")
Wrote “James F. Hranicky” [jfh@cise.ufl.edu](mailto:jfh@cise.ufl.edu), on Fri, May 14, 2004 at 07:44:04PM +0900: > **···** > > > On Fri, 14 May 2004 08:23:51 +0900 \> [ptkwt@aracnet.com](mailto:ptkwt@aracnet.com) (Phil Tomson) wrote: > > I brought this up a long time ago, but I don’t know if I brought it up well. > > > > I think it would be great if Ruby could be used as a frontend for the ObjC > > runtime for GNUstep or OSX. Ruby Objects are just handles for ObjC objects. > > Check out Ruby/cocoa, it sounds like what you want. > > Sam > > – > Sam Roberts [sroberts@certicom.com](mailto:sroberts@certicom.com) ---
**Author:** ![Aredridel1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Aredridel1](https://rubytalk.org/u/Aredridel1)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 15:27 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/11 "2004-05-14T15:27:40Z")
> I brought this up a long time ago, but I don’t know if I brought it up well. > > I think it would be great if Ruby could be used as a frontend for the ObjC > runtime for GNUstep or OSX. Ruby Objects are just handles for ObjC objects. > > Ideally, any extension written in ObjC would automatically be available in > Ruby. Have you tried RIGS or ruby-cocoa? Ari ---
**Author:** ![Shu-yu\_Guo1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Shu-yu\_Guo1](https://rubytalk.org/u/Shu-yu_Guo1)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 00:27 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/12 "2004-05-14T00:27:02Z")
It looks like that it adds CONFIG[‘libdir’] to -L. As a sidenote, perhaps it would be easier if you used a ports system to compile your Unix stuff, like DawrinPorts. It saves me a good deal of trouble. > **···** > > On May 13, 2004, at 20:14, Stephen Steiner wrote: > > > The question is, where are the paths that ‘have\_library()’ is going to > > search? It is finding the header files but can’t seem to find the > > library (libreadline.a). > > – > Lo-lee-ta: the tip of the tongue taking a trip of three > steps down the palate to tap, at three, on the teeth. > Lo. Lee. Ta. GUO Shu-yu [shu@rufuran.org](mailto:shu@rufuran.org) ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Hubbart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b77776/32.png) [@Mark\_Hubbart](https://rubytalk.org/u/Mark_Hubbart)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 02:41 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/13 "2004-05-14T02:41:32Z")
Have you installed a copy of readline on your system? There are two possibilities here: 1. make and install a readline library, or 2. if you were lucky enough to have a copy installed with your developer tools, link it to your /usr/lib directory. If a copy was installed, it should be under “/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/readline.framework/”; If it’s not there, you’ll probably have to compile a copy. Since it was installed on mine, I haven’t had to compile it. But I hear that other people’s setups don’t have it, so I don’t know. HTH, –Mark > **···** > > On May 13, 2004, at 5:14 PM, Stephen Steiner wrote: > > > I’m trying to install Ruby’s readline module on OS X and am having the > > following problem: > > > > When I run: > > > > ruby extconf.rb > > > > I get: > > > > checking for tgetnum() in -lncurses… yes > > checking for readline/readline.h… yes > > checking for readline/history.h… yes > > checking for readline() in -lreadline… no > > > > The question is, where are the paths that ‘have\_library()’ is going to > > search? It is finding the header files but can’t seem to find the > > library (libreadline.a). ---
**Author:** ![HAL\_9000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/90ced4/32.png) [@HAL\_9000](https://rubytalk.org/u/HAL_9000)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 03:23 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/14 "2004-05-14T03:23:43Z")
Michael campbell wrote: > Jim Freeze wrote: > > > Matz has also said that you shouldn’t write an OO language in an OO > > language. > > Why not? I think it had something to do with the mismatch between the languages. Confusion between Ruby objects and C++ objects (which work differently) and all that. Easier to describe an OO language like Ruby procedurally. But IANYM. Hal ---
**Author:** ![James\_F\_Hranicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@James\_F\_Hranicky](https://rubytalk.org/u/James_F_Hranicky)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 15:34 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/15 "2004-05-14T15:34:58Z")
No, but those don’t affect the way the backend runs, right? I’m thinking that a pure ObjC backend would support native threads and be relatively fast, things desired out of Rite. I could be talking out of something other than my mouth, but I’d like to see someone who knows what their talking about give an informed opinion :-\> Jim > **···** > > On Sat, 15 May 2004 00:27:40 +0900 Aredridel [aredridel@nbtsc.org](mailto:aredridel@nbtsc.org) wrote: > > > > I brought this up a long time ago, but I don’t know if I brought it up well. > > > > > > I think it would be great if Ruby could be used as a frontend for the ObjC > > > runtime for GNUstep or OSX. Ruby Objects are just handles for ObjC objects. > > > > > > Ideally, any extension written in ObjC would automatically be available in > > > Ruby. > > > > Have you tried RIGS or ruby-cocoa? ---
**Author:** ![Ptkwt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f14d63/32.png) [@Ptkwt](https://rubytalk.org/u/Ptkwt)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 18:38 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/16 "2004-05-14T18:38:52Z")
In article [40A431B3.9060504@yahoo.com](mailto:40A431B3.9060504@yahoo.com), > **···** > > Michael campbell [michael\_s\_campbell@yahoo.com](mailto:michael_s_campbell@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > Jim Freeze wrote: > > > > > Matz has also said that you shouldn’t write an OO language in an OO > > > language. > > > > Why not? > > Maybe because the differences between the two object systems can get to be > confusing as you’re trying to implement a different object system on top > of another one. Maybe the implementation language’s object system would > have too much influence at a subconcious level. > > I can kind of see his point. > > Phil ---
**Author:** ![Nicholas\_Van\_Weerden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@Nicholas\_Van\_Weerden](https://rubytalk.org/u/Nicholas_Van_Weerden)\ **Post date:** [17 May 2004 02:56 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/17 "2004-05-17T02:56:37Z")
I downloaded a precompiled bundle from a web site and dropped it into my ruby lib according to instructions. I downloaded it from the site mentioned here: [http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/72433](http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/72433) I also tried building it according to a script in this email. The script was pretty cool, but didn’t work for me, so I just downloaded the bundle and followed the instructions. It’s worked great for me. Nick Stephen Steiner wrote: > **···** > > > I’m trying to install Ruby’s readline module on OS X and am having the > > following problem: > > > > When I run: > > > > ruby extconf.rb > > > > I get: > > > > checking for tgetnum() in -lncurses… yes > > checking for readline/readline.h… yes > > checking for readline/history.h… yes > > checking for readline() in -lreadline… no > > > > The question is, where are the paths that ‘have\_library()’ is going to > > search? It is finding the header files but can’t seem to find the > > library (libreadline.a). > > > > Thanks! > > > > Steve ---
**Author:** ![Stephen\_Steiner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Stephen\_Steiner](https://rubytalk.org/u/Stephen_Steiner)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 01:31 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/18 "2004-05-14T01:31:12Z")
Unfortunately, I often need the most recent builds of things and they are not usually supported by the DarwinPorts as far as I can tell. For example, I wanted to replace the Apple supplied Ruby with 1.8.1 but I wanted the ‘stable-snapshot’ instead of the release version. As far as I know, that would not be available using DarwinPorts. Steve > **···** > > On May 13, 2004, at 8:27 PM, Shu-yu Guo wrote: > > > On May 13, 2004, at 20:14, Stephen Steiner wrote: > > > > > The question is, where are the paths that ‘have\_library()’ is going > > > to search? It is finding the header files but can’t seem to find the > > > library (libreadline.a). > > > > It looks like that it adds CONFIG[‘libdir’] to -L. > > > > ## As a sidenote, perhaps it would be easier if you used a ports system to compile your Unix stuff, like DawrinPorts. It saves me a good deal of trouble. > > > > Lo-lee-ta: the tip of the tongue taking a trip of three > > steps down the palate to tap, at three, on the teeth. > > Lo. Lee. Ta. GUO Shu-yu [shu@rufuran.org](mailto:shu@rufuran.org) ---
**Author:** ![Ara.T.Howard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Ara.T.Howard](https://rubytalk.org/u/Ara.T.Howard)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 03:53 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/19 "2004-05-14T03:53:49Z")
‘IANYM’.gsub /.\*/, ?? -a > **···** > > On Fri, 14 May 2004, Hal Fulton wrote: > > > Michael campbell wrote: > > > > > Jim Freeze wrote: > > > > > > > Matz has also said that you shouldn’t write an OO language in an OO > > > > language. > > > > > > Why not? > > > > I think it had something to do with the mismatch between the languages. > > Confusion between Ruby objects and C++ objects (which work differently) > > and all that. > > > > Easier to describe an OO language like Ruby procedurally. But IANYM. > > # – > > > EMAIL :: Ara [dot] T [dot] Howard [at] noaa [dot] gov > > PHONE :: 303.497.6469 > > ADDRESS :: E/GC2 325 Broadway, Boulder, CO 80305-3328 > > URL :: [Solar-Terrestrial Physics Data | NCEI](http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/stp/) > > TRY :: for l in ruby perl;do $l -e “print "\x3a\x2d\x29\x0a"”;done > > =============================================================================== ---
**Author:** ![Aredridel1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Aredridel1](https://rubytalk.org/u/Aredridel1)\ **Post date:** [14 May 2004 15:51 UTC](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526/20 "2004-05-14T15:51:48Z")
> > Have you tried RIGS or ruby-cocoa? > > No, but those don’t affect the way the backend runs, right? I’m thinking > that a pure ObjC backend would support native threads and be relatively fast, > things desired out of Rite. Well, things written in ObjC appear as Ruby classes – it becomes a second backend of sorts. Ruby code is still run by the C interpeter, but it can call ObjC classes. > I could be talking out of something other than my mouth, but I’d like to see > someone who knows what their talking about give an informed opinion :-\> Rite or another implementation -could- be written in ObjC, and I’d love to see it happen. Portability to Windows is an issue, but I’m content there. There are some things in Ruby that don’t map to ObjC, so a backend that simply compiled Ruby to ObjC can’t happen: things like eval would have to invoke the compiler, and Ruby allows a few things (like adding member variables to classes at any time) that ObjC doesn’t. Ari [Next page](https://rubytalk.org/t/c-exception-compatibility-idea/11526.md?page=2)