[ANN] Forthcoming 2nd ed. of _The Ruby Way_

Phil Tomson wrote:

I especially like chapter 5 (OOP and Dynamicity in Ruby) in the current
edition of TRW. I hope that perhaps a similar chapter on metaprogramming can
be added.

I also especially like chapter 5. Definitely a chapter on
metaprogramming! I like the idea of advanced topics especially those
things are easily done in a dynamically typed language and difficult in
staticly typed languages. But I like the library coverage as well.
Write both and I'll buy both : ) If it's available in early access,
I'll buy that too!

Willing to put my money where my mouth is,

Gary Blomquist

Gene Tani wrote:

"100 pages deleted": does this mean Rb vs. perl/python sections are
expendable? I can understand, these entail a *lot* of research, &
recently there's been an explosion of R vs. p/p/java/smalltalk/lisp
blogs which can be collected on 'Ruby eye for python guy' or some
wiki.

Probably so. Those were longer than I intended in the first place.
To rewrite them would require time and effort (and help, since my
Perl is weak and my Python weaker).

The part of Way r.1 that's most valuable to me today is the "Things to
remember" list on pages 45+

I'm glad it was useful, but <sigh> I dread having to update it.

Hal

Joe Van Dyk wrote:

···

On 12/14/05, Tanner Burson <tanner.burson@gmail.com> wrote:

At least a small section on Rake would be excellent.

I think it's under consideration, considering that Rake is in that
'keyword soup'.

Yep, should have alphabetized it. But then it wouldn't be soup,
would it? :slight_smile:

Hal

"There's a message in my AlphaBits! It says, 'OOOOOO'!"
"Those are CheeriOs."
             -- _Family Guy_

Make that a Pickaxe-2-style-beta-book and I'm signing up right away :slight_smile:

···

On 15 déc. 05, at 01:34, Jeff Wood wrote:

... Please be sure to provide it in PDF form... That's how I have my
current edition and I really appreciate it.

--
Luc Heinrich - luc@honk-honk.com - http://www.honk-honk.com

Hal Fulton wrote:

Let me clarify, though, lest anyone misunderstand -- not all of
these topics will be covered in depth. Depending on time and
pages and so on, some may barely be mentioned.

There's more to a book than a list of topics. What about depth,
starting point, assumptions of reader ability, reference vs learning
model (see Kathy Sierra's blog), inclusion of tutorials, examples,
exercises...

(Thanks as ever to the random sig generator for an entirely
appropriate one...)

···

--
Chris Game

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
    -- Albert Einstein

I bought your first book. Loved it.

I'm anxious to see the 100 pages you plan on deleting. Always good to know
the things to unlearn too.

Brian

Can you use the community? Together we know a fair amount. :wink:

James Edward Gray II

···

On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:59 PM, Hal Fulton wrote:

That's one reason I want assistance in prioritizing things. In addition,
some of these I know little about, and will have to learn within the
next ninety days or so, or just skip them.

I agree with the other poster about the expectations the title creates. I readed the book and was useful for me because i was learning, practical issues are addressed, and you are exposed to idiomatic Ruby. But I would expect it to evolve to explain "The Ruby Way" of programming, so my vote goes there.

Explaining libraries and toolkits is certainly useful, but a topic for a different book in my opinion.

-- fxn

···

On Dec 15, 2005, at 15:17, Doug H wrote:

I'd recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using ruby to
develop _applications_, not to learn programming for programming's
sake.

Doug H wrote:

I'd recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using ruby to
develop _applications_, not to learn programming for programming's
sake.

Coding applications in Ruby without taking full advantage of what makes
Ruby Ruby is like walking up a hill backwards. You'll get where you
want to go, but it could be so much nicer.

A guide to libraries would be handy, but indeed many are ephemeral or in
flux, and learning a set of distinct APIs for one thing or another is no
substitute for a proper understanding of Ruby itself.

It's the difference between being a [application|library] scripter and a Ruby programmer.

James

···

--

http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
Ruby Code & Style - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools

Is that the plan? Seemed to work well for the Rails book. I'd
definitely buy a beta copy in PDF form (now) for a hard copy final
edition later.

···

On 12/15/05, GJB <gjblomquist@hotmail.com> wrote:

If it's available in early access,
I'll buy that too!

--
Greg Donald
Zend Certified Engineer
MySQL Core Certification
http://destiney.com/

In article <31ca39f70512150542n12c25973o@mail.gmail.com>,

···

Takashi Sano <tksano@gmail.com> wrote:

My 2 yen for all the above.

To add the list, I would like to see a chapter or section on interface
- what is and how to create clean API in ruby.

that's a great idea. And perhaps a section in that chapter on creating
plug-in architectures.

Phil

In article <1134655968.140192.205720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,

···

Doug H <doug00@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using ruby to
develop _applications_, not to learn programming for programming's
sake.

I'm not necessarily talking about 'learning programming for programming's
sake' (though, personally I see nothing wrong with that and I hope to see a
good bit of that in there :). I'm talking about
learning advanced Ruby programming techniques that will help you develop those
applications/APIs/Frameworks that you want to develop.

Phil

Jack Christensen wrote:

Phil Tomson wrote:

I really like "The Ruby Way"; I would like to see it move more in the direction of "The Ruby Way: Advanced Ruby Programming Techniques" or something like that... as opposed to "The Ruby Way: A brief look at lots of libraries(many of which will be obsolete by this time next year)".

Phil

+1. I'd also be much more interested in pure, advanced Ruby rather than specifics of this or that library.

I answered Phil in email, but I'll answer briefly here also.

What you say is compelling, but the fundamental style of the book
isn't going to change that much. There will be some coverage of
advanced techniques (as well as elementary techniques).

There will definitely be material added in the "more advanced"
sections. Some material will be deleted, but mostly because it is
boring, not because it is too elementary.

Coverage of specific libraries will be incomplete, and will occupy
the minority of the book. But this material will still be there.

Sorry if this disappoints. It's a design decision.

Hal

Joe Van Dyk wrote:
>>At least a small section on Rake would be excellent.
>
> I think it's under consideration, considering that Rake is in that
> 'keyword soup'.

Yep, should have alphabetized it. But then it wouldn't be soup,
would it? :slight_smile:

Sure it would. It would be alphabet soup :wink:

Any chance of it following the prag prog's beta book release method?

Either way, looking forward to it.

···

On 12/14/05, Hal Fulton <hal9000@hypermetrics.com> wrote:

> On 12/14/05, Tanner Burson <tanner.burson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hal

"There's a message in my AlphaBits! It says, 'OOOOOO'!"
"Those are CheeriOs."
             -- _Family Guy_

--
Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)

Hal Fulton wrote:

Joe Van Dyk wrote:

At least a small section on Rake would be excellent.

I think it's under consideration, considering that Rake is in that
'keyword soup'.

Yep, should have alphabetized it. But then it wouldn't be soup,
would it? :slight_smile:

First, one more congratulatory note: congrats! :slight_smile:

The few exciting and very soupy technologies I could
think of off-hand are SCGI, RubyScript2Exe and the
whole ParseTree/Ruby2C cadre.

A footnote of such alternatives as Rant and Wee might
be well-received, too!

Hal

"There's a message in my AlphaBits! It says, 'OOOOOO'!"
"Those are CheeriOs."
             -- _Family Guy_

*Dashes off to purchase season 3*

E

···

On 12/14/05, Tanner Burson <tanner.burson@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/\.

'The Ruby Way' handles metaprogramming and other advanced topics in a
very cursory manner. More than half of The Ruby Way was concerned with
Ruby's libraries. But many of you seem to expect the second edition to
completely shift it's focus. I don't know how that's going to happen
just by ripping out 100 pages and adding 250 pages considering all the
new stuff from that keyword soup is going in.

Aren't there "Advanced Ruby" books in japanese that could be
translated? I've been hoping for a long time someone would translate
that "Ruby Internals" book and others like it. But all I see is
another cookbook from O'Reilly and a bunch of Rails books. There's a
huge market here. I, for example, would buy any book that says
"Advanced Ruby" on the cover (without even bothering to open the book
and check out the contents) :slight_smile:

···

On 12/15/05, James Britt <james_b@neurogami.com> wrote:

Coding applications in Ruby without taking full advantage of what makes
Ruby Ruby is like walking up a hill backwards. You'll get where you
want to go, but it could be so much nicer.

A guide to libraries would be handy, but indeed many are ephemeral or in
flux, and learning a set of distinct APIs for one thing or another is no
substitute for a proper understanding of Ruby itself.

It's the difference between being a [application|library] scripter and a
Ruby programmer.

--
gavri

In article <46C203DE-947D-4A5C-A31B-26E68FB9F060@hashref.com>,

···

Xavier Noria <fxn@hashref.com> wrote:

On Dec 15, 2005, at 15:17, Doug H wrote:

I'd recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using
ruby to
develop _applications_, not to learn programming for programming's
sake.

I agree with the other poster about the expectations the title
creates. I readed the book and was useful for me because i was
learning, practical issues are addressed, and you are exposed to
idiomatic Ruby. But I would expect it to evolve to explain "The Ruby
Way" of programming, so my vote goes there.

Explaining libraries and toolkits is certainly useful, but a topic
for a different book in my opinion.

Exactly, or different little books like the Pragmatic folks are doing. GUI
toolkits, for example, should be covered in those kinds of little books (50 to
100 pages). "The Pocket Book of Ruby/(Tk|Qt|gtk|...)"

Phil

Phil Tomson wrote:

In article <31ca39f70512150542n12c25973o@mail.gmail.com>,

My 2 yen for all the above.

To add the list, I would like to see a chapter or section on interface
- what is and how to create clean API in ruby.

that's a great idea. And perhaps a section in that chapter on creating plug-in architectures.

You know this book will end up longer than TAOCP.

Then we'll all be pestering Hal for volume 4.

James

···

Takashi Sano <tksano@gmail.com> wrote:

--

http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
Ruby Code & Style - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools

James Edward Gray II wrote:

That's one reason I want assistance in prioritizing things. In addition,
some of these I know little about, and will have to learn within the
next ninety days or so, or just skip them.

Can you use the community? Together we know a fair amount. :wink:

:slight_smile: That's an understatement.

I'm using the community already. I knew that the announcement itself
would be followed by opinions expressed.

And I'll have questions as I go along. Believe me.

My experience is:
   - Study, and you think you know something.
   - Study harder, and you think are good at it.
   - Use your knowledge, and you learn even more.
   - Teach it, and you will learn still more.
   - Write a book, and you will realize how little
     you really know.

Hal

···

On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:59 PM, Hal Fulton wrote:

Brian Buckley wrote:

I bought your first book. Loved it.

I'm anxious to see the 100 pages you plan on deleting. Always good to know
the things to unlearn too.

:wink: There's not terribly much to unlearn. Some things that I showed how to
do are now part of the core (such as hyperbolic trig, base conversions, etc.).
Other things are just silly or irrelevant. Sometimes there is now a "better
way" to do things.

To find all the changes, you'd need the old TOC, the new TOC, and a long
rainy Saturday. :slight_smile:

Hal