At least one nasty person in your community

ruby-talk
1

Ok, I was going to say that although you’re not as wonderfully welcoming as
you think, you’re much better than the comp.lang.python community.

That was before one of your community chose to privately flame me with
profanities, statements that I had no honor, that I bring a cancer, get off
the “mailing list,” etc. To my US ear, he sounded foreign. I said he
should study up on the First Amendment if he wanted to understand US
concepts of “honor.”

This person’s action is far, far worse than what even my worst detractor in
comp.lang.python has said of me. Unless he’s an isolated crank, your
community has a serious attitude problem about what passes for acceptable
discourse and intellectual integrity.

···

–
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

“Troll” - (n.) Anything you don’t like.
Usage: “He’s just a troll.”

2

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

Ok, I was going to say that although you’re not as wonderfully welcoming as
you think, you’re much better than the comp.lang.python community.

Due to the length and verbosity of your whinges I would hazard a guess that
you seems to have this ‘less than wonderfully welcoming’ feeling quite often.
You seem too practiced in putting people right and setting them straight for
me to think that this is a one off.

If you need to tell people off everywhere you go then I would say…

THE PROBLEM IS YOU!

Excuse us whilst we get back to being part of a community, and it’s much
bigger than just us old Ruby programmers, there are Perl, Python, Java,
Smalltalk programmers here too, we are actually quite a tolerant lot until
someone comes along to put us straight.

Bye

3

Does one rude person a community make?

What should the community do about this, really? Unless we’re going to
try to police everyone who signs up for the list or posts to the newsgroup,
there’s not much we can do.

I’ve been on this list for 2 years, and it’s probably the most flame-free/
attitude-free list I’ve seen.

I think if you start posting questions about using the language you’ll get
a better feel for the community than you have so far.

$.02

···

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:08:57 +0900 “Brandon J. Van Every” vanevery@3DProgrammer.com wrote:

Ok, I was going to say that although you’re not as wonderfully welcoming as
you think, you’re much better than the comp.lang.python community.

That was before one of your community chose to privately flame me with
profanities, statements that I had no honor, that I bring a cancer, get off
the “mailing list,” etc. To my US ear, he sounded foreign. I said he
should study up on the First Amendment if he wanted to understand US
concepts of “honor.”

This person’s action is far, far worse than what even my worst detractor in
comp.lang.python has said of me. Unless he’s an isolated crank, your
community has a serious attitude problem about what passes for acceptable
discourse and intellectual integrity.

Jim Hranicky, Senior SysAdmin UF/CISE Department |
E314D CSE Building Phone (352) 392-1499 |
jfh@cise.ufl.edu http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~jfh |

                      About politics:
                 Don't worry about results
               It's the thought that counts
4

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

Ok, I was going to say that although you’re not as wonderfully welcoming as
you think, you’re much better than the comp.lang.python community.

That was before one of your community chose to privately flame me with
profanities, statements that I had no honor, that I bring a cancer, get off
the “mailing list,” etc. To my US ear, he sounded foreign. I said he
should study up on the First Amendment if he wanted to understand US
concepts of “honor.”

This person’s action is far, far worse than what even my worst detractor in
comp.lang.python has said of me. Unless he’s an isolated crank, your
community has a serious attitude problem about what passes for acceptable
discourse and intellectual integrity.

I hope no one else is fooled by an obvious troller. Please don’t
continue to banter with this guy. He’s only here to stir things up.
This is an old, old, old Usenet problem, and he’s lit up like a neon
sign he’s so obvious. Please see this guy for what he is and CEASE
responding to him.

Sean O'Dell
5

Peter Hickman wrote:

Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

Ok, I was going to say that although you’re not as wonderfully
welcoming as you think, you’re much better than the comp.lang.python
community.

Due to the length and verbosity of your whinges I would hazard a
guess that you seems to have this ‘less than wonderfully welcoming’
feeling quite often. You seem too practiced in putting people right
and setting them straight for me to think that this is a one off.

If you need to tell people off everywhere you go then I would say…

THE PROBLEM IS YOU!

No, it isn’t. You have a problem child. Direct quote time, since you don’t
believe easily. The following is indefensible, and inexcusible.

6

James F. Hranicky wrote:

Does one rude person a community make?

No, one crank does not a community make. My concern is, how many more of
them do you have?

What should the community do about this, really?

IMO, certain people should accept blame for being hostile to me in the first
place. All I ever did was open a contentious subject that some people were
tired of. I never said an ill word before ill words were spoken to me. And
my responses weren’t exactly over the top either. They were bristling, but
fair.

IMO, the other thing you should do as a community, is start recognizing that
you’re on a newsgroup, not a mailing list. I’ve seen collisions of mailing
list and newsgroup cultures happen before. Newsgroups always win.

Those are my recommendations, since you asked for courses of action. Of
course, coming from me, they won’t be heeded. But the ideas will float
around, and the next time hostilities arise with someone else, these
patterns may be remembered. Maybe then, someone will say, hm.

Unless we’re going to
try to police everyone who signs up for the list or posts to the
newsgroup, there’s not much we can do.

I did suggest that moderated newsgroups are excellent ideas.

I’ve been on this list for 2 years, and it’s probably the most
flame-free/ attitude-free list I’ve seen.

Well, I almost thought so. Until I got that crank, and then a followup
saying, “Well you deserve it!” No, I don’t. Not that kind of abuse, I’ve
done nothing to warrant it.

I think if you start posting questions about using the language
you’ll get a better feel for the community than you have so far.

I’ve got a feel. It’s pretty good. It can do a little better.

···

–
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.

7

Is it really a community without at least rude person? [cue Sesame
Street cast: “… but he’s our Grouch/and we’re stuck with him…”]

···

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:35:36 +0900, “James F. Hranicky” jfh@cise.ufl.edu wrote:

Does one rude person a community make?

8

Tim Rowe wrote:

···

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:35:36 +0900, “James F. Hranicky” > jfh@cise.ufl.edu wrote:

Does one rude person a community make?

Is it really a community without at least rude person? [cue Sesame
Street cast: “… but he’s our Grouch/and we’re stuck with him…”]

I dunno, I think your “grouch” is worthy of extremist talk show radio. I
see a lot of crestfallen expressions on the Sesame Street cast, before they
turn the can upside down and kick it repeatedly.

–
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.

9

Well, the above is inexcusable. However, how can one tell the source?
It could just as easily be from a member of the Python community who
monitors the Ruby list. Regardless of the source, the message is from
one person, not from the participants on the Ruby mailing list.

Regards,

Mark

···

On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 12:29 PM, Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

[snip]

No, it isn’t. You have a problem child. Direct quote time, since you
don’t
believe easily. The following is indefensible, and inexcusible.